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I would have been interested in any correlation between those results and the average those subject slept a night. That is, what is normal? Because for me, normal is about 5 hours. It's when I consistently drop below this that I start to feel sleep deprived. Fewer than 6 hrs / night can be associated with increased risk of dementia. . The relative risk is 1.53x that of a longer sleep duration. This is due to an accumulation of Beta amyloid, which is cleared during sleep. More and more research is emerging on this topic. #dementiaprevention
Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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This is not the first time I have read about that connection. Thanks for the link. I have sleep issues and do make an effort to deal with them as best i can. I also don't think it excludes people who function well with little sleep, which doesn't include me. It hasn’t been shown to be the case that people who “need less sleep†are not at risk of this phenomenon. There are many ways of trying to improve your sleep if you suffer from insomnia. Briefly, they include avoiding stimulation within a couple hours of bedtime, including tv and monitors other screens, minimizing caffeine hours before bedtime (although some people are affected more than others), avoiding alcohol (which can make you fall asleep but not sleep well and awaken early), getting exercise, avoiding too much fluid that can make you have to get up to urinate in the middle of the night, etc. Sex can help. Whatever you do, don’t use Ambien.
Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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It hasn’t been shown to be the case that people who “need less sleep†are not at risk of this phenomenon. There are many ways of trying to improve your sleep if you suffer from insomnia. Briefly, they include avoiding stimulation within a couple hours of bedtime, including tv and monitors other screens, minimizing caffeine hours before bedtime (although some people are affected more than others), avoiding alcohol (which can make you fall asleep but not sleep well and awaken early), getting exercise, avoiding too much fluid that can make you have to get up to urinate in the middle of the night, etc. Sex can help. Whatever you do, don’t use Ambien.
Also playing at the piano or surfing on the piano forum past midnight does not help ....
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I would have been interested in any correlation between those results and the average those subject slept a night. That is, what is normal? Because for me, normal is about 5 hours. It's when I consistently drop below this that I start to feel sleep deprived. I don’t understand how you function on five hours of sleep. If I don’t get at least seven hours of sleep a night, I can’t think straight the next day, I am a complete mess. I have an older brother who is autistic. He never sleeps more than an hour at a time and is up all night, every night. I happened to be taking swimming lessons at the YMCA, I’ve always been a lousy swimmer, and I met an Indian man who is an autism researcher. I mentioned my brother to this man and he immediately asked me if my brother had a sleep disorder. When I said, yes, he said that the sleep disorder is genetic and that he has been able to observe sleep disorders in fruit flies when he genetically modified the fruit flies to have autism. I was amazed by this information.
Last edited by LarryK; 09/29/19 11:13 AM.
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I would have been interested in any correlation between those results and the average those subject slept a night. That is, what is normal? Because for me, normal is about 5 hours. It's when I consistently drop below this that I start to feel sleep deprived. I don’t understand how you function on five hours of sleep. If I don’t get at least seven hours of sleep a night, I can’t think straight the next day, I am a complete mess. I've been a short sleeper for at least 45 years. I have an older brother who is autistic. He never sleeps more than an hour at a time and is up all night, every night. I happened to be taking swimming lessons at the YMCA, I’ve always been a lousy swimmer, and I met an Indian man who is an autism researcher. I mentioned my brother to this man and he immediately asked me if my brother had a sleep disorder. When I said, yes, he said that the sleep disorder is genetic and that he has been able to observe sleep disorders in fruit flies when he genetically modified the fruit flies to have autism. I was amazed by this information. I don't know. I've recently had some questions come to mind. I have a close relative on the spectrum. But I myself have been diagnosed with and given medicine for something else. Sometimes I wonder though if some of the traits I ascribe to this are actually not OCD-related, but something else, especially in the last 8 months. I am even wondering if perhaps I've been misdiagnosed, which would not be the first time in medicine/psychiatry, would it? At some point if I care enough, I will have myself properly reassessed. In the meantime, I am going to say no. My short sleeping is just unrelated to what your brother has.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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... perhaps I've been misdiagnosed, which would not be the first time in medicine/psychiatry, would it? . HAHAHAHAHAHA
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I would have been interested in any correlation between those results and the average those subject slept a night. That is, what is normal? Because for me, normal is about 5 hours. It's when I consistently drop below this that I start to feel sleep deprived. I don’t understand how you function on five hours of sleep. If I don’t get at least seven hours of sleep a night, I can’t think straight the next day, I am a complete mess. I've been a short sleeper for at least 45 years. I have an older brother who is autistic. He never sleeps more than an hour at a time and is up all night, every night. I happened to be taking swimming lessons at the YMCA, I’ve always been a lousy swimmer, and I met an Indian man who is an autism researcher. I mentioned my brother to this man and he immediately asked me if my brother had a sleep disorder. When I said, yes, he said that the sleep disorder is genetic and that he has been able to observe sleep disorders in fruit flies when he genetically modified the fruit flies to have autism. I was amazed by this information. I don't know. I've recently had some questions come to mind. I have a close relative on the spectrum. But I myself have been diagnosed with and given medicine for something else. Sometimes I wonder though if some of the traits I ascribe to this are actually not OCD-related, but something else, especially in the last 8 months. I am even wondering if perhaps I've been misdiagnosed, which would not be the first time in medicine/psychiatry, would it? At some point if I care enough, I will have myself properly reassessed. In the meantime, I am going to say no. My short sleeping is just unrelated to what your brother has. Not that Business Insider is a scientific publication, but it does say that short-sleeping is linked to genetics: “ They tend to have a family member that is also a short sleeper. Since short-sleeping is linked to genetics, the behavior that accompanies it often runs in the family.†The autism spectrum is wide, from those who have profound disabilities and can’t live independently to those who are high functioning and successful. The tech field has many people who are on the spectrum. I’m probably on the spectrum. I would not presume to diagnose you, I was not trying to do that, I was just bringing up my personal experience with autism and sleep disorders.
