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Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: dogperson] #2889330
09/11/19 04:05 PM
09/11/19 04:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 6
Worcestershire, UK
Terrytini Offline OP
Junior Member
Terrytini  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 6
Worcestershire, UK
Originally Posted by dogperson
Terry tini
Any updates for us? 😊


Hi - for those interested I bought it today !

So, to recap it’s a Steinberg P152 and it was £8400, with a £300 leather adjustable
piano stool and a couple of tunings added in.

Must admit it was a great feeling ! Looking forward to 27th September when I can Post
a picture or two of it in situ.

Great chat with the stores “ mechanic” who services pianos all over ( he’s just off to Turkey for a single job !) and he was very positive it was a good buy - not sales talk as I opened by saying I was still
debating a couple of others which cost a fair bit more.

Thanks again folks will be in touch soon !

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
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Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2889336
09/11/19 04:08 PM
09/11/19 04:08 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,086
H
Hakki Offline
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Hakki  Offline
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H

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,086
Congratulations on your new piano!

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2889390
09/11/19 05:42 PM
09/11/19 05:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,396
🎹
Retsacnal Online content

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Retsacnal  Online Content

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Congratulations! I hope it brings you much happiness.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2889400
09/11/19 06:13 PM
09/11/19 06:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,396
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Retsacnal Online content

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Retsacnal  Online Content

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As I posted above, I don't want to dampen the OP's enthusiasm, but I feel like I've been beaten up on some by others for simply trying to give objective advice.

I'm going to re-address the contrarian viewpoint, because the OP is not the only one reading this (so far nearly 2000 reads, and they will continue over time). He didn't just ask if he should buy this piano that he loves. He asked a broader, overarching question, and I don't think the persisting answer to that should be "buy any piano that you 'love'," just because we don't want to be "mean" at PW.

In the large, I'm glad that the athmosphere here isn't as abrasive as it has been at times. For example, some of the answers to my very own first post here were that the piano I was looking at was overpriced by the full amount of the asking price, that a rebuild of it should start by discarding it, and that, yes, it was just furniture and that if I simply wanted a piano shaped object I could get one for less money. That was a little difficult to hear at the time--Mrs. Retsacnal and I were admittedly smitten with the piano--but the fact of the matter was that it was true, and the advice to avoid the piano was good advice. I'm glad that I didn't hear resounding choruses of "buy it if you love it."

I have at times championed the "let's not be so rude to newbies" cause here. But I also don't think we should avoid giving good advice simply to not be seen as mean or rude.

The OP asked a broad question: Is 5ft really just furniture? The answer to that question is not a clearcut "not any more." For most pianos in existence, a small piano is just a shortened bigger one, and that "design" doesn't work well. For some of the newer models that benefit from newer scale designs they are better, but they still have limitations as compared to larger pianos.

Anyway, I'm glad that the OP is happy with his decision, but most people who conduct a thorough, ongoing, no holds barred assessment such as he described will not conclude that the smallest and cheapest piano is the one that they like best. The OP has indicated that in actuality he has both space and price constraints, and if this is the best compromise given his constraints, then more power to him. I hope it serves him well. But it's not mean or rude to be honest about the nature of small pianos.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2889410
09/12/19 09:49 AM
09/12/19 09:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 724
Indianapolis
G
GC13 Offline
500 Post Club Member
GC13  Offline
500 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 724
Indianapolis
Congrats on the new piano. That's exciting. Post pictures when you can!

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2889412
09/12/19 09:50 AM
09/12/19 09:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,843
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
2000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,843
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Congratulations and enjoy your new piano! Have fun on your journey!


[Linked Image]
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Retsacnal] #2889443
09/12/19 10:54 AM
09/12/19 10:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,454
Southwest
j&j Offline
1000 Post Club Member
j&j  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,454
Southwest
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
As I posted above, I don't want to dampen the OP's enthusiasm, but I feel like I've been beaten up on some by others for simply trying to give objective advice.

I'm going to re-address the contrarian viewpoint, because the OP is not the only one reading this (so far nearly 2000 reads, and they will continue over time). He didn't just ask if he should buy this piano that he loves. He asked a broader, overarching question, and I don't think the persisting answer to that should be "buy any piano that you 'love'," just because we don't want to be "mean" at PW.

In the large, I'm glad that the athmosphere here isn't as abrasive as it has been at times. For example, some of the answers to my very own first post here were that the piano I was looking at was overpriced by the full amount of the asking price, that a rebuild of it should start by discarding it, and that, yes, it was just furniture and that if I simply wanted a piano shaped object I could get one for less money. That was a little difficult to hear at the time--Mrs. Retsacnal and I were admittedly smitten with the piano--but the fact of the matter was that it was true, and the advice to avoid the piano was good advice. I'm glad that I didn't hear resounding choruses of "buy it if you love it."

I have at times championed the "let's not be so rude to newbies" cause here. But I also don't think we should avoid giving good advice simply to not be seen as mean or rude.

