2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
70 members (bwv872, andredatele, Bill McKaig,RPT, anotherscott, achoo42, accordeur, brendon, 24 invisible), 674 guests, and 496 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 12 of 17 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 16 17
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2889902 09/13/19 09:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,678
Sure, but ... pedaled harpsichord is neither piano nor harpsichord! smile

(ad)
Sweetwater Gifts That Rock
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892223 09/20/19 05:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 382
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 382
From their VI-Control thread, posted yesterday:

Quote
We have one problem left to solve -- it should be done within a few days now...


Any day now, guys. Any day. Literally almost finished, just one more tiny problem left to solve. It's as good as done.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Grazilerimba #2892556 09/21/19 04:11 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5
smile

Solving the Walker "one left problem" is becoming as challenging and unpredictable as Fermat's last theorem.

Centuries from now, there will be numerous attempts, papers, math conferences, Nobel price nominations, Eureka moments and many, many more "it should be done within a few days now...".
Understandably, generations to come will still empathize with the fearless pioneers at Embertone who, already around the dawn of the third millennium, attempted to sample a piano.

Joke aside, the last "any day now" announcement is already close to one month old.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892566 09/21/19 05:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,319
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,319
Patience is a virtue, my son. Good things come in small packages and to those who wait. The sky is always blue if you look through colored sunglasses. There’s more to life than the sum of its parts.

May the force be with you! (exclamation point used for emphasis).

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892604 09/21/19 08:23 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5
smile Thanks dad. I see it! I see it now! smile

If you allow me a little--not totally uncalled for--sarcasm, back in the day they used to write stuff like this on the back of matchboxes...later we had the wisdom bits dispensers.
Nowadays I am sure there are apps for this.
That said, I am sure these wise words came out of your own observations.

Also, while a totally agree that life is more than the sum of its parts, it's still up to us to make sure that the parts which we do have any sort of control over are in good shape. Otherwise it's a sum of ... a pile of...you know...

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892605 09/21/19 08:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,319
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,319
My parts are in excellent shape. wink

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Grazilerimba #2892800 09/21/19 04:38 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 686
K
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
From their VI-Control thread, posted yesterday:

Quote
We have one problem left to solve -- it should be done within a few days now...


Any day now, guys. Any day. Literally almost finished, just one more tiny problem left to solve. It's as good as done.


Yes, apparently they're almost ready with their next excuse, but just need a few more days to perfect the wording.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892913 09/22/19 03:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
There are to many classical pianists over here that should play on an acoustic and only (when acoustic options are momentarely out of order) practice on whatever 88 keybed/slap that will make them appreciate the acoustic versions even more.
I don’t want to be rude to anyone, but the complaints about the Embertone being a miserable piano vst because it can’t do some proper re-pedalling or half pedalling gets a little long in the tooth.
Use an acoustic for that or a vst that does the trick.
Sell or delete the Walker 1955 or use it in a context that will bring a smile on your face.

I personally ( as an acoustic piano expert ) am extremely puzzled that people buy Yamaha Avant Grands.
Because the hammer shank ( instead of the felt hammerheads vs a tense string) bounces against a rail creating a different feel than what happens in a real grand piano.
I am certainly one of the few who immidiatly notices the differences between those real actions that bounces back in position with a different kind of bounce ( both in position and material) and the wanna bees.
I won’t simply buy such action or a silent system ( same problem).

The Walker 1955 is a superbly sounding piano vst that sounds organic like not many other vst’s. The sustain is marvelous.
I highly prefer it to those vst’s who properly mimick all aspects of an acoustic ( very much in doubt) but sound cold, harsh and uninspiring from a sound perspective.
But like i said, those into perfectly mimicking pedal behaviour & co are the majority in here.
That’s of course their very good right.... but i feel the Walker 1955 should be applauded much more for what it currently is.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892923 09/22/19 04:49 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5
Nobody called the Walker a "miserable" piano. Again, the critique is not aimed at its sound or how much bang we got for our buck.
In fact, the only reason why people are still vocal about it is exactly because they consider it to be a good piano library, yet a little rough around the edges. Had it been a "miserable" piano, people would have stopped talking about it months ago.

Once again, it's the empty promises that stirred some of us up.

