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Re: VSL Steinway D - released
ˆTomLCˆ #2894866 09/27/19 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
Guys, is this: VSL Synchron Concert D considered the best the best Steinway VST? I heard that the Ivory version is better. I would like to get a Steinway grand VST that sounds realistic.


I haven't bothered to use Ivory American Concert D in years. It's not really in the same league.

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Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Pete14 #2894868 09/27/19 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by TomLC
Guys, is this: VSL Synchron Concert D considered the best the best Steinway VST? I heard that the Ivory version is better. I would like to get a Steinway grand VST that sounds realistic.


Yep! grin

Yep! grin


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
angmyu #2894895 09/27/19 02:59 PM
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Then I will just have to buy it! As soon as the SSD I ordered is delivered today.



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Re: VSL Steinway D - released
angmyu #2894924 09/27/19 04:31 PM
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The VSL Synchron D is certainly the best Steinway VST around at the moment in terms of sound and playability in my view. I have a few of the others (including the Ivory ACD, the Grandeur, the Galaxy Vintage D, the TrueKeys American etc.) and none of them come close in my opinion. The sonic possibilities are quite substantial given the range of mics and the ability to mix them.

There is one important caveat which has been alluded to. This is a Hamburg Steinway, not a New York one. The two acoustic instruments have a substantially different timbre, with German Steinways being darker, tougher, deeper even. That absolutely comes across in the VSL instrument; this growls as much as sings. That's not a criticism; it's just how the instruments are. The VSL CFX is a lot more lyrical.

To comment briefly on the cold criticism: up to a point, yes, I'd go along with that for both the VSL Synchron pianos, but again that's not really a criticism. To compare CFXs, the Garritan is significantly warmer, but also lighter and fuzzier. The difference is rather like vinyl vs CD; CDs are widely regarded as colder, but this is partly due to the greater clarity. The VSL instruments are crystal clear and sonically quite neutral. That's not necessarily what everyone wants in a piano VST, so there is an element of taste there, but I think the perceived coldness comes from the clarity.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
karvala #2894937 09/27/19 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by karvala
The VSL Synchron D is certainly the best Steinway VST around at the moment in terms of sound and playability in my view. I have a few of the others (including the Ivory ACD, the Grandeur, the Galaxy Vintage D, the TrueKeys American etc.) and none of them come close in my opinion. The sonic possibilities are quite substantial given the range of mics and the ability to mix them.

There is one important caveat which has been alluded to. This is a Hamburg Steinway, not a New York one. The two acoustic instruments have a substantially different timbre, with German Steinways being darker, tougher, deeper even. That absolutely comes across in the VSL instrument; this growls as much as sings. That's not a criticism; it's just how the instruments are. The VSL CFX is a lot more lyrical.

To comment briefly on the cold criticism: up to a point, yes, I'd go along with that for both the VSL Synchron pianos, but again that's not really a criticism. To compare CFXs, the Garritan is significantly warmer, but also lighter and fuzzier. The difference is rather like vinyl vs CD; CDs are widely regarded as colder, but this is partly due to the greater clarity. The VSL instruments are crystal clear and sonically quite neutral. That's not necessarily what everyone wants in a piano VST, so there is an element of taste there, but I think the perceived coldness comes from the clarity.

+1. With VSL Steinway just to add beautiful Embertone Steinway D(American) in terms of sound. This is real (and warm) piano on digital as it can be. Hope that update will fix some problems with playability.

Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Grazilerimba #2894972 09/27/19 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Around here, this is often considered the best Steinway. IMHO it is too "cold" sounding, although there has been some debate here about what that actually means, and whether it's fair to say it. To me, this Steinway sounds lifeless and way too harsh. It is, however, the best playable sampled Steinway. Ivory American Concert D has playability which is IMHO right up there as VSL is, but has no true sustain resonance samples and is quite outdated nowadays. The Grandeur is a good compromise between size, low footprint and playability (and no dongle!), but needs to be tweaked a bit because it has some issues. Unfortunately as far as Steinway grand pianos go, they are the most sampled grand pianos, but IMHO to this day, no one has fully nailed it. But the Yamaha CFX, despite being a relatively new concert grand model, has gotten Garritan's excellent library, and even VSL's CFX is a more authentic and more real sounding grand than VSL's Steinway is, IMHO.
But yeah you'll find as many opinions in here as VSL has velocity layers.


Yeah, I don't think the world has a 100% perfect VST, and neither does VSL D274. There is only suitable or not suitable for everyone.
Maybe it's cold, and I think it's also a little bit more mechanically noisy than VSL CFX. I dnt know what it is, maybe hammer or dampen noise? Soundboard speaker on my CA98 amplifies this kind of noise, especially when I hit the mid to high keys harder and it sounds from the side and back. I have consulted the VSL people and they said it was probably because the D274 they sampled had more mechanical noise than the CFX, and Microphone recorded them truthfully.
Fortunately, I have been used to it, and in player position is not as obvious as the audit.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
slobajudge #2894975 09/27/19 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge

+1. With VSL Steinway just to add beautiful Embertone Steinway D(American) in terms of sound. This is real (and warm) piano on digital as it can be. Hope that update will fix some problems with playability.


I've also heard about Embertone Steinway warmer tone and plan to try it in the future to complement the VSL Steinway.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
robinlb #2895022 09/28/19 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
+1. With VSL Steinway just to add beautiful Embertone Steinway D(American) in terms of sound. This is real (and warm) piano on digital as it can be. Hope that update will fix some problems with playability.
Originally Posted by robinlb
I've also heard about Embertone Steinway warmer tone and plan to try it in the future to complement the VSL Steinway.

