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Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? #2894470 09/26/19 12:33 PM
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WTM Offline OP
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Hi all,

So I have a CLP685, which is very nice, but my teacher has a baby grand, and I occasionally get to play an old Chappell upright at my mum's place of work (residential home for the elderly) and even though that Chappell is slightly out of tune and in need of some TLC, I still enjoy the experience more than playing on my digital.

I blindly bought my Yamaha, I decided I was going to play piano and dived in at the deep end and just ordered it online. I had my first lesson on the Saturday and the piano arrived on the Sunday. That lesson on the Saturday was the first time I had ever touched a piano.

On top of this, other pianos I've played briefly are a Steinway grand and a Bechstein grand (I don't know what models) but what struck me most about them was how light the action was compared to my CLP685. The action on my piano feels solid and robust, but it also feels very firm. I'm currently working on preparing to take ABRSM grade 8 at the end of next year. I'm not concerned about learning my 3 pieces, I need to bring my aural and sight reading skills up, hence why I'm taking it right to the end of the syllabus period to take the grade 8 exam.

So that's a bit of background on where I'm coming from, so my question to all of you is, is moving to an acoustic going to be worth it? I assume I'm probably going to have to buy a decent one for it to have a better action than the CLP685, on top of this a grand (even a baby grand) is completely out of the question, it would have to be an upright, I just simply don't have the space.

For example: https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2190603&make=Bluthner&model=

would something like this be good? I know the answer is "go and try them and find out" but that shop is quite far away from me. I'm talking more generally, am I mad at looking at 90+ year old uprights to replace a 18 month old top of the line digital? I know what my hearts saying, it's convincing my head that's the hard part.

Thanks,

Will

Last edited by WTM; 09/26/19 12:35 PM.

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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894473 09/26/19 12:51 PM
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[quote]am I mad at looking at 90+ year old uprights to replace a 18 month old top of the line digital?[/quote}

probably whome

I suspect your digital is very nice. And note that it doesn't go out of tune or require maintenance. Therefore, you'd need to replace it with a pretty nice upright to prevent feeling regret later. And I say that as someone who very strongly prefers acoustic to digital....


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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894485 09/26/19 02:00 PM
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For someone who has only been playing since may 2018, you play EXCEPTIONALLY WELL.

Yes - moving to a 90 year old upright from your current digital would not be a step in the right direction.

You make no mention of budget constraints.

At a minimum I'd suggest that you check out new (or used in great condition) Yamaha U1's - but also keep the digital if at all possible..

p.s. Just checked out the Bluthner video. Seems to be in very fine condition , and you probably should check it out. Not your "run of the mill" 90 year old piano.


Last edited by Carey; 09/26/19 02:03 PM.

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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894492 09/26/19 02:23 PM
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Yes. I started lessons while playing a Yamaha P115 digital, which I thought at the time had great feel. After 6 months, at the request of my teacher, I purchased an upright, for space reasons, and since then my teacher tells me I have improved very much and credits the acoustic for this. The dynamics of playing an acoustic are so much better. I still have the digital when I need to play with headphones or play out, but have become "an acoustic snob" lol. There are plenty of used pianos on the market. You don't need a Bechstein, just something with a decent action - you will definitely be happy you did. Stay with the Hanon exercises and your fingers will feel the difference.

Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894493 09/26/19 02:28 PM
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You play very well. You deserve a good acoustic. Go to London visit a bunch of stores and go play them.

You owe that to yourself.

If you have to, make a fun trip out of it. Go spend a week-end in the city, bring a friend, find a cheap place to stay and spend a week-end piano shopping.

Trust me after you find your piano and it is sitting in your home, you'll be happy you did.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: Carey] #2894495 09/26/19 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey
For someone who has only been playing since may 2018, you play EXCEPTIONALLY WELL.

Yes - moving to a 90 year old upright from your current digital would not be a step in the right direction.

You make no mention of budget constraints.

