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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Well as long as Steinway can rebuild a piano with a Spirio, then in the end it really doesn't matter how they do it, does it?


I doubt that they would rebuild a DuoArt with a Spirio, although it is probably possible. But then, Steinway did not build the DuoArts.


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BDB? In the digital forum? Mark the calendar. This is a rarity. Perhaps a first?

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello Cynthia,

It's perhaps worth noting that I work for Kawai, however I don't believe it's fair to criticise Roland's customer support based on your experience.

Also, I personally do not appreciate the way customers use internet forums as a means to draw negative attention toward a particular company.

With regards to your specific case, it's unfortunate that the instrument is no longer functioning, however given the age of the product, it's not uncommon for components to begin failing.
If you are certain that the main board is the cause of the problem, and that the replacement board is also non-functioning, the next step might be to look online for a second hand KR-1077 that could be used for spare parts to fix your instrument.

I believe digital piano technology has progressed considerably in the last 20 years or so, therefore my suggestion would be to invest in a new instrument that you can enjoy with your grandchildren.

Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
x


Well I don't work for Roland anymore....but I don't have enough finger, toes, teeth and time to type, to relate all the times a "qualified technician" made us look bad...

I don't know how it worked in this situation, but in the case of a warranty repair, the techs are typically contractors, who get paid to do the service cal, labour etc by Roland, which would be below the price they would get doing it for themselves....So it was often a struggle to get them to go get stuff done in a timely manner. Often I'd find myself cleaning up a mess of poor communication, lacklustre customer service, and even occasionally half truths...

On non warranty stuff, not going through Roland can be a nightmare. For instruments of that age....having parts READILY at hand is VERY rare. A 20 year mainboard being available is an anomaly. Not at all the norm. Roland is one of the best at keeping spares for old stuff around, but that's a stretch...5 months to get it, is a LONG time, but considering what it was....I am not the least bit surprised.

All in all this sounds like some broken telephone happened. But defending my former employer, I don't think that they can possibly have really any culpability here...

Jay


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Originally Posted by JayGVan
On non warranty stuff, not going through Roland can be a nightmare.

How does one "go through" Roland for non-warranty stuff, then? What does a customer do to go through Roland for non-warranty service?


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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JayGVan
On non warranty stuff, not going through Roland can be a nightmare.

How does one "go through" Roland for non-warranty stuff, then? What does a customer do to go through Roland for non-warranty service?

If it's anything like my experience with Kawai, you call them, and a human picks up the phone. You tell them what you need, they send you an inventory and price list if needed, and you give them your credit card number and shipping address.

3 days later, your part flies over fence and into your front yard because the UPS guy can't be bothered to get out of his truck to bring it to your front door smile


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JayGVan
On non warranty stuff, not going through Roland can be a nightmare.

How does one "go through" Roland for non-warranty stuff, then? What does a customer do to go through Roland for non-warranty service?

If it's anything like my experience with Kawai, you call them, and a human picks up the phone. You tell them what you need, they send you an inventory and price list if needed, and you give them your credit card number and shipping address.

3 days later, your part flies over fence and into your front yard because the UPS guy can't be bothered to get out of his truck to bring it to your front door smile

So you're saying, do it in parallel with working with the technician? Don't let the technician order the parts for you. Order them yourself?


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JayGVan
On non warranty stuff, not going through Roland can be a nightmare.

How does one "go through" Roland for non-warranty stuff, then? What does a customer do to go through Roland for non-warranty service?


Roland has factory service centers over a good chunk of the world. They have a network of technicians for home service where needed. Starting with a telephone call or an email to the local service centre, and getting advice from them is the way to start.

Roland will fix, wherever possible, their own gear to factory standard...whether inside or outside the warranty period. Contracted technicians are typically vetted, but many situations vary...and there are literally three sides to every story. And the third, somewhere in between is usually the truth...

Jay


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I've ordered parts from Yamaha. Twice. It's quite easy. And I'm sure my warranty tech had a similarly easy time of it.

And it seems to be likewise with Kawai ...
Originally Posted by Gombessa
If it's anything like my experience with Kawai, you call them, and a human picks up the phone. You tell them what you need, they send you an inventory and price list if needed, and you give them your credit card number and shipping address.

If it's not that way at Roland ... for shame.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've ordered parts from Yamaha. Twice. It's quite easy. And I'm sure my warranty tech had a similarly easy time of it.

