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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Lady Bird #2892882 09/22/19 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well I had to just go to a piano dealer and there was a Schimmel console (45"?)The last time I tried this smaller Schimmel it was out of tune.This time beautifully in tune, a sweet lovely sound and the
action is absolutely perfect for an upright that size.It is the regular Classic (Tradition)
I also tried a new Petrof grand ,gorgeous tone, can't but say it was wonderful price $69,000 (not sure
of the model.It could be bigger or smaller than the old model 4 ?)


What I said about about the Schimmel Konzert series piano I played was:
Quote

But the high end sustain was just average on the piano I played. It was not on par with the Bosendorfer or Grotrian verticals that I also tried. I likely would prefer a YUS5 or K800 to any Schimmel upright.

I also said prior it would be a downgrade of the piano I have with respect to sustain of treble tone. I’m not sure why both of those statements invoke so much discord, but they were my experience, and are not inconsistent with your audition result.

The Konzert series does have a different action from the Classic series.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Sweelinck #2892884 09/22/19 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well I had to just go to a piano dealer and there was a Schimmel console (45"?)The last time I tried this smaller Schimmel it was out of tune.This time beautifully in tune, a sweet lovely sound and the
action is absolutely perfect for an upright that size.It is the regular Classic (Tradition)
I also tried a new Petrof grand ,gorgeous tone, can't but say it was wonderful price $69,000 (not sure
of the model.It could be bigger or smaller than the old model 4 ?)


What I said about about the Schimmel Konzert series piano I played was:
Quote

But the high end sustain was just average on the piano I played. It was not on par with the Bosendorfer or Grotrian verticals that I also tried. I likely would prefer a YUS5 or K800 to any Schimmel upright.

I also said prior it would be a downgrade of the piano I have with respect to sustain of treble tone. I’m not sure why both of those statements invoke so much discord, but they were my experience, and are not inconsistent with your audition result.

The Konzert series does have a different action from the Classic series.

I was actually responding to WeakLefthand .,We all have different experiences with pianos.I had to go to the dealer as I am thinking of getting caster cups for my piano.We are getting a new furnace
in our home and there is an aspect water which has to be drained off ! So I am of course terrified of a water spill (pray it never happens )near or around the piano.(The reason for castor cups ?)
While there I tried the small Schimmel.The action and sound is fine.

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892898 09/22/19 02:38 AM
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Surely the Classic series ,Schimmel uses Renner in thier instruments?

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
WeakLeftHand #2893175 09/22/19 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand

And someone mentioned Schimmel above and said it’s a very unique action that you either love or hate. Put me in the hate camp. Hated every one I tried. And I didn’t get it because it was supposed to be high-end.


It's not unique. It's Renner, as used by most of the European makers.


I played an Estonia 168, 190, 210 and loved those. I think they were Renner too? Nearly bought the 168, but I hated the Schimmels. Don’t know why. And it certainly was the feel I couldn’t get over.


Me, too, and I don't quite know why. I much preferred the tone and feel of the Estonias I've played, and the 210 was especially nice...probably my second choice of pianos I played when looking. With Schimmel I liked neither the sound nor the feel of the grands I tried...and I was expecting to like them a lot after researching them extensively.

So it's great that we still have some choice among top-end instruments, since we all have our preferences. cool


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893210 09/22/19 07:47 PM
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Well the weekend is over, maybe Letsplayit will come back and give us an update? Did you go to the sale? How was it??


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Lady Bird #2893216 09/22/19 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Surely the Classic series ,Schimmel uses Renner in thier instruments?


Renner is the brand of action used. There would be many different models.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893235 09/22/19 10:13 PM
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Sweelinck,
I do not know what your problem is ? Both the Konzert and the Classic (Tradition)are made in Germany!!! (unless Brand Profiles is lying!!!) The Konzert does NOT make a 46"model .The piano
I casually tried had a beautifully sonorous tone and the ACTION WAS FINE !
It was the C116 (in case you want to BUY it ,it cost $21,000 (SMP)It was better than a U1 or a K300 !
Perhaps it's better than a U3 or K500 ,I do not know and do not care!!!
Schimmel make a number of different series pianos .International (materials sourced world wide )Wilhelm (and Fridolin Schimmel made in China.)
I do not think the Classic series have a 130 size like the Konzert .The huge soundboard and design in
the K 130 will make for a far better piano than the 49 " Classic .Otherwise write to Schimmel or Renner if it still bothers you.,find out what type of Renner Schimmel uses ?
What is the brand of your upright piano? Does it use Renner ?

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/22/19 10:17 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893261 09/23/19 12:50 AM
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I don’t have a problem. Why would you think so? I played a Schimmel Konzert series upright some years ago. The action was like no other I upright I’ve played, which includes some Schimmel Classic series uprights. I didn’t form a clear opinion on whether I liked the the Konzert series upright action. I was just trying to point out that my experience of Konzert uprights was the action is different from other uprights with Renner actions I’ve played. You seemed to be saying that they all should be the same because they are Renner actions, and I was just trying to reiterate that I did not believe that was the case. Why do you find that controversial?


