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small acoustic or digital
#2895591 09/29/19 02:30 PM
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Hello,

I'm new on this forum. I'm doing a lot of music, though not as my bread and butter profession.

After decades of not playing piano I decided I would want to explore it again. Im trying to make my mind up between a small acoustic and digital.

I need a decent room sound; it doesn't matter, how well it could possibly sound if recorded directly or listened to through headphones; it should be able to cut through when playing together with cello, flute or saxophone.

My problem is that the room I need it in is not so big, and it would be difficult to put in a full sized acoustic piano...

Your ideas are very much appreciated...

best wishes
Robert

Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2895593 09/29/19 02:39 PM
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Welcome to PianoWorld Rojarosguitar!

What is your budget?

For the small room you describe a hybrid piano such as an AvantGrand or Novus would be an excellent choice. I would definitely recommend trying one during your piano search.

Last edited by JJHLH; 09/29/19 02:42 PM.

Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2895601 09/29/19 03:22 PM
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Thanks for the quick answer. Novus 10 is to deep, Novus 5 too tall smile Both qre a bit over my budget.

I'll look into AvantGrand ...
best
Robert

Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2895603 09/29/19 03:28 PM
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What are the dimensions of your room?


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

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Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2895695 09/29/19 09:05 PM
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Yamaha's CP line offers several instruments you might enjoy on the digital side especially if you're open to a stage piano style, rather than home style (console) model. You might look at the CP4, CP33, or CP300. These have the Yamaha Graded Hammer Action. It feels pretty good, and I'm a die-hard acoustic piano fan. I own a Steinway model B in addition to my Yamaha CP300. The action is close, and it is powerful.

IMHO, you might occasionally run across a great deal on an acoustic piano on a small budget, but more often then not, a digital is a better option, especially if your budget is less than say $10k USD. Finding the real deals on a acoustic piano on a tight budget takes a lot of shopping of all sources (dealers, ads, private individuals). Then there's the process of having the instrument inspects by a qualified technician. It can take some time, whether your looking at a concert grand or a spinet.

Last edited by GC13; 09/29/19 09:07 PM.
Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2895703 09/29/19 09:38 PM
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I'd look at the Roland LX706. It's not madly expensive in Germany.

Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2895867 09/30/19 12:02 PM
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Today I looked at Yamaha CLP 675 and Kawai CA78 and CA97. All of them feel quite good and sound good, with a slight preference for the CA 78 from my side. Yamaha feels a bit stiffer and slower under the fingers (and my fingers are not totally untrained being a classical guitar and also saxophone playser...). I need to go once again and do a reality check...

Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896013 10/01/19 03:14 AM
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I got a bit sceptical whether those pianos wouldn't require too much real estate in my music room ... I started to consider a stage piano. I'd love to have one with the same sound and keyboard as CA78. Is there something lik that on the market? What are your recommendations?

And what would be the adequate amplification? Thanks for advice
Robert

Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896023 10/01/19 04:38 AM
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The most obvious candidate is the Kawai MP11SE.

Last edited by johnstaf; 10/01/19 04:39 AM.
Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896032 10/01/19 05:23 AM
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For a relatively light and relatively cheap quality piano I would also recommend you look at the Kawai ES8 - I loved mine.

Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896033 10/01/19 05:24 AM
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Well loved may be a bit of an embellishment - I kind of hated it in the end but only because I was yearning to go back to acoustic - for a DP it's great.

Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896048 10/01/19 07:36 AM
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If I had the choice between a digital and an acoustic and had the funds and ability to house an acoustic I would always, always, always choose the acoustic over a digital. Playing in an acoustic is such a real, organic, moving, transcendental experience compared to a digital that for me it's a no brainer. But if you MUST use a digital like I do during weekdays and you can accept the fact that they are by definition "fake" instruments that invariably suck the life out of the music you are playing then they are otherwise useful practice tools.

Of course, opinions may vary...


