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Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895081 09/28/19 07:42 AM
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Here is the very first original recital thread posted on 1/10/2006, almost 14 years ago that was presented to the group.

. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1029994/1.html

It may answer a few questions as to how it all came together as this is exactly how it was formed.

It should be clearly obvious that we were all dependent on the expertise and technical knowledge of Bob Muir at the time. While I came up with the original concept, I had no idea how to implement it and get it started. This is where Bob Muir came in. It was Bob's technical knowledge in the beginning that actually got the concept off the ground and semi-working before we ran into all kinds of problems [mainly finding a server to host the recital on as well as someone proficient enough to write a program that would actually work].

It was at this time that Bob and I turned to member LaValse [a programmer] to help out with the programming requirements that were needed. In addition, we needed a server to host the recital as Pianoworld could not host the recital back then on their server. In addition to donating his time to write a program for our recital, LaValse also donated space on his server [at work] to host our recitals. Had he not done those things for us, the recital would never had got off the ground.

Fast forward to the third from the last reply on page 15 on this thread, you will see when Monica stepped in as recital administrator when she suggested that we may need help running this thing on a regular basis. She was right and instinctively took on the 'recital administrator' role and never looked back.

The real breakthrough in our online recitals came when member Mahzeit stepped in and offered to write an upgraded program that ran the recital significantly smoother and more reliable. The other big improvement was when Pianoworld [Frank] agreed to allow us to host our recitals on the Pianoworld server. This was HUGE as LaValse could no longer offer up his server for us to use but Franks generosity in allowing us to use the Pianoworld server saved the day.

As time progressed, new additions to the recital were introduced by other members just to make things fun which included awards, participation trophies, the official "one month before the recital thread" and eventually the archiving of past recitals once we had a few under out belt.

You can see that many people were involved in the creation of our recitals and I would hate for their efforts to be discounted or go unrecognized. While Monica's efforts as administrator was paramount to the ongoing success of our recitals, she was not alone in contributing to the success of our recitals. This is important to remember when choosing to possibly rename the title.

I miss Monica deeply as I'm sure we all do. She was a great recital administrator and probably an even better role model for all of us to look up to. This is why so many of us want to do something to honor her memory. But we need to be careful not to change the narrative in the process.

I'd personally like to see Monica honored in a way that keeps her memory alive and in our thoughts while ALSO continuing to recognize the original founding recital members that originally created it.

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Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895097 09/28/19 08:48 AM
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Mr HS, I really appreciate your contribution. I guess for you it is more painful to discuss this topic than for many of us more recent contributors to the recitals, and you understandably feel the need to make sure we all have the full context and history.

My personal gut feeling is I'd like to see Monica's name explicitly mentioned in the title, this comes down to recognising the loss of someone who would otherwise have had a lot more to contribute.

But I think I need to put this aside, and instead listen to voices like yours, for two reasons, firstly your relationship with Monica was far longer and deeper than mine, and secondly you have been involved with the recitals from the beginning like Monica and know from experience the history of the recitals, which in my view gives you a better appreciation of what is appropriate.

Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895100 09/28/19 08:57 AM
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Since it seems we aren't going to do a survey, I have assembled the votes from this thread into 6 choice categories:
  • For renaming recital (25): Sibylle, KevinM, barbaram, Tyrone Slothrop, cmb13, Morodiene, WiseBuff, dumka1, John305, tangleweeds, Tech-key, Animisha, Sam S, MarieJ, bSharp(C)yclist, jazzyprof, aTallGuyNH, enw10, jotur, Gary001, Pianoperformance, NobleHouse, johnstaf, casinitaly, Stubbie
  • Against renaming recital (3): mr_super-hunky, wouter97, Peyton
  • Undecided: For either a new name or just a dedication (2): Piano*Dad, Peyton
  • Undecided: For waiting until later to decide on renaming (1): MarieJ
  • Undecided: For wishing we knew what Monica would have wanted (1): Handyman
  • Undecided: Did not come out explicitly for or against, but did acknowledged name change in a post (5): LarryK, dogperson, Montuno, pathway, Roger Ransom

Anyone can change their votes anytime, if they wish and move into another choice category, especially the 9 of you out there that I've lumped into the four "undecide" choice categories, based on your comments, if any of you would like to throw into the first two choices.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
KevinM #2895101 09/28/19 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Mr HS, I really appreciate your contribution. I guess for you it is more painful to discuss this topic than for many of us more recent contributors to the recitals, and you understandably feel the need to make sure we all have the full context and history.

My personal gut feeling is I'd like to see Monica's name explicitly mentioned in the title, this comes down to recognising the loss of someone who would otherwise have had a lot more to contribute.