I haven't yet played enough AvantGrants to form an opinion about the action, but this has just as little to do with the current thread as your previous remarks about the VSL pianos.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
pianistje #2892924 09/22/19 04:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,678
Complaints about defects are never "long in the tooth". Defects need to be remedied.
Originally Posted by pianistje
I don’t want to be rude to anyone, but the complaints about the Embertone being a miserable piano vst because it can’t do some proper re-pedalling or half pedalling gets a little long in the tooth.
CyberGene has much to say about this defect. Bravo. Defects are to be disparaged, not tolerated.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892925 09/22/19 05:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,319
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,319
About the implied “improper” bounce in the AvantGrands supposedly due to the hammers bouncing off a rail instead of hitting a string, I’ve not heard anyone complaining about this; however, the Alpha Piano uses a ‘string-like’ sensor component that is struck -just as a string would be- with real hammers.
Is this string-like approach the way to go forward, or is the more common approach (non-contact sensors) a more practical and cost-effective technology?

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
cuzzinlouie #2892926 09/22/19 05:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by cuzzinlouie
Nobody called the Walker a "miserable" piano. Again, the critique is not aimed at its sound or how much bang we got for our buck.
In fact, the only reason why people are still vocal about it is exactly because they consider it to be a good piano library, yet a little rough around the edges. Had it been a "miserable" piano, people would have stopped talking about it months ago.

Once again, it's the empty promises that stirred some of us up.

I haven't yet played enough AvantGrants to form an opinion about the action, but this has just as little to do with the current thread as your previous remarks about the VSL pianos.

Yes sorry , my AG comment are off topic only to illustrate what a wrong decision it would be for me buying a N1,2,3 and complaining what it can’t do but should do according to the brochure ( accurate acoustic action behaviour which it does not )

I personally have deleted 80% of all my piano libraries at some point without complaining much enjoying what i like even more.
I truly wonder if people enjoy and still play the Walker or keep it around just in case the magic update arrives.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
pianistje #2892930 09/22/19 05:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,678
This is puzzling. In an acoustic action the hammer becomes disengaged from the whippen before it strikes the string.

In the AG series pianos ... doesn't the hammer disengage likewise?
If so, how can you distinguish a hammer rebounding from a string from a hammer rebounding from a rail?

Or have I misinterepreted you?
Originally Posted by pianistje
... the hammer shank (instead of the felt hammerheads vs a tense string) bounces against a rail creating a different feel than what happens in a real grand piano.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892936 09/22/19 06:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
I also think in terms of what you feel it doesn’t matter if the hammer bounces off a rail or string. In both cases it will be caught by the backcheck. A small difference would be the bounce speed but I doubt it can change the feel in any way or if that speed is so different. I think from all possible complaints one can have against AG and NV10 that’s the least concern.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2892938 09/22/19 06:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
Oh, and speaking abound rebound. In alpha piano there are flexible PCB-s, not strings. How can you be sure they have the same elastic properties. Furthermore, the rebound will depend on whether the string is already vibrating and that’s also different since alpha piano doesn’t have dampers to stop the PCB vibration if there’s any at all...

If you think rebound is important and since silent piano also engage a stop rail, you need to have real strings with no soundboard so that the piano is silent. Why all the hassle for just a rebound?


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
CyberGene #2893642 09/24/19 09:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
When i was at my piano tuner/technician school in the late eighties one of my teachers made a single key action to put on display at the Frankfurther Messe.
You know the key+action that a proper pianostore has to show the client how the action actually works.
Differences, my teacher added a really small soundboard , pinblock and three real strings so that it had an A440 and real action !!

Those claiming the rebound is futile should asks themselves if a basketball player notices any differences in surface.... i think they do because of the re-bound and vibration differences that were determined by the type of surface.
Furthermore the energy gained by hitting strings vibrates differently through the wooden action than hitting a rail with the shank.
There are many books written about how to play 'through' the keys and influence the final outcome of your tone.
I think most of it is esoteric with some merit....but i personally feel the differences between a hammerhead hitting strings compared to the shank hitting a rail.
And i did try with real actions many times to see if it was imaginary or not.....
During regulation on a bench the position of the strings is pre-fixed by a wooden device to make sure your regulation is spot on when installing the action back into the grand piano cabinet.
The felt hammerheads bounce back from a wooden bridge and it feels different the moment the action is in it's proper environment hitting the strings again.
How it bounces back and vibrates makes a whole lot of difference to me.
Sure some of it must be imaginary, some of it isn't.
If you ever get the oppertunity try to see if what i say has some validity by doing the test yourself.



Last edited by pianistje; 09/24/19 09:05 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
pianistje #2893656 09/24/19 10:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
Originally Posted by pianistje

During regulation on a bench the position of the strings is pre-fixed by a wooden device to make sure your regulation is spot on when installing the action back into the grand piano cabinet.
The felt hammerheads bounce back from a wooden bridge and it feels different the moment the action is in it's proper environment hitting the strings again.
How it bounces back and vibrates makes a whole lot of difference to me.