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896057 10/01/19 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Rojarosguitar
Hello,

I'm new on this forum. I'm doing a lot of music, though not as my bread and butter profession.

After decades of not playing piano I decided I would want to explore it again. Im trying to make my mind up between a small acoustic and digital.

I need a decent room sound; it doesn't matter, how well it could possibly sound if recorded directly or listened to through headphones; it should be able to cut through when playing together with cello, flute or saxophone.

My problem is that the room I need it in is not so big, and it would be difficult to put in a full sized acoustic piano...

Your ideas are very much appreciated...

best wishes
Robert

With acoustic pianos - they all take about the same space, whether a small upright or a large one (assuming it isn't a lumbering antique). We used to quote 5' x 5' including the bench. A Digital is the same width, possibly saving a small amount of depth - and digitals usually only come with a very basic bench - which I'd suggest immediately tossing out and getting a proper one.

Sound - through good headphones can be good, average headphones - less so. But if you want to project into the room, a proper piano soundboard will cut through much better than the speakers of a digital, unless it's played through some serious speaker/amplifiers.

An additional difference - a piano feels like a piano - play louder and it make more sound, softer - less sound. A digital can be deceptive with practising, as it's got a volume knob - and I've had people who practised on a digital and have to play an acoustic, and discover that their technique is inadequate for a real piano. There are workaround for it, but something to keep in mine.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896064 10/01/19 08:24 AM
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If you’re not absolutely yearning for an acoustic piano yet and have a small budget and small music room, it might be better to get a quality digital stage piano with great speakers and quality headphones for now. Digitals seem to depreciate faster than acoustics and you could find a kick butt used keyboard speakers and a close out sale on last year’s stage piano. Get yourself a sturdy stage stand that can be raised or lowered to the most comfortable height and a adjustable digital piano bench and you’d be set. Recommendations for digitals and prices paid for digitals are posted in the Digital piano and synth forum. For me, my digital is my silent practice piano. In comparison to playing my C3, playing the digital is rather unfulfilling but it works nicely. If I were to join a band it’s significantly easier lugging a 26 lb stage piano with case, stand, and speakers than a 600+ lb grand piano.
Perhaps further down the road, with a bit bigger budget and bigger music room, you can venture into the fabulous world of acoustic pianos. Many people on the Digital Forum are quite happy staying with digital. They never need tuning, voicing or regulation. If something breaks on a recent model digital it’s almost always cheaper and easier to fix. Both the Yamaha and Kawai dealers carry digitals, hybrids and acoustic pianos and I was able to compare all three types of pianos. So best of luck with whatever you decide.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896068 10/01/19 08:30 AM
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When you compare these DP’s, also play some used upright acoustic pianos in the store. Get an idea of what you are giving up compared to what you are getting in a DP. You may have to look around, but you can get a nice used “real piano” for the cost of a medium quality DP.



Kawai NV10
Re: small acoustic or digital
Jethro #2896095 10/01/19 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jethro
If I had the choice between a digital and an acoustic and had the funds and ability to house an acoustic I would always, always, always choose the acoustic over a digital. Playing in an acoustic is such a real, organic, moving, transcendental experience compared to a digital that for me it's a no brainer. But if you MUST use a digital like I do during weekdays and you can accept the fact that they are by definition "fake" instruments that invariably suck the life out of the music you are playing then they are otherwise useful practice tools.
Far too extreme an opinion, I think.

I think for a significant majority the relative quality of the digital/ hybrid vs. the acoustic would determine which they preferred. I think for most pianists playing an old and/or low quality and/or short acoustic vertical is not a transcendental experience compared to an excellent digital or even better, an excellent hybrid.