At a minimum I'd suggest that you check out new (or used in great condition) Yamaha U1's - but also keep the digital if at all possible..

p.s. Just checked out the Bluthner video. Seems to be in very fine condition , and you probably should check it out. Not your "run of the mill" 90 year old piano.




Thanks for your kind words Carey - I've been blessed with being able to memorise quickly, but I can't sight read for toffee! My sight reading level at the moment is about ABRSM grade 2 haha, need to work on it big time!

I think so too. Budget-wise, well again it's head over heart. I could probably spend up to £10k, I shouldn't though... I think rather than keeping an upright and a digital together I'd probably be best getting an acoustic with a silent system instead perhaps?

Yeah, I highly respect Robert's Pianos. His YouTube channel is fantastic, he is a piano salesman at the end of the day, but considering piano shops are so rare these days (especially outside of London) and he's still in business, it must be testament to him being a stand up good guy. I will make a trip down to Oxford at some point.

Last edited by WTM; 09/26/19 02:38 PM.

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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894531 09/26/19 04:27 PM
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I agree a 90 yr old accoustic piano(even a Bluthner )may not be the best choice if you are seriously
considering this exam.If you could find a newer used European piano with an enhanced repetition action that would be great.(Seiler,Sauter,Bechstein are examples)
Here to find such pianos used is difficult but there should be more available in the UK.Seiler have
both German and Indonesian made pianos with fast repetition action.It may be possible to get a
new Indonesian replica of the German made Seiler. These pianos have had very good reviews on
Piano Buyer.I think they make them with the fast (magnetic)repeation action and without it.
Otherwise a Yamaha U1 (or better a U3) or Kawai K300 (or better for your evel K500)
These 2 brands are both reliable but have a differece of tone.Yamaha brighter but very attractive
Kawai darker more mellow.
Try to get as new as possible !

Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894546 09/26/19 04:57 PM
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I started on a Korg Digita with 88 weighted Keys. I bought a Young Change Pramberger and never looked back. I don't need volume control and I sold the Korg. So my answer is yes but only given the context that my only interest is pure piano.

Mugre


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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894555 09/26/19 05:11 PM
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WTM - I’m intrigued when you said the action on the acoustics was lighter than your digital. I’ve always found the opposite to be true so you must have found well regulated acoustics to try out. This is just my own humble opinion. I grew up in the Bronze Age taking piano lessons and practicing on my Mother’s Story&Clark upright. There were only terrible electric pianos in those days so I grew adjusted to playing uprights and occasionally a grand piano for recitals. The biggest difference in my mind between playing a digital and playing an acoustic is you can feel the hammer hitting the strings, you can fell the let off, and you can feel the string vibrations in the after touch, as your finger starts to lift off the key. The whole piano physically responds to your playing. I don’t think digitals do that. I know digitals have improved immensely and will continue to improve but I just don’t think a DP will ever be as truly responsive as a quality acoustic.
You can certainly complete all your required tests and continue with your music studies never venturing in to the world of acoustic pianos. Besides the initial purchase cost, there is tuning, regulation and voicing tweaks needed. But..............
There’s nothing like having a fabulous practice partner with a lovely singing voice to play, practice, noodle around with, playing a tune stuck in your head.
If you have room for both an acoustic and your DP, keep em both. The DP is great for silent practice.


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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894557 09/26/19 05:22 PM
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johnstaf Online Crying
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The CLP685 has one of the heaviest actions in a digital piano (but lighter than the 675). It also feels closer to a grand than an upright. It's a tough choice to make, but you might find yourself better prepared for the grand you will play in your exams than you would be with many old uprights. I remember the first time I played a grand. It was in an exam, and I couldn't press the keys down properly in faster passages. This is just something for you to bear in mind.

