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Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: Colin Miles] #2883780 08/26/19 06:12 PM
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johnstaf Offline
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles

Tip no 4, mental practice. How exactly do you do this. Is it an aural thing, or a visual one, a combination of the two or?


I go through the music in my head as though playing it. I often jump between different sections, so it's not really like a performance.

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Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: johnstaf] #2883889 08/27/19 01:39 AM
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Colin Miles Offline
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Colin Miles

Tip no 4, mental practice. How exactly do you do this. Is it an aural thing, or a visual one, a combination of the two or?


I go through the music in my head as though playing it. I often jump between different sections, so it's not really like a performance.

We are all different as to how our memories works. For some the emphasis is on the aural side, others the visual, others the muscle side of things. Presumably the latter isn't involved unless you visualise yourself playing. To what extent is this an aural thing or a visual one? Do you hear both hands, or play/see/hear different/difficult sections with one or two hands?


Last edited by Colin Miles; 08/27/19 01:39 AM. Reason: corrections

Roland LX7

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Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2890323 09/14/19 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by tedrp
In a previous post I mentioned some books that are intended to improve visual memorization of small sections of music in order to facilitate reading but I had forgotten the title. Here it is:

Speed-Reading At the Keyboard by Shanaphy and others.

As I wrote, it was of no value to me given my aphantasia (didn't know that I had it at the time) but could be useful to those with the ability to form visual images of music scores.

Thanks! I've just ordered the set of 3 books from eBay. I do have a visual memory and can remember very automatically, but didn't think I might be able to use my memory for sight-reading. Maybe these books will show me how.

I have posted a brief review of Volume 1 here.


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Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: Piano Fan 93501] #2890330 09/14/19 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Piano Fan 93501
Hi! I am a performing pianist myself and made a video with some tips on how to memorize music easily. Check it out if you like: https://youtu.be/gJrwiue3Avs
Hope this helps as well!:)


Thank you for that, PF93501. There are some good, reasonable and useful tips and strategies in your video.

Regards,


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Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2890453 09/14/19 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by tedrp
In a previous post I mentioned some books that are intended to improve visual memorization of small sections of music in order to facilitate reading but I had forgotten the title. Here it is:

Speed-Reading At the Keyboard by Shanaphy and others.

As I wrote, it was of no value to me given my aphantasia (didn't know that I had it at the time) but could be useful to those with the ability to form visual images of music scores.

Thanks! I've just ordered the set of 3 books from eBay. I do have a visual memory and can remember very automatically, but didn't think I might be able to use my memory for sight-reading. Maybe these books will show me how.

I have posted a brief review of Volume 1 here.



Nice review TS. Thanks for posting.



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Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: Colin Miles] #2890476 09/14/19 11:33 PM
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johnstaf Offline
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles

We are all different as to how our memories works. For some the emphasis is on the aural side, others the visual, others the muscle side of things. Presumably the latter isn't involved unless you visualise yourself playing. To what extent is this an aural thing or a visual one? Do you hear both hands, or play/see/hear different/difficult sections with one or two hands?



With me it's aural, visual (without the score), and procedural. I imagine myself playing. I think what goes through my head is similar to what I experience when I'm playing.

Last edited by johnstaf; 09/14/19 11:35 PM.
Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: pianoloverus] #2890829 09/16/19 03:07 AM
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Iaroslav Vasiliev Offline
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by TX-Bluebonnet
[quote=tedrp]My understanding is that many or most people can "see" an image with their eyes closed. They can look at something in their immediate presence, such as a piano, close their eyes and continue to "see" the piano in some sense.
I don't think "in some sense" is very close to seeing the piano in the same way as if they were looking at it. That would be a photographic memory which is very rare.

I agree, I think we need to use more clear terms in this case. This article about aphantasia has brought confusion by using the verb 'to see' inappropriately. No mentally healthy person can literally see an object with mind's eye, like it was layered on real-world picture like a TV channel logo, otherwise it would be called schizophrenia, not a phantasia.

The proper word would be 'to imagine'. Most people can imagine physical objects in their minds. I guess some people can imagine objects with more detail and some with less detail, some can imagine more objects at once than others, but anyway it's not comparable in vividness and detailness to the real vision.

I also think that the term 'aphantasia' is not good, because a-... means the absence of something. And the absence of imagination of physical objects seems to me unlikely to exist in otherwise mentally healthy person. If a person can sight-read a very simple tune not looking at the keys it already means this person can imagine physical objects (piano keyboard). The image may probably lack color, opaqueness or detail but it must exist in order for this task to be accomplished, isn't it?

Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: earlofmar] #2890834 09/16/19 03:34 AM
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Nahum Offline
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Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev

I also think that the term 'aphantasia' is not good, because a-... means the absence of something. And the absence of imagination of physical objects seems to me unlikely to exist in otherwise mentally healthy person. If a person can sight-read a very simple tune not looking at the keys it already means this person can imagine physical objects (piano keyboard). The image may probably lack color, opaqueness or detail but it must exist in order for this task to be accomplished, isn't it?
Iaroslav Vasiliev] , You are clearly unfamiliar with the topic which began to be investigated only 2 years ago. . Take a look here:

Aphantasia (Non-Imager / Mental Blindness) Awareness Group ( closed group)

https://www.psytoolkit.org/cgi-bin/...o6DR8jH3XkPLq1xWTpw5iTCQOHYmWF5rKBEVZyWs

Last edited by Nahum; 09/16/19 03:37 AM.
Re: Score reading v memorisation v visualisation [Re: earlofmar] #2890927 09/16/19 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by earlofmar
there has been quite a bit of discussion on these forums of late on score reading and memorisation, but nothing on visualisation as a tool. Today, I tried to play a piece from memory at my lesson that I have been score reading for a considerable time. It was a disaster, and it highlighted that I probably memorise just on a superficial level. On discussing this my teacher she suggested I commit the score to memory. Not the way I used to memorise, which was by repetition, but a complete visualisation of the score, complete with fingering. Visualising the music both as notation, and as notes on the keyboard.

She said it would be difficult but worthwhile, so I am going to try it out on the piece that is giving me problems as an experiment, (and because I trust my teacher).

While I daresay I could continue to score read such pieces, this one in particular is for an exam. I would like it to be impervious to stress and nerves, as much as possible.

Any thoughts, anyone use this method?

If you have that kind of memory use it.
I memorize by analysing the music. I personally can't see things clear in my head if I try to recall them. If you can see things like if they were in front of your eyes just by recalling then try that method.
I can think of a piano keyboard and use it when thinking about music away from a keybaord but it is not like a clear image. It is more like I know the theory of how the keyboard lools like.

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