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Sweelinck #2893265 09/23/19 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
I don’t have a problem. Why would you think so? I played a Schimmel Konzert series upright some years ago. The action was like no other I upright I’ve played, which includes some Schimmel Classic series uprights. I didn’t form a clear opinion on whether I liked the the Konzert series upright action. I was just trying to point out that my experience of Konzert uprights was the action is different from other uprights with Renner actions I’ve played. You seemed to be saying that they all should be the same because they are Renner actions, and I was just trying to reiterate that I did not believe that was the case. Why do you find that controversial?

I find your obsessive attitude very odd.No one is saying all Renner actions are the SAME ?You KEEP
speeking about the action on the Konzert because I said the action is perfect on the C116 ?
Its perfect for THAT piano on THAT EXPERIENCE I had .I never had anyone take the piano apart
to look at the action.I played it ,it was SENSITIVE and RESPONSIVE ! Better than K300 or a U1 .
That says a great deal about a SMALL piano ! The tone was sonorous, the bass quite full and round.
It certainly is not the BOTTOM of the Bucket when it came to Schimmel, no !
You have not said what type of piano you have ?
There are quite a few VERY GOOD German pianos ,and I think a NUMBER share the same Renner action as the Konzert 130.

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893276 09/23/19 02:52 AM
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It is a 1912 Brinkerhoff upright. The sound board has not lost its crown. I purchased it from a dealer who had prepped it. The original hammers still have plenty of life, and the instrument produces a very sonorous vintage tone that I like. The piano has a silencing rail for quiet practice which may explain the low miles on the hammers because this drops felt in between the hammers and strings.

About 14 years ago a piano technician who serviced the instrument replaced the repetition springs with much higher quality springs than were originally in the action, and regulated the action. The end result was a very smooth playing action with good repetition for an upright. The action plays like a new, good quality upright at present. Another technician did some voicing to address one slight (but noticeable to me) outlier note, and I am happy with the result.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893282 09/23/19 03:13 AM
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Yes I looked under an antique piano site and saw a picture of a similar piano to yours.! I would love to hear it but if your phone records as badly as mine does, then do not worry. I love old pianos and apart from the old Seiler my aunt gave me ,I also had an old Broadwood which was also very nice.I agree keep the tuning that makes you happy and is most practical. I am not sure when that old Seiler was made ,but do know it was pre WW2 (not as early as yours) .I think my niece still has it in England .I do not know if it's still played ?
Your piano sounds like an excellent piano ! (that's all we can ask for)

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/23/19 03:19 AM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893285 09/23/19 03:36 AM
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You can approximately date many vintage pianos here:

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/ages/


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893287 09/23/19 04:01 AM
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Brinkerhoff made player pianos, but a unique piano they made was a player piano with the ability to cut piano rolls as well. Thus, you could record yourself play onto a piano roll and then playback the recording. Of course similar instruments existed to cut piano rolls, possibly without playback on the same instrument, not sure, but the Brinkerhoff one made it possible for a family of some means, but not necessarily wealthy, to afford one. Between that and the silencing rail activated by the middle pedal, they seemed to anticipate the 21st century 100+ years ago.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893381 09/23/19 12:08 PM
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I have two things to comment on.

First, there is a lot of criticism about pressure at "events". Keep in mind that at most of these events 20 or more pianos are sold. Assuming that there are 40 pianos offered, about 1/2 of those available on the first day of the sale will no longer be available on the last day. This is a fact, so is it unfair pressure to point this out?

Also, in this thread several pianos are referred to as being "excellent". In my 60+ years in the business, I have sold many dozens of Baldwin consoles. While they have been well suit to a beginning student, none were "excellent", a word that has been, IMHO used carelessly.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893403 09/23/19 12:46 PM
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Quote
First, there is a lot of criticism about pressure at "events". Keep in mind that at most of these events 20 or more pianos are sold. Assuming that there are 40 pianos offered, about 1/2 of those available on the first day of the sale will no longer be available on the last day. This is a fact, so is it unfair pressure to point this out?


No, it is not unfair to point this out, and it's actually preferable that it be pointed out, under the circumstances. This is different from someone in a regular shop who puts a lot of pressure on the buyer to decide right away, who uses scare tactics or one-day only special prices to try to get the person to make a purchase on their first visit to the store.

When I wrote (at least I believe I wrote? it's been several days now)...
Anyway, when I wrote that I don't like pressure, what I meant is not that I don't want to know about the possibility of someone else purchasing a piano I'm interested in. What I meant is, I don't like to buy in a situation where I can't take my time, sleep on it, come back another day and play the piano again etc. And also, if it's a brand or an age I'm less familiar with, I'd want to have time to research it a little etc. Even more important, I wouldn't want to buy without having the piano inspected by *my* tech, but when I first go to a dealer's where there are multiple pianos, I could be test-playing for hours before I settle on 2 or 3 that are contenders. That makes arranging for an independent inspection (in one of these university sales) logistically complicated at the least.

