2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
81 members (bobrunyan, almo82, astrotoy, Amusingprofessor, anotherscott, 8ude, Abdol, AWilley, 21 invisible), 642 guests, and 520 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892425 09/20/19 04:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
L
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
The OP is not wanting to spend this much.I agree if one
can find a very good used upright like your's Sweelinck
that would be great but these may be difficult to find.
Otherwise a K300 or U1 one are great for someone the
OP's level.
However a U3 or K500 have longer strings, bigger soundboards
So finding a way to get one of these ,used or new would
be great !

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Geusey #2892436 09/20/19 05:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,140
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,140
Originally Posted by Geusey
Originally Posted by Stubbie
Cynic alert. I think those types of sales continue because there is a reservoir of naive people--who have done no homework--out looking for a piano who actually do buy them. There are exceptions, of course, but by-and-large these pianos are sold to people who haven't informed themselves at all about pianos.


Fair. I think what I'm getting at is that there's nothing inherently wrong with the sale format itself, but the dishonesty that is commonly associated with them. If there is any obfuscation about which pianos are used and which are new, that is a huge red flag that shouldn't be ignored.

Still, I know I'm kind of a newcomer to this industry, but it disappoints me how much cynicism there is towards dealers by the piano community. Recently, I read a thread on this forum lamenting the decline in piano sales in the US over the last century, but that attitude immediately changes to contempt when talking about the ones who are doing the actual selling. I, for one, really like when a dealer goes out and does some marketing to try and grow the market and increase their business, as long as this is done with integrity. It raises the overall musical awareness in the community, which is good for everybody.


Regarding these so-called college/institution sales. They are almost all bogus, and most of us know it. They typically haul in pianos from some warehouse without telling the buyer that these pianos are mixed in with actual pianos from the institution in question...if the sale even includes any pianos from the institution. Who knows? Then there are the high-pressure sales tactics. Ugh. Even if the college or institution was selling only their own used pianos, the question remains why anyone would want a beat-up piano from a practice room or rehearsal space. Of course the people who go to these sales are not, as a rule, educated piano buyers but naives who think they are getting a deal when they are getting junk.

Sorry, Justin, but the skepticism and cynicism about piano dealers is well earned. It used to be the same with car dealers, but now anyone can find what is considered a fair price for a new or used car online, then present that to the dealer who almost always accepts it. We know what the car dealer likely paid for the vehicle, what the "hidden" fees are and how to avoid them, what kick-backs they may be getting from the manufacturer, etc.

There is no such help with pianos, so of course we are skeptical of piano dealers. For instance, Portland Pianos does not provide the price of any of their used piano inventory online. This forces people to call or email you...or come into the store. I understand you want people to come in (so you can "sell" them), but why not be up front about your prices? Just one example of why you see cynicism. The industry is anything but transparent, so of course we are suspicious...and should be. It may be that Portland Pianos is a fine dealership, but that's hard to tell when prices are obscured from the get-go. That doesn't encourage trust.

So all we can do as piano buyers is go to dealerships and try to get a sense of how honest and forthright the dealer is. Does the store look neat and tidy or junky? Are the pianos well prepped (at least tuned)? Does the sales person leave you alone to play or does he/she hover and keep talking? Does the dealer try to guide you toward a specific brand or piano (i.e., are they trying to maximize their profit by "guiding" you to pianos on which they stand to make the most profit)? If you say you want a technician to check out the piano, do they offer you to a technician they "know" who will do it for free? If you say you want to look at a specific size of instrument, do they try to up-sell or down-sell to a different size (i.e., clearing inventory)? Do they tell you that a piano you like has other people interested in it (so you had better act fast)? Do you see any actual technicians in the store, because at good dealerships they are there almost all the time, prepping pianos. Will the sales person let you talk to the technicians? Etc., etc, and so forth.

Look, we all understand that dealers need to sell pianos at a profit to stay in business. No one is begrudging them that. But for heaven's sake be forthright with customers and stop the sleazy sales crap.


August Förster 215
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Geusey #2892440 09/20/19 05:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,795
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,795
Originally Posted by Geusey
Originally Posted by Stubbie
Cynic alert. I think those types of sales continue because there is a reservoir of naive people--who have done no homework--out looking for a piano who actually do buy them. There are exceptions, of course, but by-and-large these pianos are sold to people who haven't informed themselves at all about pianos.


Fair. I think what I'm getting at is that there's nothing inherently wrong with the sale format itself, but the dishonesty that is commonly associated with them. If there is any obfuscation about which pianos are used and which are new, that is a huge red flag that shouldn't be ignored.

