2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
30 registered members (dng, AZNpiano, Harpuia, Ken Iisaka, 3am_stargazing, grd-dan, 7 invisible), 394 guests, and 414 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2890932 09/16/19 09:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 903
T
thepianoplayer416 Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 903
The topic of read vs. ear training have been discussed at least once before. There is no definitive answer which is better. A while back I spoke several Suzuki teachers. They would make their students run through the pieces in Suzuki Book 1 by ear. The Suzuki way doesn't mean improvise, merely playing in the Classical style by memorizing sound pitches and imitating hand positions and fingerings from a teacher. After completing Book 1, a Suzuki student would relearn the same songs and introduced to reading the notes before moving onto Book 2.

Playing by ear refers to being able come up with some version of a melody that is recognizable and fill in some chords instead of following a piece of sheet music with the notes as written. The Suzuki way of ear training is for students to imitate a script that was written down by watching a teacher on the piano without seeing the script. It's like teaching someone to memorize quotations from Shakespeare by listening to you saying them without seeing the text.

I do agree the people who are successfully learning a foreign language learn to listen a lot and start speaking as much as possible from day 1. When it comes to European languages with the familiar Latin alphabet, it is easy to pick up reading. A lot of times when we listen to a foreign language like French or Spanish, our ears don't always pick up a conversation well in the first 6 months of learning but when we see the text on paper we can decipher a language quickly.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Iaroslav Vasiliev] #2890937 09/16/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
M
Manne janne Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Manne janne
It is my understanding that in the older days the kids at school had their first ear training and theory training by doing vocal exercices.
So in order to learn how music works you sing it?
Does singing help with sight-reading?


In order to learn how music works, you need to learn how to read it. In order to sight read well, you first need to read well, read a lot of music and develop a good understanding of the musical notation —/both notes and rhythm. There is no shortcut.

In the Russian music schools of the late 80's/early 90's, they taught solfège in order to help piano pupil's sight-read better. I think there are some theories about the connection of these things. I posted some research studies connecting solfège and sight-reading late last year on PW.

I know that the primary goals of solfege training, which is btw considered very important, is ear training and training of aural imagination. So it relates more to playing by ear. I'm sure it helps with sight reading, too, but only at the basic level.

I hope we are talking about movable solfege. I tried to learn the fixed vwrsion but it is just not correct.
Movable Do is way bettter as most of us use relative pitch.
I am also learning how to sing Gregorian chant so solfege os of utmost importance when reading the sheet music.

Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2890944 09/16/19 10:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,204
johnstaf Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,204
Originally Posted by Manne janne

I hope we are talking about movable solfege. I tried to learn the fixed vwrsion but it is just not correct.
Movable Do is way bettter as most of us use relative pitch.
I am also learning how to sing Gregorian chant so solfege os of utmost importance when reading the sheet music.


I had to study movable do in college. We used the Kodály method. I found it wonderful.

Initially, I didn't think I was getting any real benefit from it, until one day I realised that, when I heard music, it was automatically being turned into solfa in my head without me having to think about it.

Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2890957 09/16/19 11:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,496
T
TonyB Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,496
It is interesting how opposite guitar and piano seem to be in regard to this particular subject. With the guitar, many players seem to question being able to read standard notation as a useful skill, while on the piano, playing by ear seems to fall into that category.

From my perspective, playing both instruments, being able to do both makes the most sense to me. I got full time work as a professional guitar player in a trio that played supper clubs, resorts, and the Holiday Inn circuit back on the late 70s because I could read standard notation, as well as write out lead sheet charts. We played a lot of standards and that sort of music in nice rooms, rather than being a typical 3 chord rock bar band. I could figure out pop tunes by ear, so when we got requests for some MOR pop tune, I would hang a microphone over the juke box, record the tune, and learn it by ear, and then write a chart (lead sheet) for the others in the band.