Last edited by johnstaf; 09/26/19 05:27 PM.
Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: j&j] #2894559 09/26/19 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
WTM - I’m intrigued when you said the action on the acoustics was lighter than your digital. I’ve always found the opposite to be true so you must have found well regulated acoustics to try out. This is just my own humble opinion. I grew up in the Bronze Age taking piano lessons and practicing on my Mother’s Story&Clark upright. There were only terrible electric pianos in those days so I grew adjusted to playing uprights and occasionally a grand piano for recitals. The biggest difference in my mind between playing a digital and playing an acoustic is you can feel the hammer hitting the strings, you can fell the let off, and you can feel the string vibrations in the after touch, as your finger starts to lift off the key. The whole piano physically responds to your playing. I don’t think digitals do that. I know digitals have improved immensely and will continue to improve but I just don’t think a DP will ever be as truly responsive as a quality acoustic.
You can certainly complete all your required tests and continue with your music studies never venturing in to the world of acoustic pianos. Besides the initial purchase cost, there is tuning, regulation and voicing tweaks needed. But..............
There’s nothing like having a fabulous practice partner with a lovely singing voice to play, practice, noodle around with, playing a tune stuck in your head.
If you have room for both an acoustic and your DP, keep em both. The DP is great for silent practice.

Well as a contrast my teachers baby grand has a pretty heavy action and the old Chappell at my mums place of work has a 'spongy' action shall we say.

The Steinway was owned by a church and every year my teacher does a student recital, I'd only been playing for 6 months when I got to play it, and it was my first experience on a full sized piano. My teacher has another recital this October in the same church on (I assume) the same piano, so I'll let you know if it's still the case.

The Bechstein was a really lucky encounter. The business unit where I work was being merged into another one early in the financial year. They had quite a bit of budget left over so they spent it on a one-off big Christmas party. We're based in Cambridge so they hired out one of the University College buildings for the xmas lunch and afternoon. Me and my friend, who also plays piano, were nosy and after lunch walked around the college building. We found a room labelled "music room" and just our luck it was unlocked, inside was the Bechstein grand and a very ornate, old looking harpsichord. We spent the next 3 or so hours in there playing the piano and harpsichord. It was honestly one of the best afternoons I've ever had. My friend who's been playing piano since he was a child and has played on many different pianos didn't seem to think the Bechstein was 'that great' but I loved it. It was definitely an old one. It wasn't as light as the Steinway but it was definitely lighter than my digital, but again it was a long time ago and my memory probably isn't so good.

The Bechstein looked an awful lot like this: https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2181011&make=Bechstein&model=C

But nowhere near as polished and the ivory keys were a lot more worn. The music stand was exactly the same.

Will

Last edited by WTM; 09/26/19 05:31 PM.

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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894560 09/26/19 05:24 PM
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You play beautifully and I think you would completely enjoy the acoustic experience. As j&j said well in his post keep the digital for silent practice and get an acoustic. You definitely have the potential to do a lot with a real piano.


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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: johnstaf] #2894574 09/26/19 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
The CLP685 has one of the heaviest actions in a digital piano (but lighter than the 675). It also feels closer to a grand than an upright. It's a tough choice to make, but you might find yourself better prepared for the grand you will play in your exams than you would be with many old uprights. I remember the first time I played a grand. It was in an exam, and I couldn't press the keys down properly in faster passages. This is just something for you to bear in mind.

I had this same experience! We had a old Seiler ,a tall piano with a lovely tone.But a very light action
but even.I remember playing on a new grand for an Eistetdford (?)and yes the quick response and the added key resistance was a shock I did not need.My performance was fine but not as musical
as it should have been.
I was lucky in that I later got a Kawai grand.This does not mean you have to get a grand however.
A good upright( not old ),with a quick key response ,a reasonable key resistance and a creative
tone would provide you with what you with what you need.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/26/19 06:21 PM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894591 09/26/19 07:14 PM
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Similar to you, I had a Kawai digital piano, then a Roland digital piano before moving to an acoustic grand piano.

I'd say that once you've reach a more advanced level, which if you are preparing from ABRSM Grade 8, is advanced, you'll want to advance your tonal colours through different key touch techniques. You'll also want to advance your hearing to take advantage of resonance. I think this is where digital pianos fall behind acoustic pianos.