Still, I know I'm kind of a newcomer to this industry, but it disappoints me how much cynicism there is towards dealers by the piano community. Recently, I read a thread on this forum lamenting the decline in piano sales in the US over the last century, but that attitude immediately changes to contempt when talking about the ones who are doing the actual selling. I, for one, really like when a dealer goes out and does some marketing to try and grow the market and increase their business, as long as this is done with integrity. It raises the overall musical awareness in the community, which is good for everybody.
For certain there are good, honest dealers and there are not so good, not so honest dealers. Same as in any industry selling to the public. The buying public needs to do some homework so they can be informed shoppers. The good dealers will have no problem dealing with these informed buyers. In this day and age, anyone who doesn't hop online and do some research (maybe landing here on PW and maybe venturing into the Piano Buyer's Guide) is just not trying.


[Linked Image]
Yamaha C3X
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
AaronSF #2892462 09/20/19 07:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 23
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Stubbie
In this day and age, anyone who doesn't hop online and do some research (maybe landing here on PW and maybe venturing into the Piano Buyer's Guide) is just not trying.


Yeah, that's definitely true. There's so much info available online I don't see how anyone could make that kind of purchase totally uninformed.

Originally Posted by AaronSF
Look, we all understand that dealers need to sell pianos at a profit to stay in business. No one is begrudging them that. But for heaven's sake be forthright with customers and stop the sleazy sales crap


That's exactly what I mean. It's a shame that the industry has (probably rightfully) earned that reputation. I guess I shouldn't complain, it does work in my favor. As you pointed out, its not that hard to figure out who the good guys are. Especially in the age of online reviews where you can compare notes with other shoppers and see what their experiences are, word gets around when you stand out by treating people right.


Justin Johnson
Portland Piano Company
www.portlandpianocompany.com
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Lady Bird #2892499 09/20/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The OP is not wanting to spend this much.I agree if one
can find a very good used upright like your's Sweelinck
that would be great but these may be difficult to find.
Otherwise a K300 or U1 one are great for someone the
OP's level.
However a U3 or K500 have longer strings, bigger soundboards
So finding a way to get one of these ,used or new would
be great !

If the alternative is a U1 or K300, I think it is worth looking at some vintage instruments. I might even prefer a Baldwin Acrosonic spinet to a K300 or U1. The shorter keys would be my main issue with one, but they usually have lovely treble tone. Matching or exceeding the quality of a U3 or K500 with a vintage upright would take longer to find it, but that also can be done.

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892510 09/20/19 11:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
L
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
You would take a vintage spinet over a U1 or a K300 ? I think you are either a Romantic
(which is fine)I like some older pianos as well., but a spinet no !
This idea that new Japanese uprights are no good however is incorrect ! I do like your
Idealism Sweelinck,and can relate to it myself in my own search. I had 3 uprights in the
course of a few months.Two were returned, the 3rd one stayed .
I started my own music as a kid with a pre war Seiler, yes it sang but the key resistance was
"slack" but not bad ! (It was even and responsive)Later I needed something with a better action and my parents bought a Kawai grand.
The OP sounds like more or less a beginner and really needs an upright with a good action.
That is important .An old upright with an unequal action needs to be avoided .
A good newer upright piano will provide something for the OP to develop thier technique on.
I am not saying it is not possible with an old upright, but the piano needs to be even and responsive.
I think it is easier to make a mistake with an older upright !
A spinet is no good for developing good tone quality !

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892516 09/20/19 11:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
L
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
I would think a Schimmel 130 Konzert would have a great tone ! I have not tried one ,but yes I cannot
imagine that Schimmel has taken a " nose dive" just because it is owned by PR !
They still make these in Germany do they not !
Boston uprights have a mellow tone but I may as well be talking about the" man in the moon " "Boston pianos "do not seem to have a face ? They should change the name to something else perhaps? They are quite highly priced for a piano on the same level as the Kawai or Yamaha uprights.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/21/19 12:06 AM. Reason: Extra word
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892523 09/21/19 12:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,526

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,526
I went to a big piano sale about 20 years ago. It wasn't in a school though; it was in the local national guard armory, so I'm pretty sure they were trucked in from elsewhere! wink Anyway, I was looking at some studio uprights, and the "sales guy" turned out to be a guy I knew from college choir a couple years earlier. So, I thought it was no problem, no pressure etc, and I told him I was just looking. Well, the next thing you know, he turned up again with "the closer." I decided to just keep playing, and they wandered off in search of their next victims.



Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892525 09/21/19 12:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
Quote

You would take a vintage spinet over a U1 or a K300 ?

Not generally, but a Baldwin Acrosonic, potentially yes. Have you ever played one?

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892527 09/21/19 12:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
With regard to university piano sales, I’m pretty sure that having the university and its music dept lend their name to an annual piano sale to be held at a provided university facility is part of the lease agreement between the university and piano dealer/distributor, and enables the university to get a more attractive price on the lease. That the pianos used by the university are part of the sale is almost incidental, other than creating an aura of authority, that a buyer is purported to be getting an instrument that was selected by university music faculty.