I have never understood why anyone being interested in the craft of music would want to not learn the skills involved in playing music. Music is a HEARING art, so the ear should always be involved, but also communicating music over the centuries (i.e. the great musical conversation), is best done with written notation. I suppose there are some who can figure out a complex piece of music by ear, but for most of us, written notation sure helps with that music. Figuring out pop tunes can be done by ear and it is a skill, rather than a talent, that anybody who cares enough to do so can learn. That skill relies on relative pitch, which anybody can develop with practice, just as one can develop the ability to sight read. Leaving either skill out only serves to limit a player's horizons.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 09/16/19 11:07 AM.
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2890960 09/16/19 11:20 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
What has been lost in this academic discussion- all interesting by the way- is the OPs goal is stated as becoming a church organist. The strong skill that is 100% essential for this is reading the notated score well.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2890967 09/16/19 11:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,880
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,880
The OP seems to be looking for justifications as to why he should not bother to persevere with developing good reading skills.

So, to help him in his endeavours, I'll list all the reasons why learning to read music is superfluous grin:

1) If you only play or sing non-classical, you don't need to read music.

2) If you only want to play (any instrument) or sing by ear, you don't need to read music. You can always get someone to teach you to sing Hildegard of Bingen - or even simple Bach - by rote. Maybe.......

3) If you don't want to read music, you don't need to read music. That will bring us back to 1) & 2) (to paraphrase Maria in The Sound of Music).

These kids didn't sing from the score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnBMAEA3AM

On the other hand, they aren't singing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8KBprMFq0s


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2891173 09/17/19 01:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
M
Manne janne Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
I do read music and practice it.
I do read but like to do my own arrangements as well.

Anyway, for solfege do you use Ti or Si? Which is best you think?

Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2891175 09/17/19 02:49 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
Originally Posted by Manne janne
I do read music and practice it.
I do read but like to do my own arrangements as well.

Anyway, for solfege do you use Ti or Si? Which is best you think?


I find your posts confusing, so I don’t know whether you are asking for assistance/advice or just starting a conversation.
On the 13th, you posted that you don’t understand how classical pianists can just read from the score because you need to learn by analyzing the music and playing by ear. And here, it seems like reading from the score may not be a problem?

If you really want to be a church organist, you need strong reading skills, and the reading needs to be independent of hearing the music first or taking the time to analyze. It is not clear if you have those. if you could clarify what is your musical goal and what question you have, it would be useful.

Last edited by dogperson; 09/17/19 02:58 AM.

"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2891180 09/17/19 03:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,204
johnstaf Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,204
Originally Posted by Manne janne
I do read music and practice it.
I do read but like to do my own arrangements as well.

Anyway, for solfege do you use Ti or Si? Which is best you think?


I was taught using Ti. BTW, for minor keys, the tonic should be La (this is very important), with very few exceptions. To me, Si is So but sharpened e.g. G# when in C Major.

There are differences in the naming of the syllables, so it's not a big deal.

Last edited by johnstaf; 09/17/19 04:01 AM.
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2892220 09/20/19 05:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
M
Manne janne Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
You have told me to be more concise and say exactly what is the purpose of creating this thread. I will take up this challenge. 


I find the post by TonyB most interesting. 

To me it seems that if you take classical lessons (whether trumpet, piano or any other instrument) the focus is on learning pieces. This is done by teaching simple theory, reading skills and technique. 

I seem to have find a pedagogy that works way better for me. It would be very helpful if you could tell me if I overthink something and if there is something important advice you can give me. 

When people learn a language they try making up words and sentences themselves. This helps them learn a language. Their first priority is not learning to read simple poetry although they often listen to (or read by themselves when they get a bit older) simple stories and tunes.

The whole thing about them making up sentences themselves seem to help them learn the language. If I apllied this to music I would besides reading and playing pieces also try make up my own music or arrangements. 

I seem to learn quicker when I try to make up my own music or arrangements. Latelely me and my teacher has been working on harmonising a major scale.