I have a Kawai RX-2H grand piano, which sits between a baby grand (I can't stand the bass notes of baby grand) and a regular 6 foot grand. The keys are rather heavy, which doesn't help with learning to touch the keys lightly and evenly. My teacher's grand piano have very light keys. So I used to sound like an elephant during lessons. I've finally learn to adjust and refine my playing to sound decent on my teacher's piano.

If I were you and with a decent budget, I'd go for a regular grand piano, not baby grand, and go for one that has lighter keys with even tones and good resonance. A piano like this will train you to refine you playing. But I guess the decision is also dependent on how much further you want to advance your piano playing.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the different brands. Even if I do, pianos tend to sound different even with the same brand and model. If you've been playing digital piano for a long time, I'd suggest you bring someone more advanced and knowledgeable about acoustic pianos with you, e.g. your teacher if he/she is willing. I'm suggesting this because if I were to shop for a grand piano now, I won't pick the same piano again. Unfortunately I didn't know enough then, having played on digital pianos for so long.

Good luck!


Be yourself

Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894596 09/26/19 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WTM
I think rather than keeping an upright and a digital together I'd probably be best getting an acoustic with a silent system instead perhaps?
Remember that you will pay extra for an acoustic with a silent system vs. just an acoustic. So I think the decision to keep your digital or not should depend on your available space, how much you can sell your digital for, and how much you like playing the acoustic in silent mode vs. your present digital.

Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: Lady Bird] #2894599 09/26/19 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I agree a 90 yr old accoustic piano(even a Bluthner )may not be the best choice if you are seriously considering this exam.If you could find a newer used European piano with an enhanced repetition action that would be great
A vertical with a normal vertical action is perfectly fine for the OPs purpose now and long into the future.

Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894603 09/26/19 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by WTM
Yeah, I highly respect Robert's Pianos. His YouTube channel is fantastic, He is a piano salesman at the end of the day, but considering piano shops are so rare these days (especially outside of London) and he's still in business, it must be testament to him being a stand up good guy. I will make a trip down to Oxford at some point.
I perused the Robert's Pianos website, and I wish I could travel to Oxford myself to audition their pianos. grin I noticed that they sell new Feurich pianos - grands and uprights. The grands are out of your price range, but the verticals would be worth considering.
https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/feurich/


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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894615 09/26/19 08:02 PM
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Unless the 90 year old vertical you mentioned or a similarly old piano has had quite a bit of work done on it or is in incredibly good condition(very rare for a piano that old) you should get a new or more recently built piano.

I don't know about prices in the UK but if they are like those in the U.S. for the upper limit of your budget you can get a good new vertical, a used but higher quality or taller vertical, a fairly low quality or very short new grand, or a better quality or longer used grand. You could even consider a super quality hybrid like the Yamaha AvantGrand.

I think all the above would be reasonable possibilities but if you want to install a player/silent system on any of them it would add a lot to the cost. In that case I would recommend keeping your digital for silent practice.

For the amount of time you've studied I agree with Carey that you play incredibly well. I suggest you take quite a bit of time to decide on a piano since there are always trade offs to consider(I.e. new vertical vs. higher quality but used vertical or vertical vs. slightly lower quality or used grand) at a given price point. Only by playing quite a few possibilities can you decide which you prefer.

Remember to give any possibilities a reasonably long try out because it always takes some time to adjust to a new piano's action. Don't reject a piano because it feels too light or too heavy in the first ten minutes.


Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/26/19 08:10 PM.
Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: WTM] #2894645 09/26/19 09:39 PM
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I would stay away from the silent system keep your digital and buy a regular acoustic.


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Re: Is it worth moving to an acoustic? If so - to what? [Re: Learux] #2894650 09/26/19 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Learux
I would stay away from the silent system keep your digital and buy a regular acoustic.
Why?

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