But I think I need to put this aside, and instead listen to voices like yours, for two reasons, firstly your relationship with Monica was far longer and deeper than mine, and secondly you have been involved with the recitals from the beginning like Monica and know from experience the history of the recitals, which in my view gives you a better appreciation of what is appropriate.

Kevin, if you would like to move into one of the undecided choice categories, just amend my last post.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
mr_super-hunky #2895105 09/28/19 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_super-hunky
You can see that many people were involved in the creation of our recitals and I would hate for their efforts to be discounted or go unrecognized. While Monica's efforts as administrator was paramount to the ongoing success of our recitals, she was not alone in contributing to the success of our recitals. This is important to remember when choosing to possibly rename the title.

I miss Monica deeply as I'm sure we all do. She was a great recital administrator and probably an even better role model for all of us to look up to. This is why so many of us want to do something to honor her memory. But we need to be careful not to change the narrative in the process.

I'd personally like to see Monica honored in a way that keeps her memory alive and in our thoughts while ALSO continuing to recognize the original founding recital members that originally created it.

I believe renaming the recital and leaving the dedication to all those who historically contributed appropriately covers all these three points. Renaming the recital, in particular, does not "change the narrative" except for those who think it changes the narrative. That's a bit circular, but I am just saying that with the proper dedications inside - one being the dedication to Monica explaining, then the narrative doesn't change. Note that we live in a world where often monuments, locations, streets, buildings, etc. are named after individuals. This doesn't wipe away the significance and contributions of everyone else who were essential for those monuments, locations, streets, buildings, etc.

For anyone objecting to the name change on the basis of "change of narrative" alone, I can propose a modified dedication to Monica:
Quote
The quarterly ABF recitals are dedicated to the memory of Monica J. Kern, our long-time recital moderator. 'Monica K.' served as the administrator for 53 quarterly recitals. She also performed in every one of the first 55 recitals, many of those performances dedicated to her favorite composer Ludovico Einaudi. In addition, she was an active and beloved contributor to the Piano World forum. We owe Monica a debt of gratitude for her instrumental role in getting the recitals started and keeping them running for so many years. Although she has been one of the several who have supported these recitals, it is to honor her memory, that the name of this recital has been changed to "The Monica K. Quarterly Recital."

Change the above if you would like to further propose.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895136 09/28/19 10:40 AM
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Thank you Mr_Super-Hunky. I've pretty much stayed out of this discussion, but I, too, had some concerns about losing the history, and you've laid it out. I remember LaValse, and Mahlzeit, and Bob Muir, and you, as well as Monica and Sam (thank you, Sam!) and Copper (red dot medals FTW!). So, my preference, to add to the wrenches in the works and with respect to Sam's thoughts, is to not rename the recital, but to dedicate it to Monica with the wording proposed. I could never quite get myself clear, and I'm so glad you've thought it through.

Not that I would leave if my preference isn't followed. You can't get rid of me that easily. But that's my thought.


Cathy
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Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895137 09/28/19 10:42 AM
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And, as Mr_Super-hunky says, discussion helps a lot. I'm much more comfortable with Tyrone's latest wording.

Mr_Super-Hunky FTW!


Cathy
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Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895157 09/28/19 11:37 AM
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Of course, like most internet forums, there are only a dozen or so people who tend to monopolize the discussions. All the rest of the hundreds or thousands of users prefer to stay in the background and prefer to not get themselves involved with controversial topics. My opinion is to leave the name as it is and mention Mrs. Kern (I didn't know her well enough to call her Monica) in a dedication comment. I mean would we then be obligated to rename it every time something tragic happens?


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Re: Monica..
Tyrone Slothrop #2895195 09/28/19 01:23 PM
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Removing my name for renaming the recital. Since I am so wishy washy and I'm not sure that a simple vote captures what might be considered fair, I am not putting myself anywhere. This isn't any kind of passive aggressive side swipe. Just my own reasoning for myself.

Since it seems we aren't going to do a survey, I have assembled the votes from this thread into 6 choice categories:
  • For renaming recital (24): Sibylle, barbaram, Tyrone Slothrop, cmb13, Morodiene, WiseBuff, dumka1, John305, tangleweeds, Tech-key, Animisha, Sam S, MarieJ, bSharp(C)yclist, jazzyprof, aTallGuyNH, enw10, jotur, Gary001, Pianoperformance, NobleHouse, johnstaf, casinitaly, Stubbie
  • Against renaming recital (3): mr_super-hunky, wouter97, Peyton
  • Undecided: For either a new name or just a dedication (2): Piano*Dad, Peyton
  • Undecided: For waiting until later to decide on renaming (1): MarieJ
  • Undecided: For wishing we knew what Monica would have wanted (1): Handyman
  • Undecided: Did not come out explicitly for or against, but did acknowledged name change in a post (5): LarryK, dogperson, Montuno, pathway, Roger Ransom

Anyone can change their votes anytime, if they wish and move into another choice category, especially the 9 of you out there that I've lumped into the four "undecide" choice categories, based on your comments, if any of you would like to throw into the first two choices.