The OP asked a broad question: Is 5ft really just furniture? The answer to that question is not a clearcut "not any more." For most pianos in existence, a small piano is just a shortened bigger one, and that "design" doesn't work well. For some of the newer models that benefit from newer scale designs they are better, but they still have limitations as compared to larger pianos.

Anyway, I'm glad that the OP is happy with his decision, but most people who conduct a thorough, ongoing, no holds barred assessment such as he described will not conclude that the smallest and cheapest piano is the one that they like best. The OP has indicated that in actuality he has both space and price constraints, and if this is the best compromise given his constraints, then more power to him. I hope it serves him well. But it's not mean or rude to be honest about the nature of small pianos.

As usual 😁, you are quite correct. As long as the OP is well aware of “short piano shortcomings” (sorry couldn’t resist) but chooses to buy the piano anyway, we’ll give the OP sincere congratulations on buying a new piano. I hope he’s thrilled when it’s delivered and we get to see the pictures. Maybe in a few years he’ll be ready to upgrade or maybe not. I do wish him many happy hours playing his new piano.


J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
[Linked Image]
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Retsacnal] #2889447
09/12/19 11:04 AM
09/12/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,301
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
Gold Subscriber
Stubbie  Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,301
Midwest USA
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
As I posted above, I don't want to dampen the OP's enthusiasm, but I feel like I've been beaten up on some by others for simply trying to give objective advice.

I'm going to re-address the contrarian viewpoint, because the OP is not the only one reading this (so far nearly 2000 reads, and they will continue over time). He didn't just ask if he should buy this piano that he loves. He asked a broader, overarching question, and I don't think the persisting answer to that should be "buy any piano that you 'love'," just because we don't want to be "mean" at PW.....

Anyway, I'm glad that the OP is happy with his decision, but most people who conduct a thorough, ongoing, no holds barred assessment such as he described will not conclude that the smallest and cheapest piano is the one that they like best. The OP has indicated that in actuality he has both space and price constraints, and if this is the best compromise given his constraints, then more power to him. I hope it serves him well. But it's not mean or rude to be honest about the nature of small pianos.
+1. There ARE good reasons, based on scientific principles, not to buy a 5 ft. piano, especially an older one. There is nothing wrong with pointing this out, and much right in doing so. The OP--and others with similar needs to his--should be making the decision with all the angles, good and bad, pointed out. Nothing mean in doing that.


[Linked Image]
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2889651
09/12/19 08:19 PM
09/12/19 08:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,427
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Online content
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,427
North Vancouver
I do not know what to say to Retsacnal's sincere yet focused comment. The Kawai grand I had was about 5'8". It was what I still base all grands on except for the large Steinway I played on occasionally at university for twice yearly exams.(I also played another of these on a few other occasions )My Kawai came no where near in tone or response. There have also been a few Yamahas and a C Bechstein which was wonderful.I have also played Boston,Schultz and Polman all larger than the OP's piano.
Recently I tried a Kawai GX,and the GL10.
That GL10 is only 5ft in size.It had a mellow tone (not so the GL5'2")but a small sound.BUT very well
balanced! (as long as you do not want to play some later Beethoven or Rachmaninoff pieces etc)
The "action" was totally crisp ,responsive and sensitive.The last two (mentioned)Gl series pianos were not as powerful in the bass or treble as a European 130 but I thought they were better tonally
than many 130 sized uprights.(other than European ones and a few others)
For the right person the instrument would do very well.So yes a 5ft grand makes perfect sense as well !
Congratulations on your lovely grand !

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Retsacnal] #2889754
09/13/19 02:18 AM
09/13/19 02:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,003
Germany
patH Online content

1000 Post Club Member
patH  Online Content

1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,003
Germany
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
As I posted above, I don't want to dampen the OP's enthusiasm, but I feel like I've been beaten up on some by others for simply trying to give objective advice. .
The thing is: It wasn't objective advice. It was subjective advice. Nothing wrong with it, but I believe that people should not post their opinions as facts.

In this case, you mentioned that a small piano does not defy the laws of physics. That is correct, but applies to any physical entity on Earth. You then went on to talk about the "limitations" of small pianos. And that, in my opinion, is a subjective opinion. They are only limitations if you care about them.

So what if a bass sounds less powerful than what a big piano can produce? If the OP places little importance on the bass then it's not a limitation. Or to use another example: If someone is looking for a car to commute to work and occasionally travel, but only in areas where there are speed limitations, then the fact that the car can not drive at 200 mph or 300 km/h is not a limitation.

We could say that a big piano also has "limitations". It takes away more space, it is more expensive, it's harder to move, it might annoy the neighbors more... In the end, you decide what's important in a piano. And the OP apparently made the appropriate decision for them.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: patH] #2890121
09/14/19 12:05 AM
09/14/19 12:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,396
🎹
Retsacnal Online content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015

4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,396
🎹
Originally Posted by patH
You then went on to talk about the "limitations" of small pianos. And that, in my opinion, is a subjective opinion. They are only limitations if you care about them.