Are the two of you talking about running both of these VSTs in a DAW simultaneously and blending the sound? If so, would you only do that in rendering, or also do it when playing live?

BTW, what DAW are you using for this? I've been thinking about Cubase 10 for myself, but I don't know if it will be fast enough for doing stuff like this when playing live. (I'm not so interested in rendering, probably because I'm still learning to play.)


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2895043 09/28/19 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by slobajudge
+1. With VSL Steinway just to add beautiful Embertone Steinway D(American) in terms of sound. This is real (and warm) piano on digital as it can be. Hope that update will fix some problems with playability.
Originally Posted by robinlb
I've also heard about Embertone Steinway warmer tone and plan to try it in the future to complement the VSL Steinway.

Are the two of you talking about running both of these VSTs in a DAW simultaneously and blending the sound? If so, would you only do that in rendering, or also do it when playing live?

BTW, what DAW are you using for this? I've been thinking about Cubase 10 for myself, but I don't know if it will be fast enough for doing stuff like this when playing live. (I'm not so interested in rendering, probably because I'm still learning to play.)

No, at least me, no need to playing both at the same time. Just to complement each other as Robinlb said. BTW I use Reaper DAW.

Re: VSL Steinway D - released
slobajudge #2895114 09/28/19 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
No, at least me, no need to playing both at the same time. Just to complement each other as Robinlb said.

So you mean using each of the different VSTs for different style music?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2895150 09/28/19 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by slobajudge
No, at least me, no need to playing both at the same time. Just to complement each other as Robinlb said.

So you mean using each of the different VSTs for different style music?

Embertone piano is vintage American Steinway D, as such it has warm and deep tone, you can feel body of piano, like old Bluthner, sound is gorgeous and it is very inspirational for playing. On the other hand, sound of VSL is pure concert modern Steinway, there is a time when you want exactly that when you playing, it is inspirational from different angle, so depend of mood, I like to have both. I don`t need anything else from sample piano, maybe VSL Bluthner. Also, from time to time I hate to deal with VSL dongle and just want it to turn it on and play. No need for dongle for Embertone.

Last edited by slobajudge; 09/28/19 10:10 AM.
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2895156 09/28/19 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Are the two of you talking about running both of these VSTs in a DAW simultaneously and blending the sound? If so, would you only do that in rendering, or also do it when playing live?

BTW, what DAW are you using for this? I've been thinking about Cubase 10 for myself, but I don't know if it will be fast enough for doing stuff like this when playing live. (I'm not so interested in rendering, probably because I'm still learning to play.)


I understood what you mean. You want to combine the two flavors wink
I usually use latest Sychron Piano player standalone and Cubase8 or Kontakt player for VSL or other VSTs. I've been running a single VST piano in realtime only, and heard of people who do mix different VST pianos with multiple tracks.
but I never try on host software in realtime, and only experienced VSL mixing with built in Kawai SKEX when I forgot to turn off local control.
Maybe you can test it in future by your powerful DAW stationgrin


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
angmyu #2895189 09/28/19 12:07 PM
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I blend Pianoteq Pro with the CFX on my P-515, and I love it.
So, initially I thought the VRM had something to do with it, but I turned it off and it truly made no difference. On the other hand, I turned off the reverb (on my piano) and it did make a difference. Turns out that keeping both the on-board reverb and Pianoteq’s reverb on does it for me (no need for VRM). Of course, some tweaking/balancing is necessary for intonation, volume, reverb, etc..., but I believe the result is worth the effort for me.
I may consider a reverb plug-in down the road.

Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2895325 09/28/19 07:49 PM
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Hi Tyrone, only two days from now.
Maybe you can get your child to apply for the September education discount, which is a great deal.
I could only cry when I saw the student price of my another friend got for Sychron piano bundle.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
robinlb #2895327 09/28/19 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by robinlb
Hi Tyrone, only two days from now.
Maybe you can get your child to apply for the September education discount, which is a great deal.
I could only cry when I saw the student price of my another friend got for Sychron piano bundle.

Wow! What an idea! I knew there was a reason why I pay my daughter's college tuition! To buy VSL for me!

So what happens in 2 days? I seem to have lost the thread here.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2895334 09/28/19 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Wow! What an idea! I knew there was a reason why I pay my daughter's college tuition! To buy VSL for me!

So what happens in 2 days? I seem to have lost the thread here.


Check their webpage laugh Student Discounts


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
robinlb #2895345 09/28/19 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Wow! What an idea! I knew there was a reason why I pay my daughter's college tuition! To buy VSL for me!

So what happens in 2 days? I seem to have lost the thread here.


Check their webpage laugh Student Discounts

Wow. Rush rush. I guess I have my daughter has to buy by Monday. smile Done.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
angmyu #2895351 09/28/19 09:35 PM
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This sample might work for my well-tempered clavier project. Does anyone know how many velocity layers per note?


J. S. Bach Well-tempered Clavier, complete preludes and fugues (with significant MIDI analysis):

https://soundcloud.com/johnlgrant

https://www.youtube.com/user/dohgrant/playlists (slightly better sound quality)



Re: VSL Steinway D - released
johnlewisgrant #2895355 09/28/19 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by johnlewisgrant
This sample might work for my well-tempered clavier project. Does anyone know how many velocity layers per note?


IIRC, the Synchron pianos have around 60 layers, while the old Vienna Imperial has 100.

Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2895395 09/29/19 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Wow. Rush rush. I guess I have my daughter has to buy by Monday. smile Done.


Congratulations in advance, hope it to run on your DAW workstation soon.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
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