And it seems to be likewise with Kawai ...
Originally Posted by Gombessa
If it's anything like my experience with Kawai, you call them, and a human picks up the phone. You tell them what you need, they send you an inventory and price list if needed, and you give them your credit card number and shipping address.

If it's not that way at Roland ... for shame.


Our parts dept used to ship tons of parts to techs, end users, stores, etc...all the time. A phone call and a credit card was all it usually took.

The old old old stuff was sometimes troublesome, but I was quite often blown away by the obscurity of the request, and hearing the parts guy on the phone saying, "Yup, I have that in stock and can get it out today"

Can't speak for the whole world. Only my experience.

Warranty and Non warranty service is best handled through the manufacturer wherever possible. That's been both my personal and professional experience.

Jay


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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

So you're saying, do it in parallel with working with the technician? Don't let the technician order the parts for you. Order them yourself?


The quality of the abilities, and customer service skills of some of those technicians varies more widely than the Grand Canyon in my experience.

Jay

Last edited by JayGVan; 09/27/19 06:53 PM.

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James, I agree with you its not always the organizations fault for poor customer service. I have run into poor customer service at different companies, I do not immediately take that as being a corporate issue. It could very well be an employee issue. Unless the organization knows the issues related to the customer experience and who the employee or contracting agency was it may be difficult to correct. I once had an issue with UPS telling me my item should have gone by freight and refused to deliver it, even though I paid for delivery. This was an employee issue. It was shipped UPS from another state by the seller to me. I asked for the regional manager and the issue was rectified. I also wrote a letter to the CEO and sent it certified mail. I received a call from center manager who provided me with a direct contact should I have an issues in the future.

I once was humiliated by a large chain grocery store clerk when I went through the self check out line. I asked for the sale price when the item rang up wrong, and the clerk (new) accused me of lying to him about the sale price, before he even looked. I called the manager the next day, I have been shopping there over 20 years.

Poor customer service reflects on the organization and if leadership does not address the issue it will negatively impact sales. However, leadership needs to know the issues to correct.

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Originally Posted by LarryK
That is a sad story. I can't stand such cruelty in people.

Yes, very cruel. Basically a common thief. You can't imagine how many times I pictured myself bloodying his mocking, bully face. But I stopped worrying about it. Life goes on and people lose heirlooms all the time, sometimes for silly reasons. My wife doesn't have a good memory and so I doubt she even remembers it as well, but of course with my memory, I remember every detail she told me that day... I never remind her of it though since getting her the Mont Blanc. Never.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
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Originally Posted by JayGVan


Roland has factory service centers over a good chunk of the world. They have a network of technicians for home service where needed. Starting with a telephone call or an email to the local service centre, and getting advice from them is the way to start.


The Swansea centre doesn't have a phone no on their website and you cannot just email them without first creating an account. I used to be able to email one of them but even that is now disallowed.


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Originally Posted by JayGVan
But defending my former employer, I don't think that they can possibly have really any culpability here...

Sorry, but that is utter B.S.

You are forgiven though because it is your former employer, nostalgia being what it is. wink

Originally Posted by Colin Miles
The Swansea centre doesn't have a phone no on their website and you cannot just email them without first creating an account. I used to be able to email one of them but even that is now disallowed.

[sarcasm-on] I'm sure that this change was made to improve customer service levels and responsiveness [/sarcasm-off]


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
The Swansea centre doesn't have a phone no on their website and you cannot just email them without first creating an account. I used to be able to email one of them but even that is now disallowed.
[sarcasm-on] I'm sure that this change was made to improve customer service levels and responsiveness [/sarcasm-off]

Personally, I am relieved that Roland appears to have no interest in very high-end digitals (e.g. hybrids). Then I don't have to argue with myself about whether or not I should risk buying a product and having no service.

BTW, I did manage to get through to a call centre once, for a warranty repair on my FP30. I suspected the external power supply had died even though I only had the DP for just over 6 months. Roland asked me to send the entire DP into the service center for repair and told me it would take a few weeks. I insisted it was the power supply and could they send me a new one and they refused. So instead of using the warranty service, I went on Amazon.com and bought a new Roland-brand power supply myself for about $30. FP30 worked again, right as rain afterwards, as I thought it would. Yet another strike against them in my book. What the customer says matters zero to their customer support people. Again, sample of one here, but they don't give us an customer service statistics so we just have to believe what we ourselves experience.

