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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Dr. Rogers #2889970 09/13/19 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers


Would you be willing to share your thoughts on the ending of Ana Karenina? I found the ending to be such a let-down, as if I had wasted my time reading the whole book. It seemed as if all the important characters were either dead, insane (I refer to Levin retreating into delusions), or unchanged (a la Oblonsky).

I felt the same way about Wuthering Heights; I just kept waiting for it to get good, but it never happened.


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
NobleHouse #2889973 09/13/19 01:08 PM
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I also want a thread on Chekhov’s plays and short stories, LOL.

Last edited by LarryK; 09/13/19 01:16 PM.

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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Dr. Rogers #2889981 09/13/19 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
Originally Posted by dumka1
Yes, I am a Russian lit professor (and a huge Tolstoy fan). Would be happy to participate in such a thread.


Would you be willing to share your thoughts on the ending of Ana Karenina? I found the ending to be such a let-down, as if I had wasted my time reading the whole book. It seemed as if all the important characters were either dead, insane (I refer to Levin retreating into delusions), or unchanged (a la Oblonsky).

Personally I thought there was a great parallel between the endings of W&P (2nd part of epilogue) and Anna Karenina (last section) in terms of structure. Both ended with philosophical treatises - ideas. Only in Anna Karenina, it was thinly disguised as part of the plot, while in W&P, he just dropped an essay into the novel. Probably he had learned in the intervening decade between the novels that if he wanted people to read his ideas, he'd better disguise it with some plot! smirk

Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
Similarly, I felt rather cheated by the ending of Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov. It felt mostly unfinished, with the main plot unresolved.

That's because, sadly, Dostoevsky died before he could finish off the entire tale.

Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
I was unable to finish Crime and Punishment. The atmosphere was horribly claustrophobic. And I suppose my sense of morality is quite different from Dostoevsky. I felt the victim "needed killin'' as we say here in Texas, and thus the protagonist did society a favor!

Can't agree. C&P was brilliant. And so very Russian!


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
NobleHouse #2889983 09/13/19 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Did anyone else have issues getting to the forums yesterday? I couldn't get on all evening.


Yes! I thought the forum had shut down. Glad that isn’t the case!


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Dr. Rogers #2889986 09/13/19 01:30 PM
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Edit timer expired:

Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
Maybe I'm just too far removed from the cultural context in which these works were written.

Maybe. There is a strong Russian cultural and philosophical context for many of these authors.

Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
I enjoyed Solzhenitsyn so much more: One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, Cancer Ward, The First Circle... I found these books to be great, powerful literature.

On this, I agree with my wife. Solzhenitsyn was a pompous @ss. LOL


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
JJHLH #2889995 09/13/19 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Did anyone else have issues getting to the forums yesterday? I couldn't get on all evening.


Yes! I thought the forum had shut down. Glad that isn’t the case!


The forum was shut down so that it could be renamed Russian Literature World.

Time to practice.


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
LarryK #2889997 09/13/19 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
The forum was shut down so that it could be renamed Russian Literature World.

cmb13 took action to move at least some of it to over here.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
LarryK #2890001 09/13/19 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Did anyone else have issues getting to the forums yesterday? I couldn't get on all evening.


Yes! I thought the forum had shut down. Glad that isn’t the case!


The forum was shut down so that it could be renamed Russian Literature World.

Time to practice.

OMG you almost goaded me into a policial comment but I caught myself this time. Nobody else should either. Not here anyway. Just will say this is the year of the Russian Arts. Working on Tchaikovsky also!


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Tyrone Slothrop #2890012 09/13/19 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That's because, sadly, Dostoevsky died before he could finish off the entire tale.


Aww, that's most unfortunate.

Quote
Can't agree. C&P was brilliant. And so very Russian!


I can't comment on the overall brilliance, since I only got about a third of the way through it. But he seems to have successfully painted the atmosphere of 19th century St. Petersburg, at least how one particular social class would have experienced it. The oppressive atmosphere got to be too much for me, so I put it down.

Quote
On this, I agree with my wife. Solzhenitsyn was a pompous @ss. LOL


I was a huge Solzhenitsyn fan until Two Hundred Years Together. I haven't touched Solzhenitsyn since. I probably wouldn't enjoy his work now, since my religious views are very different now versus in the 1990s when I devoured every Solzhenitsyn book I could get my hands on. The religion issue is probably why I can't stomach Tolstoy.


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
cmb13 #2890064 09/13/19 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Did anyone else have issues getting to the forums yesterday? I couldn't get on all evening.


Yes! I thought the forum had shut down. Glad that isn’t the case!


The forum was shut down so that it could be renamed Russian Literature World.

Time to practice.

OMG you almost goaded me into a policial comment but I caught myself this time. Nobody else should either. Not here anyway. Just will say this is the year of the Russian Arts. Working on Tchaikovsky also!


I was making a joke. I had no intention of goading anyone into making a political comment.

I practiced, it was hard, I’d rather discuss literature, lol.

If I recall correctly, Chekhov undertook a difficult journey to Siberia, one in which he was either pushing the wagon, digging it out of the snow, or collapsing from exhaustion. He wrote that he never felt better in his life. Before the trip, he said he thought listening to the Kreutzer Sonata was a big deal, after, that it was not much of anything, lol. He described how some people seemed to diminish their symptoms of tuberculosis by riding horses nonstop, they called it the “galloping cure.”

Last edited by LarryK; 09/13/19 06:09 PM.

