2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
39 registered members (Dfrankjazz, fofig, Charades, Fer15, Animisha, CharlesXX, dobro, 7 invisible), 278 guests, and 430 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2891981 09/19/19 08:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,463
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,463
Don't get your hopes up.
1. That "breakthrough" was my discovery about six or so years ago that v4 was something less than terrible. That is ... version 4 was an imitation piano instead of a genuine noisemaker.
2. Little has been done in subsequent versions. The v4 progress has given way to stagnation. Yes, they now have a dozen or so flavors (Steinway, Bechstein, etc. etc.). But I'm not impressed with any of them.

So calm your nerves.
There's nothing to see here. Move along. Move along. smile

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2891983 09/19/19 08:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,874
CyberGene Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,874
TBH, I also felt that Mac might have moved to the other coast wink But I'm not afraid: lone warrior is still a warrior!


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: CyberGene] #2891986 09/19/19 09:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,445
Tyrone Slothrop Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,445
Originally Posted by CyberGene
But I'm not afraid: lone warrior is still a warrior!

but better than 1 warrior is 300


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2891987 09/19/19 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,874
CyberGene Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,874
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
But I'm not afraid: lone warrior is still a warrior!

but better than 1 warrior is 300

I’m more than 300 in one corpus: Mark 5:9


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2891988 09/19/19 09:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,463
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,463
One is the lonliest number that you ever knew.

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2891993 09/19/19 09:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
M
magnifico Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
May be there is some bias here. Because you bought some expensive sampled gear you prefer sampling to be in peace with yourselves smile

Last edited by magnifico; 09/19/19 09:54 AM.
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2891994 09/19/19 09:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
M
magnifico Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
Anyway sampling or modeling future will say.

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: MacMacMac] #2891997 09/19/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 126
P
pmh Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Don't get your hopes up.
1. That "breakthrough" was my discovery about six or so years ago that v4 was something less than terrible. That is ... version 4 was an imitation piano instead of a genuine noisemaker.
2. Little has been done in subsequent versions. The v4 progress has given way to stagnation. Yes, they now have a dozen or so flavors (Steinway, Bechstein, etc. etc.). But I'm not impressed with any of them.

So calm your nerves.
There's nothing to see here. Move along. Move along. smile


Oh well, another dose of salts down the drain. Sigh, Looks like I will have to get back to my pianoteq cyborg and take another trip down uncanny valley😳😳 I think I’ll choose the Beckstein as it seems to be both modelled and sampled😲 Best of both worlds😀

Paul H


Kemble Compact Acoustic Piano, Yamaha CVP 709 Polished White, Kawai MP11se, Pianoteq Standard, Galaxy Vintage D, Garritan CFX.
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: pmh] #2891998 09/19/19 10:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,246
johnstaf Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,246
Originally Posted by pmh
I think I've found the breakthrough!!! It's MacMacMac ever so slightly coming to pianoteq's defence. I think I need to sit down and uncork a good dose of smelling salts. This is too much even for my cast iron nerves.

Paul H


I think what he meant was he could tell what instrument they were trying to butcher by v4. grin

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: CyberGene] #2891999 09/19/19 10:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 867
magicpiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 867
Originally Posted by CyberGene
In their only patent Pianoteq clearly describe how they mix pre-recorded attack sample with a synthesized sustain that's made of sine waves according to the Fourier transformation with changing coefficients to follow the slight change in timbre of a real piano, as well as its volume, as well as counting for excitations by sympathetic resonance, etc.
The result was horrible. I remember the first Pianoteq versions sound... There were no bass frequencies, the attack sound of the hammer was incredible weak and many notes were too digital sounding. I think I read somewhere that now they use samples only for the hammer "thump" attack sound, but the vibration of the string is modeled. This is what I did a year ago in my experimental piano synth project and it worked well. The sound of the hammer is short but strong, rich and very difficult to model without sounding artificial.
Quote


We discussed that a lot here and at some point Philippe joined the thread and replied they didn't do that anymore (implicitly admitting that they did in previous versions) but refused to uncover how their engine worked as of late. I doubt they have drastically changed anything though. Yes, it's an assumption and speculation on my side but Pianoteq hasn't progressed too much since the beginning. It's been progressively better of course but it always kept that cimbalom character, although it's much subdued nowadays. But all that and the lack of any real leaps between versions makes me believe their underlying engine is ultimately the same with multiple small improvements and fine tunings here and there. Whether we know that or not, and whether it's shoveling sh*t, anybody is in their right to decide smile
Yes, from the v4 onwards, it is not changed too much. It's like they are more interested in adding new piano models instead of improving what they already have.