Last edited by KevinM; 09/28/19 01:26 PM.
Re: Monica..
KevinM #2895229 09/28/19 03:17 PM
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OK, I've updated to further reflect jotur and Roger Ransom's latest expressed thoughts. Again, feel free to vote further or change your votes.

Since it seems we aren't going to do a survey, I have assembled the votes from this thread into 6 choice categories:
  • For renaming recital (23): Sibylle, barbaram, Tyrone Slothrop, cmb13, Morodiene, WiseBuff, dumka1, John305, tangleweeds, Tech-key, Animisha, Sam S, MarieJ, bSharp(C)yclist, jazzyprof, aTallGuyNH, enw10, Gary001, Pianoperformance, NobleHouse, johnstaf, casinitaly, Stubbie
  • Against renaming recital (5): mr_super-hunky, wouter97, Peyton, jotur, Roger Ransom
  • Undecided: For either a new name or just a dedication (2): Piano*Dad, Peyton
  • Undecided: For waiting until later to decide on renaming (1): MarieJ
  • Undecided: For wishing we knew what Monica would have wanted (1): Handyman
  • Undecided: Did not come out explicitly for or against, but did acknowledged name change in a post (4): LarryK, dogperson, Montuno, pathway

Anyone can change their votes anytime, if they wish and move into another choice category, especially the 8 of you out there that I've lumped into the four "undecide" choice categories, based on your comments, if any of you would like to throw into the first two choices.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895231 09/28/19 03:21 PM
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Ok, you can change my vote into the category of “For renaming.” I think her daughter will be touched by the gesture.

Last edited by LarryK; 09/28/19 03:22 PM.
Re: Monica..
Tyrone Slothrop #2895232 09/28/19 03:35 PM
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Updated with LarryK's latest expressed thoughts. Again, feel free to vote further or change any of your votes.

Since it seems we aren't going to do a survey, I have assembled the votes from this thread into 6 choice categories:
  • For renaming recital (24): Sibylle, barbaram, Tyrone Slothrop, cmb13, Morodiene, WiseBuff, dumka1, John305, tangleweeds, Tech-key, Animisha, Sam S, MarieJ, bSharp(C)yclist, jazzyprof, aTallGuyNH, enw10, Gary001, Pianoperformance, NobleHouse, johnstaf, casinitaly, Stubbie, LarryK
  • Against renaming recital (5): mr_super-hunky, wouter97, Peyton, jotur, Roger Ransom
  • Undecided: For either a new name or just a dedication (2): Piano*Dad, Peyton
  • Undecided: For waiting until later to decide on renaming (1): MarieJ
  • Undecided: For wishing we knew what Monica would have wanted (1): Handyman
  • Undecided: Did not come out explicitly for or against, but did acknowledged name change in a post (3): dogperson, Montuno, pathway

Anyone can change their votes anytime, if they wish and move into another choice category, especially the 7 of you out there that I've lumped into the four "undecide" choice categories, based on your comments, if any of you would like to throw into the first two choices.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
Tyrone Slothrop #2895268 09/28/19 05:43 PM
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I had to make a correction since MarieJ changed her opinion and I didn't realise it was a changed view versus weighing in for the first time. Now corrected below.

Since it seems we aren't going to do a survey, I have assembled the votes from this thread into 6 choice categories:
  • For renaming recital (23): Sibylle, barbaram, Tyrone Slothrop, cmb13, Morodiene, WiseBuff, dumka1, John305, tangleweeds, Tech-key, Animisha, Sam S, bSharp(C)yclist, jazzyprof, aTallGuyNH, enw10, Gary001, Pianoperformance, NobleHouse, johnstaf, casinitaly, Stubbie, LarryK
  • Against renaming recital (5): mr_super-hunky, wouter97, Peyton, jotur, Roger Ransom
  • Undecided: For either a new name or just a dedication (2): Piano*Dad, Peyton
  • Undecided: For waiting until later to decide on renaming (1): MarieJ
  • Undecided: For wishing we knew what Monica would have wanted (1): Handyman
  • Undecided: Did not come out explicitly for or against, but did acknowledged name change in a post (3): dogperson, Montuno, pathway

Anyone can change their votes anytime, if they wish and move into another choice category, especially the 7 of you out there that I've lumped into the four "undecide" choice categories, based on your comments, if any of you would like to throw into the first two choices.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
MarieJ #2895284 09/28/19 06:43 PM
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Tyrone, I haven’t changed my opinion, just agreed with Mr Super-Hunky that changes need not be rushed. If it is now up to a vote, I stand by my earlier post:

Originally Posted by MarieJ
I’m sure that Monica would appreciate having her beloved ABF Recitals renamed in her memory. I agree with Sam, keep the new title simple and short: ‘The Monica K. Quarterly Recital’.

