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Ringing sound G3 #2892868
09/21/19 10:56 PM
09/21/19 10:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 26
I
Idotdot Offline OP
Full Member
Idotdot  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 26
The G3 note on my kawai GM-12 has a ringing overtone.

I have had a technician who tried to voice it buy needling the hammer but that didn’t help. My challenge was he couldn’t hear it as well as I did. But I can hear it and it’s hard to ignore.

Linking some videos which will give you an idea. I hope you can hear it smile

https://photos.app.goo.gl/y5CZSH81Wa7fhHZz5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KcZs68caD77A6ejU6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aauj25AQKpEsKWKdA

Any advice on how to fix this ?

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Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: Idotdot] #2892871
09/21/19 11:05 PM
09/21/19 11:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
Sounds like the hammer needs to be mated tobthe strings.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: Idotdot] #2893112
09/22/19 02:18 PM
09/22/19 02:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,821
The Heart of Screenland
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KurtZ Offline
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KurtZ  Offline
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K

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,821
The Heart of Screenland
I had something similar with my upright. Two techs (one was the store tech) either didn't hear it or failed to make it go away. The third tech heard and solved it. IMC, it was hammer mating as Peter Grey suggested below.

Kurt


**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: Idotdot] #2893131
09/22/19 03:14 PM
09/22/19 03:14 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,971
SE USA
WhoDwaldi Offline
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WhoDwaldi  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,971
SE USA
I've been getting a faint ring on the B above middle C. It persists after the damper lowers.

Could this be "damper bleed" or could it be hammer mating?

It's always worst when my tech is not around. 😁 He tightened a bunch of screws on the music desk after suspected a sympathetic ring there or from some object in the room (like a picture frame).


WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: Idotdot] #2893170
09/22/19 05:29 PM
09/22/19 05:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
If the strings are not level and the damper is not fully contacting evenly, you can get a bleed through. If it is a trichord damper that comes down between the strings it must be determined which string(s) are not adequately damped. Essentially same with a flat damper. Corrective measures start with correct diagnosis. Also depends on how long it has been this way. Felt can get set in its ways. Sometimes tilting the damper head works, either front to back or side to side. Depends. Diagnose first...then fix.

If string level gets changed then hammer mating will need to be changed to match.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 09/22/19 05:30 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: P W Grey] #2893192
09/22/19 06:46 PM
09/22/19 06:46 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,971
SE USA
WhoDwaldi Offline
2000 Post Club Member
WhoDwaldi  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,971
SE USA
Originally Posted by P W Grey
If the strings are not level and the damper is not fully contacting evenly, you can get a bleed through. If it is a trichord damper that comes down between the strings it must be determined which string(s) are not adequately damped. Essentially same with a flat damper. Corrective measures start with correct diagnosis. Also depends on how long it has been this way. Felt can get set in its ways. Sometimes tilting the damper head works, either front to back or side to side. Depends. Diagnose first...then fix.

If string level gets changed then hammer mating will need to be changed to match.

Pwg


It's only just started, flat damper. Thanks, I'll work with my tech on it.

Does any of this possibly have to do with the infamous "plate ring" that used to be discussed here? My piano is essentially a KG2-C Kawai from 1977.


WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: Idotdot] #2893206
09/22/19 07:18 PM
09/22/19 07:18 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,018
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,018
Georgia, USA
I suspect I’ve only heard that phenomenon on 2 pianos in my life (neither were Kawai). Probably better to have the tech sort through much more likely causes first.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: P W Grey] #2893242
09/22/19 11:11 PM
09/22/19 11:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 26
I
Idotdot Offline OP
Full Member
Idotdot  Offline OP
Full Member
I

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by P W Grey
If the strings are not level and the damper is not fully contacting evenly, you can get a bleed through. If it is a trichord damper that comes down between the strings it must be determined which string(s) are not adequately damped. Essentially same with a flat damper. Corrective measures start with correct diagnosis. Also depends on how long it has been this way. Felt can get set in its ways. Sometimes tilting the damper head works, either front to back or side to side. Depends. Diagnose first...then fix.

If string level gets changed then hammer mating will need to be changed to match.

Pwg


Thanks so much. I also have some base notes that sound dull. Could it be because of the same reason?

Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: Idotdot] #2893316
09/23/19 08:03 AM
09/23/19 08:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
Probably not related to dampers. However, bichord unisons in which the hammer is striking one string before the other (due to errant mating) can sound "duller" than notes that are well mated. They often will also produce a somewhat "twangy" (hard to describe high partial stuff) sound. Any hammer "voicing" will be fruitless if this condition exists.

If hammers have wear on them (increasing the strike point surface area) this complicates matters. Uneven wear will also produce uneven tone/volume/voicing. Hammers should be regularly reshaped and mated to strings. Only a small % of people do this because it takes time and expertise and therefore costs money.

Nonetheless, one must ideally be AT the piano to accurately diagnose and improve this kind of stuff.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: P W Grey] #2893350
09/23/19 10:10 AM
09/23/19 10:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 26
I
Idotdot Offline OP
Full Member
Idotdot  Offline OP
Full Member
I

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by P W Grey
Probably not related to dampers. However, bichord unisons in which the hammer is striking one string before the other (due to errant mating) can sound "duller" than notes that are well mated. They often will also produce a somewhat "twangy" (hard to describe high partial stuff) sound. Any hammer "voicing" will be fruitless if this condition exists.

If hammers have wear on them (increasing the strike point surface area) this complicates matters. Uneven wear will also produce uneven tone/volume/voicing. Hammers should be regularly reshaped and mated to strings. Only a small % of people do this because it takes time and expertise and therefore costs money.

Nonetheless, one must ideally be AT the piano to accurately diagnose and improve this kind of stuff.

Pwg


Appreciate the detailed response. Thanks a ton.

Re: Ringing sound G3 [Re: Idotdot] #2893442
09/23/19 02:33 PM
09/23/19 02:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,599
New Hampshire
👍

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8

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