Last edited by LarryK; 09/29/19 11:54 AM.
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Not that Business Insider is a scientific publication, but it does say that short-sleeping is linked to genetics: Yes. Here's something a little more authoritative by the AASM. BTW, if you see the comment section, you'll see something all short sleepers get. Generally accused of lying about how much sleep they get/need. That's because humans tend to see things from an ego-centric viewpoint. If it is true for me, it must be true for everyone. If someone says it's not true for them, they are lying. etc. etc.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Not that Business Insider is a scientific publication, but it does say that short-sleeping is linked to genetics: Yes. Here's something a little more authoritative by the AASM. BTW, if you see the comment section, you'll see something all short sleepers get. Generally accused of lying about how much sleep they get/need. That's because humans tend to see things from an ego-centric viewpoint. If it is true for me, it must be true for everyone. If someone says it's not true for them, they are lying. etc. etc. Oh, I believed you when you said you only slept five hours a night, I didn’t think you were lying. I have known people like you. A friend of mine, a music major, has been pushing his research on algorithmic music composition for decades by taking a short nap at night and staying up, all while working a full time banking software job during the day. All of this effort finally paid off recently when he got a job writing music software for a startup.
Last edited by LarryK; 09/29/19 12:32 PM.
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Oh, I believed you when you said you only slept five hours a night, I didn’t think you were lying. I have known people like you. A friend of mine, a music major, has been pushing his research on algorithmic music composition for decades by taking a short nap at night and staying up, all while working a full time job. All of this effort paid off when he finally got a job writing music software for a startup. Haha, I didn't mean you. I just meant in general. I've remarked on this and often get this.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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This is not the first time I have read about that connection. Thanks for the link. I have sleep issues and do make an effort to deal with them as best i can. I also don't think it excludes people who function well with little sleep, which doesn't include me. It hasn’t been shown to be the case that people who “need less sleep†are not at risk of this phenomenon. There are many ways of trying to improve your sleep if you suffer from insomnia. Briefly, they include avoiding stimulation within a couple hours of bedtime, including tv and monitors other screens, minimizing caffeine hours before bedtime (although some people are affected more than others), avoiding alcohol (which can make you fall asleep but not sleep well and awaken early), getting exercise, avoiding too much fluid that can make you have to get up to urinate in the middle of the night, etc. Sex can help. Whatever you do, don’t use Ambien. I have tried pretty much everything like stopping caffeine in the early afternoon. One thing I learnt though that when stopping caffeine I can get good sleep for a time but then after a while the poor sleep returns. I have used going off caffeine altogether a couple of times as pre-cursor to trying to enforce good sleep hygiene with good sleep in the early stages of sleep hygiene by getting rid of caffeine. But just like giving up caffeine the benefits are only ever temporary. It all feels like everything is a placebo which works for a short period until bad sleep returns. I am a bit of a worrier and the most common problem is just stopping my brain churning on stuff to worry about. Playing piano in the evening does help as a distraction. Exercise is an interesting one, if I don't push myself hard enough it doesn't help, if I push myself too hard then my body feels over stimulated for hours afterwards. If I was like Tyrone it wouldn't matter so much, but I need that sleep to function well.
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Oh, I believed you when you said you only slept five hours a night, I didn’t think you were lying. I have known people like you. A friend of mine, a music major, has been pushing his research on algorithmic music composition for decades by taking a short nap at night and staying up, all while working a full time job. All of this effort paid off when he finally got a job writing music software for a startup. Haha, I didn't mean you. I just meant in general. I've remarked on this and often get this. When I started writing iPhone apps by myself, I got into the habit of working from 3-5am, a period of time in which I found I could be very productive due to the absence of any distractions. I didn’t have to show up at an office, though, so I was always able to nap during the day or sleep in a little later. This schedule proved to be too disruptive for my wife, so I have now changed my schedule to sleeping 10:30pm-6:00am, going for a run, eating my breakfast, and then working.
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[quote=cmb13] Exercise is an interesting one, if I don't push myself hard enough it doesn't help, if I push myself too hard then my body feels over stimulated for hours afterwards.