BTW, I later read that having the external power supply die is not an uncommon thing for Roland equipment. It may be that the quality control on those external power supplies is wanting.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Personally, I am relieved that Roland appears to have no interest in very high-end digitals (e.g. hybrids). Then I don't have to argue with myself about whether or not I should risk buying a product and having no service.


As far as I am aware Roland have never made acoustics so on a strict definition of hybrids they never could make them.

But I am not even sure they have the marketing gumption to properly sell their LX706/708 range. I live near their Swansea distribution centre but the nearest stockist which actually have them in stock so that you can try them out is 155 miles away! I even tried Rimmers in Edinburgh when I was up their recently but they are mainly Yamaha and Kawai and only keep Roland in their warehouse. My dealer used to be a distributor but has given up on them as the numbers don't stack up. The other dealer nearby has recently become a Roland stockist but only sells the up to the 705 - and to judge from his comments and their website, I think they are regretting it.

As far as service is concerned I think they suffer from what I call the Japanese syndrome that their products do not go wrong so no need for after sales. And I think by and large they are reliable, after all 20 years is good for an electronic instrument - no doubt there will now be those who disagree.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
That is a sad story. I can't stand such cruelty in people.

Yes, very cruel. Basically a common thief. You can't imagine how many times I pictured myself bloodying his mocking, bully face. But I stopped worrying about it. Life goes on and people lose heirlooms all the time, sometimes for silly reasons. My wife doesn't have a good memory and so I doubt she even remembers it as well, but of course with my memory, I remember every detail she told me that day... I never remind her of it though since getting her the Mont Blanc. Never.


Forgetting is a way of forgiving. Do any of us get through this life without being wronged? I have my own list of of people who have cheated me, some I have forgotten, some I struggle to forget. It depends on the length of time since the event occurred. I try to find solace in this wonderful poem:

Gift
Czesław Miłosz


A day so happy.
Fog lifted early, I worked in the garden.
Hummingbirds were stopping over honeysuckle flowers.
There was no thing on earth I wanted to possess.
I knew no one worth my envying him.
Whatever evil I had suffered, I forgot.
To think that once I was the same man did not embarrass me.
In my body I felt no pain.
When straightening up, I saw the blue sea and sails.

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Originally Posted by LarryK
Forgetting is a way of forgiving. Do any of us get through this life without being wronged? I have my own list of of people who have cheated me, some I have forgotten, some I struggle to forget. It depends on the length of time since the event occurred. I try to find solace in this wonderful poem:

Gift
Czesław Miłosz

A day so happy.
Fog lifted early, I worked in the garden.
Hummingbirds were stopping over honeysuckle flowers.
There was no thing on earth I wanted to possess.
I knew no one worth my envying him.
Whatever evil I had suffered, I forgot.
To think that once I was the same man did not embarrass me.
In my body I felt no pain.
When straightening up, I saw the blue sea and sails.

Wise words. Thanks for the poem!


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Personally, I am relieved that Roland appears to have no interest in very high-end digitals (e.g. hybrids). Then I don't have to argue with myself about whether or not I should risk buying a product and having no service.


As far as I am aware Roland have never made acoustics so on a strict definition of hybrids they never could make them.

There are manufacturers of keyboards such as Dexibell, who haven't made keyboard actions, so they use those of others. For example, Nord has recently used a Kawai keyboard action. If a manufacturer wanted to use a real authentic acoustical piano action, I think they could do it through a partnership with another company. Not saying Roland, Casio for that matter, will necessarily do that, but it could happen. For example, Casio did make a deal with Bechstein, though not for their keyboard action.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JayGVan
But defending my former employer, I don't think that they can possibly have really any culpability here...

Sorry, but that is utter B.S.

You are forgiven though because it is your former employer, nostalgia being what it is. wink


Ok, you're entitled to your opinion. But this customer went through a third party tech, and without one of us sitting in the chair of the person that fielded the inquiry, that MAYBE went to Roland, none of us can say for sure either way, that Roland had ANY involvement in this at all.

So while I agree that this customer received very poor customer support, I wouldn't put this at Roland's feet without knowing MUCH more of the story.

Jay


Last edited by JayGVan; 09/29/19 07:24 PM.

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