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892529 09/21/19 12:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
Quote

I am not saying it is not possible with an old upright, but the piano needs to be even and responsive.

Absolutely. I would not have a piano where that was not the case.

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Lady Bird #2892532 09/21/19 01:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I would think a Schimmel 130 Konzert would have a great tone ! I have not tried one ,but yes I cannot
imagine that Schimmel has taken a " nose dive" just because it is owned by PR !
They still make these in Germany do they not !

Not sure when Pearl River bought them but I think the one I tried was from before the PR acquisition. These instruments have a very unique action, a kind of manufactured feel to them, only way I can describe it. You probably will either love the action or hate it. I found it very smooth. But the high end sustain was just average on the piano I played. It was not on par with the Bosendorfer or Grotrian verticals that I also tried. I likely would prefer a YUS5 or K800 to any Schimmel upright

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Sweelinck #2892546 09/21/19 03:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,399
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Quote

You would take a vintage spinet over a U1 or a K300 ?

Not generally, but a Baldwin Acrosonic, potentially yes. Have you ever played one?


The largest Acrosonic is 42.5” vs 48” for a U1. Perhaps I should have said console instead of spinet, but I generally lump those two categories together.

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892623 09/21/19 09:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
L
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,844
No I have not ever played a console Acrosonic or heard one ,yet I have read that quite a few PW members have had one of these to practice on .I have also heard that yes they were really good.
Baldwin must have been a remarkable manufacturer making wonderful grands and uprights like
these.
I am not from Canada originally but I presume a few of these are still around ?

Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892638 09/21/19 10:22 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,311
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,311
Tons of them are still around.

Here's the best sounding Acrosonic I've been able to find on youtube. The vast majority of Acrosonics showcased on youtube are much brighter and usually out of tune. Of course, some of those date back to the 1940s and probably have had little to no work done on them. smile

https://youtu.be/WFNt15GpKRU


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
letsplayit #2892640 09/21/19 10:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,477
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,477
In my search for a piano recently, I came across a used Baldwin (not Acrosonic) but maybe 45-46”? Didn’t seem too tall but not a spinet either. The sound was big bold and beautiful. Too bad I didn’t like the look of it though.

And someone mentioned Schimmel above and said it’s a very unique action that you either love or hate. Put me in the hate camp. Hated every one I tried. And I didn’t get it because it was supposed to be high-end.

I ended up with the tried and true, can’t make a mistake with it K500.


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
WeakLeftHand #2892644 09/21/19 10:36 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,311
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,311
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
In my search for a piano recently, I came across a used Baldwin (not Acrosonic) but maybe 45-46”? Didn’t seem too tall but not a spinet either. The sound was big bold and beautiful. Too bad I didn’t like the look of it though.

And someone mentioned Schimmel above and said it’s a very unique action that you either love or hate. Put me in the hate camp. Hated every one I tried. And I didn’t get it because it was supposed to be high-end.

I ended up with the tried and true, can’t make a mistake with it K500.


So you ultimately bought a K500 ???? Guess I missed that.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Carey #2892648 09/21/19 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,477
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,477
Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
In my search for a piano recently, I came across a used Baldwin (not Acrosonic) but maybe 45-46”? Didn’t seem too tall but not a spinet either. The sound was big bold and beautiful. Too bad I didn’t like the look of it though.

And someone mentioned Schimmel above and said it’s a very unique action that you either love or hate. Put me in the hate camp. Hated every one I tried. And I didn’t get it because it was supposed to be high-end.

I ended up with the tried and true, can’t make a mistake with it K500.


So you ultimately bought a K500 ???? Guess I missed that.



Yes I did! I announced it in one of the threads but I guess it was inconspicuous. I think it’s the safest choice for me.

I see you have one too. wink

It’s not here yet but that’s because my husband needs to fix the piano room first so we can give it a proper welcome. grin


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
WeakLeftHand #2892650 09/21/19 10:54 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,269
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,269
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand

And someone mentioned Schimmel above and said it’s a very unique action that you either love or hate. Put me in the hate camp. Hated every one I tried. And I didn’t get it because it was supposed to be high-end.


It's not unique. It's Renner, as used by most of the European makers.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Used Pianos from College Sales and other names ;-)
Lady Bird #2892652 09/21/19 10:55 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,269
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,269
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
No I have not ever played a console Acrosonic or heard one ,yet I have read that quite a few PW members have had one of these to practice on .I have also heard that yes they were really good.


I would characterize them as "less bad" rather than "really good" when it comes to console designs and executions.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Schimmel K 132
by Lady Bird - 12/04/20 04:16 PM
Pianoteq presets
by Eli26 - 12/04/20 03:47 PM
A hauntingly beutiful piece you probably never heard
by pianoloverus - 12/04/20 02:29 PM
Them Donners and Lagrimas
by jeffcat - 12/04/20 02:21 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,259
Posts3,030,504
Members99,480
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4