She has been Monica K. - her Piano World username - to us throughout her 18,000+ posts, and will always be remembered here as Monica K. heart


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Re: Monica..
MarieJ #2895289 09/28/19 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MarieJ
Tyrone, I haven’t changed my opinion, just agreed with Mr Super-Hunky that changes need not be rushed. If it is now up to a vote, I stand by my earlier post:

Originally Posted by MarieJ
I’m sure that Monica would appreciate having her beloved ABF Recitals renamed in her memory. I agree with Sam, keep the new title simple and short: ‘The Monica K. Quarterly Recital’.

She has been Monica K. - her Piano World username - to us throughout her 18,000+ posts, and will always be remembered here as Monica K. heart

Oops. Sorry for misunderstanding. Would you like me to move your vote to another category, or is it ok as it is?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895292 09/28/19 06:56 PM
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I think this is terrible that it has come down to a vote where names are publicly called out. With all due respect, Monica had a recital dedicated in her honor. I would think a simple and sincere dedication in her honor would be appropriate. Keeping the recital title as it was originally in no way diminishes or dishonors Monica's contributions.


Linda

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Re: Monica..
TX-Bluebonnet #2895294 09/28/19 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TX-Bluebonnet
I think this is terrible that it has come down to a vote where names are publicly called out. With all due respect, Monica had a recital dedicated in her honor. I would think a simple and sincere dedication in her honor would be appropriate. Keeping the recital title as it was originally in no way diminishes or dishonors Monica's contributions.

I disagree. It isn't terrible at all. TX-Bluebonnet, as Sam S pointed out, this forum is by and for all of its members. Everyone should have a voice in the decision. Sorry if voting on this is upsetting you but it is the democratic thing to do to have those that have an opinion on this matter (which is not everyone on the forum) to have a voice in the decision, if they want one. We've seen what her daughter Athena has said about it and we can vote. But since you object to voting, I won't count you for or against the change of name.

I think though if you or anyone really disagrees on the voting, they should start another thread so that we can keep this thread respectful as we honor Monica's memory.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
Tyrone Slothrop #2895296 09/28/19 07:13 PM
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Yes please Tyrone - I vote to rename the Recitals in Monica's memory. Without her unfailing dedication, enthusiasm and active participation, the Recitals may not have survived for so long, let alone flourished - as they have. She deserves this recognition heart.


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Re: Monica..
Ken Knapp #2895297 09/28/19 07:15 PM
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I think I am seeing your issue now. You are thinking that such a vote should be by secret ballot? Is that correct? Actually, I asked Sam S about that and he didn't think the survey respondents could be controlled.

Also, I've only assembled views of those who publicly expressed views on this matter in this thread. If you are concerned there are those who would like to vote, but would like their vote to remain secret, I guess we should think again about whether or not an anonymous poll can be done but limited only to PW members. I'm thinking not since this forum lost it's poll mechanism many years ago.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Monica..
Tyrone Slothrop #2895299 09/28/19 07:17 PM
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Sorry Marie! It should be right now smile

Since it seems we aren't going to do a survey, I have assembled the votes from this thread into 6 choice categories:
  • For renaming recital (24): Sibylle, barbaram, Tyrone Slothrop, cmb13, Morodiene, WiseBuff, dumka1, John305, tangleweeds, Tech-key, Animisha, Sam S, MarieJ, bSharp(C)yclist, jazzyprof, aTallGuyNH, enw10, Gary001, Pianoperformance, NobleHouse, johnstaf, casinitaly, Stubbie, LarryK,
  • Against renaming recital (5): mr_super-hunky, wouter97, Peyton, jotur, Roger Ransom
  • Undecided: For either a new name or just a dedication (2): Piano*Dad, Peyton
  • Undecided: For waiting until later to decide on renaming (0):
  • Undecided: For wishing we knew what Monica would have wanted (1): Handyman
  • Undecided: Did not come out explicitly for or against, but did acknowledged name change in a post (3): dogperson, Montuno, pathway

Anyone can change their votes anytime, if they wish and move into another choice category, especially the 7 of you out there that I've lumped into the four "undecide" choice categories, based on your comments, if any of you would like to throw into the first two choices.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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