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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
NobleHouse #2890066 09/13/19 06:19 PM
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I know. My reply was a joke also. smile


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Dr. Rogers #2890080 09/13/19 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers

I was a huge Solzhenitsyn fan until Two Hundred Years Together. I haven't touched Solzhenitsyn since. I probably wouldn't enjoy his work now, since my religious views are very different now versus in the 1990s when I devoured every Solzhenitsyn book I could get my hands on. The religion issue is probably why I can't stomach Tolstoy.


Actually, I think you’ve hit on why I can’t read Tolstoy. But, speak of the devil and the devil appears. I’m reading a forward to a collection of Chekhov stories and the author of the forward, Boris Fishman, remarks that Tolstoy came from the clouds while Chekhov was of the earth, and follows it with Chekhov’s criticism of Tolstoy:

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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
LarryK #2890087 09/13/19 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
I’m reading a forward to a collection of Chekhov stories and the author of the forward, Boris Fishman, remarks that Tolstoy came from the clouds while Chekhov was of the earth, and follows it with Chekhov’s criticism of Tolstoy
Originally Posted by LarryK
Can we also have a thread on the stories of Isaac Babel?

A quote used in Richard Pevear's Intro to W&P:
Originally Posted by Isaac Babel
If the world could write by itself, it would write like Tolstoy.


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Tyrone Slothrop #2890093 09/13/19 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
I’m reading a forward to a collection of Chekhov stories and the author of the forward, Boris Fishman, remarks that Tolstoy came from the clouds while Chekhov was of the earth, and follows it with Chekhov’s criticism of Tolstoy
Originally Posted by LarryK
Can we also have a thread on the stories of Isaac Babel?

A quote used in Richard Pevear's Intro to W&P:
Originally Posted by Isaac Babel
If the world could write by itself, it would write like Tolstoy.


I don’t remember when I fell out from Tolstoy but it might have been after reading The Death of Ivan Ilyich. I think religion is the reason but I’m not getting into that here.

Tolstoy and Chekhov were frenemies. Tolstoy visited Chekhov when Chekhov was on his deathbed. Chekhov said it was an interesting conversation because he mainly listened, lol.

I appreciate the simplicity of Chekhov and the way he doesn’t try to moralize, he just writes about what happened.


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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
LarryK #2890097 09/13/19 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
I don’t remember when I fell out from Tolstoy but it might have been after reading The Death of Ivan Ilyich. I think religion is the reason but I’m not getting into that here.

Maybe it was overly moralising for you? Too didactic a story, perhaps?


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Tyrone Slothrop #2890099 09/13/19 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
I don’t remember when I fell out from Tolstoy but it might have been after reading The Death of Ivan Ilyich. I think religion is the reason but I’m not getting into that here.

Maybe it was overly moralising for you? Too didactic a story, perhaps?


I guess that's it. I'm allergic to that kind of thing. smile

Last edited by LarryK; 09/13/19 09:05 PM.

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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
LarryK #2890102 09/13/19 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
I don’t remember when I fell out from Tolstoy but it might have been after reading The Death of Ivan Ilyich. I think religion is the reason but I’m not getting into that here.

Maybe it was overly moralising for you? Too didactic a story, perhaps?


I guess that's it. I'm allergic to that kind of thing. smile

But most of Tolstoy's oeuvre was not written when he practically was on his deathbed! You shouldn't think his earlier works read like The Death of Ivan Ilyich.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
Tyrone Slothrop #2890107 09/13/19 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
I don’t remember when I fell out from Tolstoy but it might have been after reading The Death of Ivan Ilyich. I think religion is the reason but I’m not getting into that here.

Maybe it was overly moralising for you? Too didactic a story, perhaps?


I guess that's it. I'm allergic to that kind of thing. smile

But most of Tolstoy's oeuvre was not written when he practically was on his deathbed! You shouldn't think his earlier works read like The Death of Ivan Ilyich.


But wait, he died in 1910, Ilyich was published in 1886, so Tolstoy wasn’t on his deathbed when he wrote it. His religious conversion happened in 1884. That’s the event that makes him insufferable as a writer, in my opinion. War and Peace was published in 1869, so perhaps I would like it. Still, Chekhov wrote about a thousand stories and I feel I should read them first.

I’m a big fan of Raymond Carver’s stories and Carver loved Chekhov, and so, it makes sense for me to read them. There is a pretty good film entitled “Everything Must Go” loosely based on a Carver story.

Last edited by LarryK; 09/13/19 10:23 PM.

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Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
LarryK #2890109 09/13/19 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Maybe it was overly moralising for you? Too didactic a story, perhaps?


I guess that's it. I'm allergic to that kind of thing. smile

But most of Tolstoy's oeuvre was not written when he practically was on his deathbed! You shouldn't think his earlier works read like The Death of Ivan Ilyich.


But wait, he died in 1910, Ilyich was published in 1886, so Tolstoy wasn’t on his deathbed when he wrote it. His religious conversion happened in 1884. That’s the event that makes him insufferable as a writer, in my opinion. War and Peace was published in 1869, so perhaps I would like it. Still, Chekhov wrote about a thousand stories and I feel I should read them first.

Hmmm... But The Death of Ivan Ilyich was written in his later period.... I didn't realise his later period was so long. (The works in that period are all insufferable. LOL.)


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Issues Yesterday Getting to Forums
NobleHouse #2890110 09/13/19 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Hmmm... But The Death of Ivan Ilyich was written in his later period.... I didn't realise his later period was so long. (The works in that period are all insufferable. LOL.)


It’s my observation that those who claim to have all the answers are usually insufferable. I know I will leave without having any answers.


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