Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
137 registered members (Antihero, Ankee, 36251, AWilley, AndrewJCW, anotherscott, Barly, armani, accordeur, 35 invisible), 2,165 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard #2892300
09/20/19 10:02 AM
09/20/19 10:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
A
Ameron Offline OP
Junior Member
Ameron  Offline OP
Junior Member
A

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Hi, does anyone know some old or recent methods / compositions / performers focusing on the mirror symmetry (mirror axis D) of the keyboard? Thank you for your contributions!

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Ameron] #2892456
09/20/19 07:01 PM
09/20/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,137
T
Tim Adrianson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Tim Adrianson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,137
Hi, Ameron! And welcome to Piano World! Two composers I can think of that were fascinated by symmetry were Bela Bartok and Vincent Persichetti. In Mikrokosmos 6, Bartok explores symmetrical thinking in several of the pieces. Persichetti wrote an entire Sonata, called the "Mirror Sonata", based rigorously on symmetrical movement from varying pitch centers. Also, I just recently recorded the Sonata #1 by Finnish composer Einojuhani Rautavaara, many passages of which very clearly use symmetrical relationships.

Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Tim Adrianson] #2892597
09/21/19 07:55 AM
09/21/19 07:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
A
Ameron Offline OP
Junior Member
Ameron  Offline OP
Junior Member
A

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Thank you for providing these informations! I got aware of this phenomenon by the „9th Etude Inversion“ (Polyphonic Notebook / 25 Polyphonic Preludes, op. 50) composed by the Russian composer Rodion Schtschedrin (*1923), who was close with Dmitri Schostakowitsch. It's kind of strange that the possibilities of playing mirror symmetrically seem to be unexplored so far.

Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Ameron] #2892750
09/21/19 02:17 PM
09/21/19 02:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 142
R
rmns2bseen Offline
Full Member
rmns2bseen  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 142
I don't know if you mean music in which every note in the right hand is exactly "mirrored" simultaneously by corresponding notes in the left, but in terms of explorations of symmetry I don't think you can get much more symmetric than say, the canons from Bach's Musical Offering or the "mirror fugues" from the Art of Fugue. In fact, just about anything by Bach is in part an exploration of symmetry. As for exact "mirroring", I can't think of much.

Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Ameron] #2894708
09/27/19 04:27 AM
09/27/19 04:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
A
Ameron Offline OP
Junior Member
Ameron  Offline OP
Junior Member
A

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Thank you very much for your answer! I was thinking of mirror symmetric music where both hands use the same type of keyboard key (black/white) at the same time while playing in contrary motion, meaning that the interval structure and the performers haptical sensations on the keyboard are the same on both sides of the body. In the meantime i have read a book on Vincent Persichetti; there is mentioned a textbook regarding mirror symmetrical exercises by Bernhard Ziehn (1845–1912), but unfortunately i couldn't find it online.

Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Ameron] #2894869
09/27/19 01:37 PM
09/27/19 01:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 184
Suffolk, UK
S
Scordatura Offline
Full Member
Scordatura  Offline
Full Member
S

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 184
Suffolk, UK
Maybe they're already familiar to you, but Ernst Bacon has some paragraphs on mirror-form practising and its benefits in his book, Notes on the Piano.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

https://understanding-piano-technique.com/ocportal
Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Ameron] #2894984
09/27/19 09:59 PM
09/27/19 09:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,504
Dublin
johnstaf Online crying
2000 Post Club Member
johnstaf  Online Crying
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,504
Dublin
I think Marc-André Hamelin said he practised using mirror symmetry. I believe he did this with etudes that weren't written this way.

Last edited by johnstaf; 09/27/19 09:59 PM.
Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Scordatura] #2895199
09/28/19 12:31 PM
09/28/19 12:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
A
Ameron Offline OP
Junior Member
Ameron  Offline OP
Junior Member
A

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Thank you – i did'nt know the book of Ernst Bacon.

Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: johnstaf] #2895206
09/28/19 12:43 PM
09/28/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
A
Ameron Offline OP
Junior Member
Ameron  Offline OP
Junior Member
A

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
I found out, that jazz pianst Chick Corea also augmented his pianistic skills using the mirror symmetry of the keyboard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9UErT-m-k.
He mentions mirror symmetrical excercises by Florestano Rossomandi (1857–1933) but i don't know the name of the studies, i guess it was an italian textbook. Perhaps someone who reads this post can provide some information.

Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Ameron] #2910006
11/09/19 12:12 PM
11/09/19 12:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
A
Ameron Offline OP
Junior Member
Ameron  Offline OP
Junior Member
A

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
I finally found a lot of useful information regarding the mirror symmetry of the keyboard on this website: https://victoralcantara.de/en/buecher

Last edited by Ameron; 11/09/19 12:13 PM.
Re: The Mirror Symmetry of the Keyboard [Re: Ameron] #2910012
11/09/19 12:40 PM
11/09/19 12:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,504
Dublin
johnstaf Online crying
2000 Post Club Member
johnstaf  Online Crying
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,504
Dublin
I always think Chick Corea looks like Beethoven in those videos.


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
pianoworld site
by Jitin. 11/11/19 02:39 PM
Used K.Kawai GE-20
by Bigal87. 11/11/19 01:46 PM
Update on My Casio GP-500
by Tenor1. 11/11/19 11:55 AM
Piano made from 17 cellphones...
by camperbc. 11/11/19 08:18 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics195,018
Posts2,889,684
Members94,935
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1