My method seems to be a bitt different from how piano is taught by a  classical teacher. 

What are your thoughts? 

Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2892240 09/20/19 07:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,880
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,880
I (we) come back to the same, the ultimate question: what is your goal?

When you said earlier that you wanted to be a church organist, you got answers which you didn't like: develop really, really, really good note-reading skills. And sight-reading.

There's nothing wrong with finding a 'pedagogy' that 'works way better' for you. The vast majority of those who have no interest in classical music do just that, assuming they use the word "pedagogy" for what they're learning. (Which they don't.)

And good composers first learn the basics of composition - harmony, counterpoint etc - really, really well. Everyone from Bach to Zimmer. Though of course, any hack can just make up anything from anything, and call it music.

The question is: Are you achieving what you want to achieve by your pedagogy method that works way better for you, to get to your ultimate goal?

Incidentally, when someone learns a new language, they don't "make up words and sentences themselves".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4u1-O7-hW8 (watch from 2:05)

They learn actual words (words that already exist) and their meanings, and construct sentences based on the syntax of that language, initially by imitation others. Without a vocabulary, there is no language.

See the difference between:

A panda walks into a bar. He eats, shoots, and leaves.
A panda walks into a bar. He eats shoots and leaves.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: bennevis] #2892243 09/20/19 07:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
NobleHouse Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by bennevis
I (we) come back to the same, the ultimate question: what is your goal?

When you said earlier that you wanted to be a church organist, you got answers which you didn't like: develop really, really, really good note-reading skills. And sight-reading.

There's nothing wrong with finding a 'pedagogy' that 'works way better' for you. The vast majority of those who have no interest in classical music do just that, assuming they use the word "pedagogy" for what they're learning. (Which they don't.)

And good composers first learn the basics of composition - harmony, counterpoint etc - really, really well. Everyone from Bach to Zimmer. Though of course, any hack can just make up anything from anything, and call it music.

The question is: Are you achieving what you want to achieve by your pedagogy method that works way better for you, to get to your ultimate goal?

Incidentally, when someone learns a new language, they don't "make up words and sentences themselves".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4u1-O7-hW8 (watch from 2:05)

They learn actual words (words that already exist) and their meanings, and construct sentences based on the syntax of that language, initially by imitation others. Without a vocabulary, there is no language.

See the difference between:

A panda walks into a bar. He eats, shoots, and leaves.
A panda walks into a bar. He eats shoots and leaves.


Amazing what punctuation can do.



[Linked Image]
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2892279 09/20/19 09:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,636
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,636
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm doubtful there are any examples of people who are illiterate in a given language yet speak that language "very well." C.

Why should this not be possible?
Btw, there are also people who learned a second language, are extremely literate in that language, can read and understand very complex things, and absolutely struggle with spoken language.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Actors speak foreign languages without learning those languages.

Not sure knowledge of English would necessarily help the recitation of Finnegan's Wake, for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-i3NRIJY0


I'm confused by this example. He is reciting an English text. His first language is English. In the manner of his recitation, he seems to understand what he is saying, and thus puts meaning into the text through the manner of his recitation.

Last edited by keystring; 09/20/19 09:07 AM.
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: bennevis] #2892293 09/20/19 09:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
M
Manne janne Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by bennevis

They learn actual words (words that already exist) and their meanings, and construct sentences based on the syntax of that language, initially by imitation others.

And I learn about stuff like G7-Cm (V7-i) by listening to my teachers. So what you just described is how I learn music.
What I do not understand is why so many people teach music by not teaching how to make up/arrange music this way. Most teachers focus on learning to play from pre-written score and do not give much focus on this other method we just described.
Both, is in my opinion, important. I would like to know why most people don't find both important.
Why is this?

My experience is that it is much easier to read music or texts that I understand. If one of my goals is being able to sight-read music for eg Mass it would be very good fod me to have an understanding of the music. We all agree with this, of course.
The thing is: I say that making up/arranging music from an early is very important even if the goal is sigh-reading.
It seems that some people here don't agree with me. I would like to know what you think about my method?

Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: keystring] #2892294 09/20/19 09:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
NobleHouse Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm doubtful there are any examples of people who are illiterate in a given language yet speak that language "very well." C.

Why should this not be possible?
Btw, there are also people who learned a second language, are extremely literate in that language, can read and understand very complex things, and absolutely struggle with spoken language.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Actors speak foreign languages without learning those languages.

Not sure knowledge of English would necessarily help the recitation of Finnegan's Wake, for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-i3NRIJY0


I'm confused by this example. He is reciting an English text. His first language is English. In the manner of his recitation, he seems to understand what he is saying, and thus puts meaning into the text through the manner of his recitation.



I also know of people that can speak a language 100% fluent but can't read or write it at all.



[Linked Image]
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2892322 09/20/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,880
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,880
Originally Posted by Manne janne
Originally Posted by bennevis

They learn actual words (words that already exist) and their meanings, and construct sentences based on the syntax of that language, initially by imitation others.

And I learn about stuff like G7-Cm (V7-i) by listening to my teachers. So what you just described is how I learn music.
What I do not understand is why so many people teach music by not teaching how to make up/arrange music this way. Most teachers focus on learning to play from pre-written score and do not give much focus on this other method we just described.

If you learn piano the traditional way (as it is taught where I am), you learn all the basics - of reading music, theory, harmony.....and eventually composition.

In other words, we don't run before we can stand. I started composing and improvising when I'd learnt the basics of harmony. Not just V7-I but harmonic progressions in general, especially as used by Bach in his chorales, i.e. harmonising a tune in the style of a Bach chorale.
Like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY-aowxVXfI

BTW, how did you get on with deciphering the harmonic progression of the simple hymn (The Lord's My Shepherd) I linked earlier? Were you able to do it?



Quote
Both, is in my opinion, important. I would like to know why most people don't find both important.
Why is this?

Why do you believe that "making up"/arranging music is important for a classical pianist?

And why do you think that if you don't do that, you don't understand music?

Quote
My experience is that it is much easier to read music or texts that I understand. If one of my goals is being able to sight-read music for eg Mass it would be very good fod me to have an understanding of the music. We all agree with this, of course.
The thing is: I say that making up/arranging music from an early is very important even if the goal is sigh-reading.
It seems that some people here don't agree with me. I would like to know what you think about my method?



Why do you think that "making up"/arranging music is essential to understanding music?
Do teachers, professors, concert pianists etc who don't do that don't understand music?

And if you like your method - and it works for you, and it gets you to where you want to get to -, why do you care about others' opinions?


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2892780 09/21/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,636
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,636
Manne janne
I've been awol with "stuff", just read through the thread, and copied your posts over to Word to get an idea of things. Thoughts:

One things that keeps cropping is "how people learn classical music/learn to play" - you have a picture of that. Snippets:
- "I can't just repeat notes I see on a piece of paper. "
- "most people just play the piece." (me: how do they do that? what is it that they do)
- "Many people can in fact take a simple piece and just learn it. They go through the fingerings and dynamics with the teacher. This is how many people learn a piece." (me: we still haven't gotten into how they "learn" it.)
- "to me it seems that if you take classical lessons (whether trumpet, piano or any other instrument) the focus is on learning pieces. This is done by teaching simple theory, reading skills and technique."

The first thing I see is a rejection of "how people" (classical) do things. Realize that different students, and different students, do things differently. The issue of "how people" is not a shallow one. The outline of "classical" learning is a hollow one until you look into this "how". You are in fact right that in some (many) corners, the emphasis is on learning pieces, going through grades - Marbeth called this product vs. project and goes deeply into it. Um - it looks like her domain expired and is gone: but there is a Facebook page that I only just discovered - it may have some insights for you if it's like what I remember (warning, it was vast).
Martha Beth piano

Back to:
Quote
- "I can't just repeat notes I see on a piece of paper. "
- "most people just play the piece." (me: how do they do that? what is it that they do)


"Repeating notes" that you see on a piece of paper is an ineffective way of learning, and there are a dozen questions about what process can happen past the empty framework of "learning" a piece.