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2892000 09/19/19 10:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 867
magicpiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 867
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
But I'm not afraid: lone warrior is still a warrior!

but better than 1 warrior is 300

That's one of the movies with the worst color palette I ever seen...

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magicpiano] #2892003 09/19/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,445
Tyrone Slothrop Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,445
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
But I'm not afraid: lone warrior is still a warrior!

but better than 1 warrior is 300

That's one of the movies with the worst color palette I ever seen...

comic colors!


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: johnstaf] #2892012 09/19/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,232
Frédéric L Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,232
Originally Posted by johnstaf
The other pianos aren't based on an existing sampled piano. The Bechstein DG is based on the Bechstein Digital Grand.


I suspect all Pianoteq models based on a real piano are based on a sampled version of this piano. The difference between Bechstein and others is that Bechstein did the sampling while Modartt did the other samplings.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 09/19/19 11:07 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2892013 09/19/19 11:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 867
magicpiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 867
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
But I'm not afraid: lone warrior is still a warrior!

but better than 1 warrior is 300

That's one of the movies with the worst color palette I ever seen...

comic colors!

It has a super-dark palette, the contrasts are exaggerated and there is that strange yellowness in the 90% of the scenes... And I think many comics use a much more pleasing palette.
When I see that movie is as if someone were throwing dust in my eyes every 10 seconds. laugh

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: MacMacMac] #2892027 09/19/19 12:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
R
RogerRL Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Nope. In general the Fourier series is infinite.
Of course you can truncate the higher-order terms to get a reasonable approximation.
Indeed, in a finite world you must.
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
For periodic functions the Fourier series is finite so you can store all of the coefficients and have an exact (lossless) representation.
Or perhaps you meant something else and I've not taken your meaning?

Fourier of a perfect sine wave needs one term - the sin itself. Fourier of the sum of a sin(bo) + c cos (do) requires two terms. Etc. Maybe that is what is meant? Certainly the statement is not true for any arbitrary periodic function, such as the square wave function, which requires infinite terms for it to be analytically equal.


Shigaru Kawai SK-2, Kawai MP11SE
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2892029 09/19/19 12:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
M
magnifico Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
Fourrier is french smile

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2892039 09/19/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 276
J
JJHLH Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 276
Fourier was a good man. He also discovered the greenhouse effect.

I wonder if he played the piano.


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895.
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2892040 09/19/19 12:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
M
magnifico Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
Wow

Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: magnifico] #2892053 09/19/19 01:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 126
P
pmh Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 126
Wow indeed, is there no end to the breath and depth of knowledge displayed in this thread🤓

Paul H


Kemble Compact Acoustic Piano, Yamaha CVP 709 Polished White, Kawai MP11se, Pianoteq Standard, Galaxy Vintage D, Garritan CFX.
Re: What about an ideal Digital Piano? [Re: RogerRL] #2892078 09/19/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,232
Frédéric L Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,232
Originally Posted by RogerRL

Fourier of a perfect sine wave needs one term - the sin itself. Fourier of the sum of a sin(bo) + c cos (do) requires two terms. Etc. Maybe that is what is meant? Certainly the statement is not true for any arbitrary periodic function, such as the square wave function, which requires infinite terms for it to be analytically equal.

This is why we usually talk about the Fourier’s series. A series is an infinite sum. Then every periodic and continuous functions can be approximate with such a series.

The square wave is probably a bad example : it is not continuous, then the Fourier series will have the more precise approximation with higher and higher maximum when you add harmonics. There is a convergence, but it is not uniform.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Int/Midi button on Kawai MP11
by giu - 02/25/20 02:56 AM
New bass strings sound hollow
by Emery Wang - 02/25/20 01:01 AM
About Yamaha cx
by Fer15 - 02/24/20 11:48 PM
grades of pieces
by Kaori Miyamoto - 02/24/20 05:40 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,173
Posts2,929,680
Members96,104
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3