The OP clearly cared about the issue of length. He predicated the whole thread on that question.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Retsacnal] #2890193
09/14/19 08:11 AM
09/14/19 08:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,843
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
2000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,843
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by patH
You then went on to talk about the "limitations" of small pianos. And that, in my opinion, is a subjective opinion. They are only limitations if you care about them.

The OP clearly cared about the issue of length. He predicated the whole thread on that question.



Exactly! The OP titled his thread: Re: Is 5ft really just furniture? That sure sounds like asking for opinions...


[Linked Image]
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: NobleHouse] #2890221
09/14/19 09:35 AM
09/14/19 09:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,167
Dublin
johnstaf Offline
2000 Post Club Member
johnstaf  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,167
Dublin
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by Retsacnal

The OP clearly cared about the issue of length. He predicated the whole thread on that question.



Exactly! The OP titled his thread: Re: Is 5ft really just furniture? That sure sounds like asking for opinions...


Indeed.

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: NobleHouse] #2890227
09/14/19 09:52 AM
09/14/19 09:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,003
Germany
patH Online content

1000 Post Club Member
patH  Online Content

1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,003
Germany
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by patH
You then went on to talk about the "limitations" of small pianos. And that, in my opinion, is a subjective opinion. They are only limitations if you care about them.

The OP clearly cared about the issue of length. He predicated the whole thread on that question.



Exactly! The OP titled his thread: Re: Is 5ft really just furniture? That sure sounds like asking for opinions...
True. I never said otherwise. I am just wary of people presenting their opinion as "objective".
"Objectivity is the illusion that observations can be made without an observer." (author unknown)


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2890239
09/14/19 10:45 AM
09/14/19 10:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,427
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Online content
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,427
North Vancouver
Yes but then unless we are all scientists where our main focus of study is" the social aspects of the piano" or "piano shaped furniture ",we cannot not help anyone !
When I was talking about pianos I had no scientific instruments to objectively measure with, I could
only relate what I had experienced as a person who has spent her life around pianos.(no not every single moment of my life ?)
I mean perhaps a robot or a computerized programm may give greater objectivity but I do not think
it will be popular ?

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/14/19 10:52 AM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: patH] #2890253
09/14/19 11:12 AM
09/14/19 11:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,427
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Online content
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,427
North Vancouver
Originally Posted by patH
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by patH
You then went on to talk about the "limitations" of small pianos. And that, in my opinion, is a subjective opinion. They are only limitations if you care about them.

The OP clearly cared about the issue of length. He predicated the whole thread on that question.



Exactly! The OP titled his thread: Re: Is 5ft really just furniture? That sure sounds like asking for opinions...
True. I never said otherwise. I am just wary of people presenting their opinion as "objective".
"Objectivity is the illusion that observations can be made without an observer." (author unknown)

I know what you are saying but none of us on this thread could be perfectly objective !

Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Lady Bird] #2890599
09/15/19 09:40 AM
09/15/19 09:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,003
Germany
patH Online content

1000 Post Club Member
patH  Online Content

1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,003
Germany
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I know what you are saying but none of us on this thread could be perfectly objective !
Which was exactly my point! smile


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2891420
09/17/19 04:53 PM
09/17/19 04:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
M
Makaroff Offline
Junior Member
Makaroff  Offline
Junior Member
M

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
To the OP: There are certainly excellent pianos in the 5' range. Some of them will actually trump a 5'8" both in bass and treble - having said that, you might be better off just saving your pennies and investing into a larger instrument.

On another note, Steinberg is a stencil piano. The company was owned by one Frederik Steffes who aquired the company when Germany was unified. He marketed it with the same dishonest smok'n mirrors approach that still pervades parts of the piano industry today. It was one of the first companies to sell to a Chinese interest. Parson, a Chinese piano maker, bought them. No pianos today are built in Germany anymore - as far as I know.


Baldwin R (1962) - "Too many notes, dear Mozart" - "Exactly as many as necessary, your Majesty."
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2891426
09/17/19 05:12 PM
09/17/19 05:12 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,961
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Is 5ft really just furniture ? [Re: Terrytini] #2891447
09/17/19 06:16 PM
09/17/19 06:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 70
VladK Offline
Full Member
VladK  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 70
If I ever buy a new acoustic grand (no way I can do this for at least the next few years) it would not be piano from Chinese company, even if it is built in Europe and has a tasty label. No bias against Chinese people - but I am very cautious about everything Chinese business has stake in. Corner cutting in in their genome.
And considering that there are offerings from two Japanese, few American, and many European companies - I do not see how this would limit my options.

Last edited by VladK; 09/17/19 06:16 PM.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner.
Yamaha P-515, P-80, HS8, Sennheiser HD 650
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