You are actually probably mostly on track, as you try to move past the image of what you think "students studying classical music" do, and what many might, indeed, do. The good teachers to teach beyond just playing the notes, or blindly following dynamics, or choreography. If your present teacher told you the things you mentioned in your opening post, then perhaps you are already being guided in such ways.

The thing is that to play music on an instrument we need a myriad of things. For the "music" part there is basic understanding and control of things such as note values, meter, tempo, articulations, dynamics, key signatures, musical form - these are formed in the ear, in the body, and in the mind, and not necessarily with any of these always being first. For the "instrument" part there is the nature of the instrument, how to elicit sound through its mechanism combined with the mechanics of your own body, and physics. And you combine these. It can go south if there is no structure whatsoever to the lessons, no program, with everybody getting lost - or it might go fine if you have two unique individuals who can pull it off. Otoh, you have to understand the politics and business of music teaching: that many parents and other customers want to see the passing of grades, high marks in exams, bragging rights in recitals and competitions. So at this point, setting goals with your teacher may be a good thing to do. Maybe you already both know what the goals are.

The extra things you are doing to understand the music more completely seem good, from the little one can tell. Certainly teachers often wish their students would do more, and hardly dare to ask the little that they do. That said, a teacher wants you to do at least what he/she assigns, and generally in the manner that it is assigned, or else he can't do his job properly, or assess whether his methodology is working. Also if an exploration becomes a compensation for a missing skill - for example, weak reading, so let's memorize - then that is NOT a good strategy.

This is all sort of off the cuff.

Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2892846 09/21/19 08:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 32
O
opsimath Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 32
Quote
The thing is: I say that making up/arranging music from an early is very important even if the goal is sigh-reading.


Below is a passage from Jan Swofford's biography of Beethoven. It should also be noted that Beethoven also railed against performers who deviated from his scores, however!


Tomaschek recalled Beethoven saying, “It has always been known that the greatest pianoforte players were also the greatest composers; but how did they play? Not like the pianists of today, who prance up and down the keyboard with passages which they have practiced—putsch, putsch, putsch;—what does that mean? Nothing! When true pianoforte virtuosi played it was always something homogeneous, an entity; if written down it would appear as a well-thought-out work. That is pianoforte playing; the other thing is nothing.”

What Beethoven was talking about was not playing from score but rather improvisation. Czerny noted that Beethoven’s more formal improvisations sounded like a published piece, just as Beethoven here said they should.


Number of months I've been playing the piano: *****
Re: Playing by ear vs pre-written scores [Re: Manne janne] #2892920 09/22/19 04:43 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,419
I
Iaroslav Vasiliev Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,419
Manne janne, I think what you write about the benefits of analyzing the pieces that you play and improvising on them is certainly true. But when you ask why it's not typical to learn like that, I think you forget that music is usually taught to children. Teaching music to adults is not usual. And while kids have the ability to improvise and compose intuitively, they are usually not able to analyze pieces and impovise on them knowingly at least until their teens. And the conventional way of teaching is adjusted accordingly, while a kid's mind is not mature yet for analysis, kids are taught the things that their minds are very good at, like motor skills and remembering simple things.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  BB Player 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawaik500 price
by Morgrob - 02/21/20 10:30 PM
When to practice with pedal?
by baudelairepianist - 02/21/20 09:12 PM
Pure 12th aural tuning sequence
by TimM_980 - 02/21/20 08:41 PM
YUYS5 TA2 vs GC1 TA2
by SNkeys - 02/21/20 07:33 PM
Kawai piano 35 yo
by Love4Music - 02/21/20 06:37 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,111
Posts2,928,476
Members96,066
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3