For a number of years, I ran in a serious running team. I managed to run a 5:57min mile at 45 years of age. Anyway, I gave that up after a number of injuries and because of the way the hard workouts destroyed my ability to sleep. We ran a track workout at 7pm on Tuesday nights and a hard tempo run at 7pm on Thursday nights. My heart rate would be elevated for hours afterwards so that I could not sleep through the night. Plus, no matter how much I ate, my muscles were hungry at 2am and would wake me up to eat some more. I have found running at 6:30am much more conducive to get a good night’s sleep.
Last edited by LarryK; 09/29/19 12:47 PM.
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I remember when Thatcher was diagnosed with dementia, and comments about her being someone who did not need more than 4 hours of sleep a night and a connection made between the lack of sleep and dementia. I also remember comments then about Reagun supposedly being the same.
These are just anecdotes, anecdotes that have been used to make personal what the science points to.
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Exercise is an interesting one, if I don't push myself hard enough it doesn't help, if I push myself too hard then my body feels over stimulated for hours afterwards.
For a number of years, I ran in a serious running team. I managed to run a 5:57min mile at 45 years of age. Anyway, I gave that up after a number of injuries and because of the way the hard workouts destroyed my ability to sleep. We ran a track workout at 7pm on Tuesday nights and a hard tempo run at 7pm on Thursday nights. My heart rate would be elevated for hours afterwards so that I could not sleep through the night. Plus, no matter how much I ate, my muscles were hungry at 2am and would wake me up to eat some more. I have found running at 6:30am much more conducive to get a good night’s sleep. I stopped going to the gym in the evenings and tried lunch times instead, but I still found it problematic. I probably should have tried going first thing in the morning, but I've never been a morning person.
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Exercise is an interesting one, if I don't push myself hard enough it doesn't help, if I push myself too hard then my body feels over stimulated for hours afterwards.
For a number of years, I ran in a serious running team. I managed to run a 5:57min mile at 45 years of age. Anyway, I gave that up after a number of injuries and because of the way the hard workouts destroyed my ability to sleep. We ran a track workout at 7pm on Tuesday nights and a hard tempo run at 7pm on Thursday nights. My heart rate would be elevated for hours afterwards so that I could not sleep through the night. Plus, no matter how much I ate, my muscles were hungry at 2am and would wake me up to eat some more. I have found running at 6:30am much more conducive to get a good night’s sleep. I stopped going to the gym in the evenings and tried lunch times instead, but I still found it problematic. I probably should have tried going first thing in the morning, but I've never been a morning person. Everyone has to figure out what works for them. I have a cutoff of around noon, before lunch, for any strenuous exercise. I bought a dynamic rowing machine for use at home and that thing can provide a hard workout in twenty five minutes, plus, there is no impact. Rowing is 60% legs, 30% back and torso, and 10% legs.
Last edited by LarryK; 09/29/19 01:27 PM.
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I remember when Thatcher was diagnosed with dementia, and comments about her being someone who did not need more than 4 hours of sleep a night and a connection made between the lack of sleep and dementia. I also remember comments then about Reagun supposedly being the same.
These are just anecdotes, anecdotes that have been used to make personal what the science points to.
Anecdoted do make personal what science points to, but as anecdotes, they can also be misleading. For example, Thomas Edison who slept very little, died at 84yo with a very sharp mind and wrote until the end. Yet neither Thatcher nor Edison, might really represent a trend for what actually happens. That's why I was asking cmb13 if there has been any research on dementia and short sleepers, but it appears the answer is no.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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I have tried pretty much everything like stopping caffeine in the early afternoon.
I had some sleep disorder due to numerous years of long distance travel and constant jet lag. What helped me is to take melatonine pils for a few weeks. It is non addictive and really helps to find sleep quickly. It is not supposed to be a long term treatment. After the sleeping cycle is restored, it is not necessary anymore. I also cut cafeine and avoid computers before bed. A good book works fine for me !
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I figure that for short sleepers, one just doesn't feel the need for sleeping more than a certain amount. That has got to count for something. It would be ironic if sleeping the amount which has felt normal for the last 45 years would result in a long term illness, which is why I really think special research should be done on short sleepers - research on average people may simply not be a good model for us. That said, I've actually had a sleep-related illness occur in 2013. I temporarily went blind in one eye. Because of work, I had slept 11 hours over 8 days - an average of about 80 mins a day. After the 8th day, I slept 5 hours and woke up and had to work more. At about 5am, I noticed the world looked funny. Flat. Imagine my shock when I closed my right eye only to find I couldn't see at all through my left eye. I immediately thought I had a stroke, triggered by sleep deprivation, and called 911. By the time the ambulance got me to the emergency room, I could already see on the periphery of my left eye, only there was a fuzzy round black centre - at least it looked a bit roundish. By a few hours later, my left eye had almost entirely come back. It turns our I had a particularly acute retinal migraine. One of the triggers it turns out is sleep deprivation. There was a theory that the due to sleep deprivation, the tissues around my left optical nerve swelled up and put pressure on the optical nerve resulting in the temporary blindness in that eye. I wonder if it could have been related to paresthesia. I never had it before and never had it since. However, my wife is so mad about it, even 6 years later, when I work all-nighters, she taunts me and says if I don't go to sleep, maybe I'll just go blind in my right eye too.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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