In my piano search this summer, there were three dealers that I visited 3-4 times each, playing the same pianos. (There were other places, or other pianos, that I only played once and knew I wasn't interested in) . Ultimately, the piano I eventually bought, which was sold by a private seller, I visited 4 times before I decided to buy it. (The seller was very patient!!) And it wasn't until the fourth visit that I brought along my tech. So, I only paid for one tech inspection as well. OTOH, one of the pianos I played that I absolutely loved on first play, the second time I visited the store, I decided it wasn't all that great.

So, that's what I mean. A piano is a huge purchase (physically and financially). It's not like you can easily return it if you end up not liking it. So I personally would not want to purchase from a limited time only sale, the risk is too great IMO.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893480 09/23/19 05:44 PM
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I cannot imagine anyone allowing themselves to be rushed into buying a piano like that.
This comes from someone who once made a mistake and bought a BAD "grey " Yamaha
upright a YU10 which had some kind of damage.(water ?)Fortunately we were able to return
the piano and were refunded.The piano I traded in for this damaged piano was my U1.
Although only a few days had gone by ,my 1980's U1 was already sold ! (or so I was told ?)
However I do not want to say anything more negative about the dealer since he agreed to
refund us.
We had to pay for the removal of the YU10 from our home and for it to be retuned in the store.
The dealer technician however was never very good at tuning anyway , however ?
Never buy a piano in a hurry ! (Like I did !)

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/23/19 05:47 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Steve Cohen #2893514 09/23/19 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
I have two things to comment on.

First, there is a lot of criticism about pressure at "events". Keep in mind that at most of these events 20 or more pianos are sold. Assuming that there are 40 pianos offered, about 1/2 of those available on the first day of the sale will no longer be available on the last day. This is a fact, so is it unfair pressure to point this out?


All that is saying is that the pressure is not based on giving the prospective buyer false information to create the illusion of a deadline or scarcity. One perhaps instead should interpret that as evidence that nobody should buy any pianos at these sales because they won’t have a chance to sleep on it and return a few days later to a store to complete the purchase after finalizing a decision.
Quote

Also, in this thread several pianos are referred to as being "excellent".

Having played many Acrosonic pianos, my position has been and still is that these pianos have a lovely treble tone with sufficient sustain not to limit a pianist who wants to play in a cantabile style, which is more than I can say for many new pianos in suitable price ranges for a beginning pianist.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893524 09/23/19 08:15 PM
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One perhaps instead should interpret that as evidence that nobody should buy any pianos at these sales because they won’t have a chance to sleep on it and return a few days later to a store to complete the purchase after finalizing a decision.


Ultimately that was my conclusion. Well, that plus the fact that 1) the sale organizers wouldn't tell me beforehand anything specific about what pianos would be available - i.e. they could say "we will be selling uprights and grands from Yamaha, Kawai, Boston, Steinway" but couldn't/wouldn't say anything like "we will have a 5 y/o Boston 163 and a 15 y/c Yamaha C3;" and 2) they wouldn't tell me any prices or even price ranges over the phone.


So it was all pressure (decide on the spot) and no advance info. And I said no thank you.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2893587 09/24/19 02:57 AM
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Quote

There are quite a few VERY GOOD German pianos ,and I think a NUMBER share the same Renner action as the Konzert 130.

Yes there are some very good German uprights. I’ve played Bosendorfer (actually Austrian) and Grotrian uprights. I believe both had Renner actions. Both were superb pianos, and both were significantly more expensive pianos than the Schimmel Konzert 132, if list price is an indication.

Schimmel describes the Konzert 132 upright as having the Konzert grand piano action, whatever that means:

https://schimmelpianos.com.au/product/konzert-k132-tradition/

I am not aware of any high end German uprights with Renner grand actions. I believe the Konzert 132 uses an action where Schimmel is trying to simulate the feel of a Schimmel grand with the action. I don’t know if it is a Renner-built action, Renner action that Schimmel modified, Renner-built action that was modified by Renner at Schimmel’s request, or Schimmel built action.


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Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Sweelinck #2893589 09/24/19 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Quote

There are quite a few VERY GOOD German pianos ,and I think a NUMBER share the same Renner action as the Konzert 130.

Yes there are some very good German uprights. I’ve played Bosendorfer (actually Austrian) and Grotrian uprights. I believe both had Renner actions. Both were superb pianos, and both were significantly more expensive pianos than the Schimmel Konzert 132, if list price is an indication.

Schimmel describes the Konzert 132 upright as having the Konzert grand piano action, whatever that means:

https://schimmelpianos.com.au/product/konzert-k132-tradition/

I am not aware of any high end German uprights with Renner grand actions. I believe the Konzert 132 uses an action where Schimmel is trying to simulate the feel of a Schimmel grand with the action. I don’t know if it is a Renner-built action, Renner action that Schimmel modified, Renner-built action that was modified by Renner at Schimmel’s request, or Schimmel built action.


Well terminaldegree is involved in the piano faculty , at a university an excellent pianist ,and a technician, and in case you do not know it, he used to own this very Schimmel Konzert 130 which I
remember him writing about .He seemed very pleased with it. As he told you it was a Renner action !
My Sauter has a very good Renner action as well !

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