But when you insert the action in the piano you hear the entire piano generating sound and vibrations in a soundboard that you feel with your fingers smile Of course it feels different than just the action extracted and hitting a wooden rail. How do you know that your mind can negate the effect of sound and vibration to compare only rebound effect? It's not the rebound that you feel but the entire acoustic piano IMO. And you forget something: AvantGrand and Novus pianos are digital pianos, they are not acoustic piano replacements. Of course there are some sacrifices in using a non-acoustic piano but just dismissing the most realistic digital pianos ever made (and I don't think that's an overestimation) because you attribute something to what you think is rebound is in my opinion too extreme. Well, how about regular digital pianos? They are even "worse" smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/24/19 10:17 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Gabriel Hikaru #2893677 09/24/19 11:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by CyberGene

But when you insert the action in the piano you hear the entire piano generating sound and vibrations in a soundboard that you feel with your fingers smile Of course it feels different than just the action extracted and hitting a wooden rail. How do you know that your mind can negate the effect of sound and vibration to compare only rebound effect? It's not the rebound that you feel but the entire acoustic piano IMO. And you forget something: AvantGrand and Novus pianos are digital pianos, they are not acoustic piano replacements. Of course there are some sacrifices in using a non-acoustic piano but just dismissing the most realistic digital pianos ever made (and I don't think that's an overestimation) because you attribute something to what you think is rebound is in my opinion too extreme. Well, how about regular digital pianos? They are even "worse" smile

Let me start with the latter... i recently accompagnied a client/friend for a whole day looking for a grand piano.
I advised him to also look at the N3X, because i know he is only able to play in the evening and doesn't like to be heard either.
His level is mediocre, but money no issue.
After playing theYamaha S6, C3 and many others he was clearly the most comfortable with the adjustable N3X...much against his initial bias against digitals.
So i urged him to go for the N3X and the delivery will be in november this year.
The NX3 tries to emulate a real grand piano and it's still off by some margin soundwise and also the action is not comparable with what you feel when playing a top regulated grand piano.
We went to several shops and also played extremely expensive Steingraebers , Bechsteins, Bosendorfers etc..
Also the Yamaha S6 is on a whole different level compared to the N3X.


N3X with headphones ? Binaural samples ? Nice ...and that's the most positive compliment i can give.
I personally have the Kawai MP11 SE and the internal sounds are bad to my ears, despite the fact that i respect that others like them.
Both Yamaha and Kawai sound like we are back in the early 2000 with all sorts of memory protected solutions.
I still kick myself for going software only five years ago, because i was stubborn and stupid for far to long.
A top piano vst with headphones sound superiour than anything that Yamaha or Kawai offers in their N series and Novus which was confirmed when trying both out again for hours.

Psychologically an 88 action + piano vst does not appeal to this ''grand piano wannabe'' like the N3X, ...because the latter is much more expensive, has the looks and pretentions of a grand piano replacement. Whereas the software piano is an oppertunity to play and enjoy piano sounds for all kinds of purposes and sound sculpture.
I personally enjoy this set up very much, because i don't ever think i am sitting behind a placebo grand piano.
Heck i even bought pianoteq last week and i like it a lot because it is so extremely playable...soundwise mehh,...but others like the Walker 1955 can cover for that.

My point is that i think that many classical pianists over here want that 'grand piano illusion'' while playing on a digital with or without software
I understand that completely, but i think all internal speakers are mediocre at best and that the action isn't what is advertised.
A top grand piano action plays more ''accurate/subtle'' than the Avant grands due to the sample translations and.... the absent felt/string combination..

....doesn't mean i don't advise some people to buy them because it will be the best choice for some and i am the first to support that notion.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
pianistje #2893679 09/24/19 11:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by pianistje
Heck i even bought pianoteq last week and i like it a lot because it is so extremely playable...soundwise mehh,...but others like the Walker 1955 can cover for that.

Another piano professional endorsement for "Pianoteq playability!" I should go back in the PW archives and make a big list of the pianoteq playability endorsements smile


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D
Tyrone Slothrop #2893706 09/24/19 12:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,274
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianistje
Heck i even bought pianoteq last week and i like it a lot because it is so extremely playable...soundwise mehh,...but others like the Walker 1955 can cover for that.

Another piano professional endorsement for "Pianoteq playability!" I should go back in the PW archives and make a big list of the pianoteq playability endorsements smile

The list size doubled in size with pianistje joining computerpro3 laugh JK


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Page 12 of 17 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 16 17

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Beginner looking for purchase advice
by savagekeys - 12/05/20 11:21 AM
Fazioli soundboards
by Withindale - 12/05/20 10:08 AM
Practice and resting
by Ubu - 12/05/20 05:25 AM
Strange phenomena....
by piano_primo - 12/05/20 12:55 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,279
Posts3,030,862
Members99,493
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4