Re: small acoustic or digital
pianoloverus #2896103 10/01/19 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Jethro
If I had the choice between a digital and an acoustic and had the funds and ability to house an acoustic I would always, always, always choose the acoustic over a digital. Playing in an acoustic is such a real, organic, moving, transcendental experience compared to a digital that for me it's a no brainer. But if you MUST use a digital like I do during weekdays and you can accept the fact that they are by definition "fake" instruments that invariably suck the life out of the music you are playing then they are otherwise useful practice tools.
Far too extreme an opinion, I think.

I think for a significant majority the relative quality of the digital/ hybrid vs. the acoustic would determine which they preferred. I think for most pianists playing an old and/or low quality and/or short acoustic vertical is not a transcendental experience compared to an excellent digital or even better, an excellent hybrid.


+1.

The best advice for the OP is to try a lot of different pianos himself and make his own well-informed decision.


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: small acoustic or digital
Rojarosguitar #2896156 10/01/19 12:11 PM
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Thanks a lot for all your opinions and advices.
I definitely would love to have a good acoustic upright or even grand piano, but neither my space nor my finances permit for either of them. Even fitting a digital will be tight in my music room in the basement, but at least it's light enough to be shifted within the room according to what is needed. Also the temperatures in the room are varying more strongly than usual in a living room, so I guess I'd have to tune an acoustic more frequently. So something digital it will be.

I kind of dismissed the idea of a stage piano, because I'm not going on stage with it and it will complicate more than it will help. So I guess it will be a standalone solution... I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.
best
Robert

Re: small acoustic or digital
JJHLH #2896198 10/01/19 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Jethro
If I had the choice between a digital and an acoustic and had the funds and ability to house an acoustic I would always, always, always choose the acoustic over a digital. Playing in an acoustic is such a real, organic, moving, transcendental experience compared to a digital that for me it's a no brainer. But if you MUST use a digital like I do during weekdays and you can accept the fact that they are by definition "fake" instruments that invariably suck the life out of the music you are playing then they are otherwise useful practice tools.
Far too extreme an opinion, I think.

I think for a significant majority the relative quality of the digital/ hybrid vs. the acoustic would determine which they preferred. I think for most pianists playing an old and/or low quality and/or short acoustic vertical is not a transcendental experience compared to an excellent digital or even better, an excellent hybrid.


+1.

The best advice for the OP is to try a lot of different pianos himself and make his own well-informed decision.

+2
Even though I’m a die hard acoustic piano fan, with limited budget and small music room sharing space with other instruments, sometimes a digital piano is the best choice. I’d much rather live with my Casio than be forced to use an old poorly built spinet just this side of serious restoration costs.

The only bad thing of playing only digital is my technique slides downhill. I get lazy and sloppy. But that’s me. To me and it’s just my opinion, playing acoustic fast and accurately is decidedly more difficult.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: small acoustic or digital
j&j #2896200 10/01/19 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Jethro
If I had the choice between a digital and an acoustic and had the funds and ability to house an acoustic I would always, always, always choose the acoustic over a digital. Playing in an acoustic is such a real, organic, moving, transcendental experience compared to a digital that for me it's a no brainer. But if you MUST use a digital like I do during weekdays and you can accept the fact that they are by definition "fake" instruments that invariably suck the life out of the music you are playing then they are otherwise useful practice tools.
Far too extreme an opinion, I think.

I think for a significant majority the relative quality of the digital/ hybrid vs. the acoustic would determine which they preferred. I think for most pianists playing an old and/or low quality and/or short acoustic vertical is not a transcendental experience compared to an excellent digital or even better, an excellent hybrid.


+1.

The best advice for the OP is to try a lot of different pianos himself and make his own well-informed decision.

+2
Even though I’m a die hard acoustic piano fan, with limited budget and small music room sharing space with other instruments, sometimes a digital piano is the best choice. I’d much rather live with my Casio than be forced to use an old poorly built spinet just this side of serious restoration costs.

+3

Sometimes even dog food is an acceptable alternative, but with a little bit of salt who can really tell the difference?

Last edited by Jethro; 10/01/19 03:03 PM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
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