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How do "YOU" set the strings.... #2889687
09/12/19 09:53 PM
09/12/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 195
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Online content OP
Full Member
Duaner  Online Content OP
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 195
Minto, NB Canada
We all want our tuning to stay for an extended period of time and of course we work at "setting" the strings to do this. What do you do to keep the strings you have just tuned so they hold the setting you have given them. What is your method of doing this?


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
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Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2889702
09/12/19 10:33 PM
09/12/19 10:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,668
Oakland
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BDB Offline
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It is a matter of developing the proper touch or feel.


Semipro Tech
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2889799
09/13/19 06:39 AM
09/13/19 06:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,644
Canberra, ACT, Australia
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Chris Leslie Offline
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I manipulate the lever to a point of equilibrium with the string vibrating but cannot describe how. It is a feel thing. Kind of like a snaking wiggle inwards until it feels stable. If you end up by pushing the string out with only a slight pressure in either direction then you know it is not set with stability.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2889825
09/13/19 08:09 AM
09/13/19 08:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,542
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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P W Grey  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,542
New Hampshire
I used to visualize the old analog signal strength meter on the stereo amplifier, the one with the little needle that went back and forth. You had to listen to the signal, watch the meter, go back and forth with the dial getting down to a smaller and smaller span till you found the "sweet spot" (which wasnt always right in the middle). You kind of do the same thing with the pin/string assembly.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2889925
09/13/19 11:21 AM
09/13/19 11:21 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,902
Tennessee
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Ed Foote Offline
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Joined: May 2003
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Tennessee
Greetings.

I practiced this approach on pitch raises, and found that eventually, a single downward motion can be refined, like a golfer refining his swing. speed and consistency improved. On pitch raises, no string gets moved more than once, as the average is more important than any individual string's exact pitch, and time is money.

I push the pin to lower the tension from a pitch slightly higher than I am aiming for, perhaps 4-8 cents higher to start. As I do this, I listen to the pitch fall and depending on the torque and flex of the pin, I aim for a spot that will be on pitch while I have the hammer moving the pin. Releasing the hammer allows the pin to "unwind" and flex backwards in whatever amount the pin was loaded with as I pushed it flat. If I get it right, the final pitch can be raised by a slight upwards lift on the hammer while on the pin, but will not move flat without flexing the pin to the max before it begins moving in the block.

The keeping the pin in motion to its final position gets me over a lot of jumpy pins, as I will start from far away and be moving the whole time. They are still a hassle, but not as much as jerking back and forth while hoping it will land somewhere I trust. It also makes unisons easier to tune, since I listen as the pitch of the second string falls closer to pure, and then finally, I can hear that purity evaporate as the pitch goes just slightly under it. this is on the order of .3 cents, at most. If I have flexed the pin perfectly, when I hear the "evaporation", I can release the hammer and hear the pitch come up that small amount.

Neither of these techniques use "test" blows to move the string around. A FFF is always given before moving on, but I will quote Jack Sprinkle, who, in 1978, gave the old school dictum, "A note that can be banged into tune can be banged out of tune". Bill Garlick would carefully listen and manipulate his hammer, then when at the proper place, give it a pretty solid whack. I follow that. Many of the pianos I tune this way I tuned 3-5 times a week, (stages), and 2-3 times a week (studios). I never saw evidence that the blocks suffered for the slight, intentional, flag-poling, that I employ as a way of maneuvering tension around friction.
Regards,

Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2889980
09/13/19 01:17 PM
09/13/19 01:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,339
Old Hangtown California
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Gene Nelson Online content
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Old Hangtown California
I pay attention to the distinctive tic that I feel when the pin moves in the block.
Sometimes - tic, tic, tic with no change in pitch then tic and big change in pitch requiring compensation.
Other times - tic and pitch changes slightly every time.
Then there are some where I can’t feel the tic.
Others where one tic gets a big pitch change.
So many different scenarios and all must be analyzed and dealt with.
If I can’t feel the tic it’s much more difficult to do a stable tuning.
After I’m comfortable with pitch and pin position I give slight hammer pressure to the flat side combined with one or more test blows.
Before I tune I like to check pitch and listen.
Then hold sustain pedal and do the forearm smash and let all 88 notes sustain.
This gets everything moving and can unseat some friction issues that don’t happen with test blows.
Then I recheck pitch and listen again.
This tells me much about what I’m up against.
After tuning I do the same forearm smash. This tells me if I didn’t set any pins correctly.
I like to keep track of temperatures and relative humidity.
Changing conditions can affect the tuning while I’m tuning. Ever finish a tuning only to discover it drifted slightly sharp?
Even on a relatively stable performance piano that is kept in tune I usually do two passes to be certain the tuning will not move during performance.


RPT
PTG Member
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2890009
09/13/19 02:26 PM
09/13/19 02:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,542
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,542
New Hampshire
My overall MO is 95% in line with what Ed F. wrote. A variation on the "test blow" is to use more of the hand to hit 3-5 notes at once. The idea here is that less force is needed as it is spread out over several notes...gets the bridge moving better than concentrating on just the one note. Easier on the hand, easier on the ears.

"Grief shared is grief halved".

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2890096
09/13/19 08:57 PM
09/13/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,644
Canberra, ACT, Australia
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Chris Leslie Offline
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Chris Leslie  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Canberra, ACT, Australia
Just another comment on what I do: I try not to bring the pitch too far under or over. If bringing up I try to go straight from where it is to where it should be without first dropping, and without going wildly over.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2890101
09/13/19 09:19 PM
09/13/19 09:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,272
Seattle, WA USA
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,272
Seattle, WA USA
To add to the above descriptions: The first thing you need to know when you go to tune a string is whether it is presently in a stable state. If it is not, you will have more of a guessing game to determine how far to turn the pin in the block before you try to "settle" the string in tune.

When you go to turn a pin there are two types of flexing actions; flexing across the pin and torsional flexing. You must keep track of how much of both types of pin flexing is occurring and make sure as you get the string tuned that the flexing is removed.

I believe there is some very slight permanent torsional bending that tuners do when setting the string and this is stable. If you try to permanently bend the pin to curve it along its length, you will damage the pinblock and stable setting will not be as easy to achieve because the deformed block will creep back slower than the pin flex rate and change the pitch.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2890198
09/14/19 08:16 AM
09/14/19 08:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,566
KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,566
KZ, Uralsk
Originally Posted by Duaner
We all want our tuning to stay for an extended period of time and of course we work at "setting" the strings to do this. What do you do to keep the strings you have just tuned so they hold the setting you have given them. What is your method of doing this?

I'm very slowly driving up a handle to 12 o'clock always. Let my tuning reach a long time but I have believes that keeping of a stability of a pitch is good credo for it's.

Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2890454
09/14/19 10:18 PM
09/14/19 10:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 195
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Online content OP
Full Member
Duaner  Online Content OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 195
Minto, NB Canada
Hi Max. I wish I had a translator because I'm sure you have some interesting and helpful points of view but as it is I can't get a word of English from your video instruction. Sometimes there's a translation tab but I see none on this. Take care, Duane.


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: How do "YOU" set the strings.... [Re: Duaner] #2890470
09/15/19 12:01 AM
09/15/19 12:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,566
KZ, Uralsk
Maximillyan Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Maximillyan  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,566
KZ, Uralsk
Originally Posted by Duaner
Hi Max. I wish I had a translator because I'm sure you have some interesting and helpful points of view but as it is I can't get a word of English from your video instruction. Sometimes there's a translation tab but I see none on this. Take care, Duane.


thank, Duane
here a professional girl translator from English tried to explain AS it's work, only the sound is quiet. I explain for use a T-bar wrench , however for a traditional L tuning hammer, this works as well. My method is that ALL manipulations (routes) of a hammer handle are required to be only on the left side of the dial from to up (9 hour to 12) only. Ideal need do it's very near to 12
why? Thus, when the handle of tuning hammer moves in this direction up, we completely turn off the string pressure (-) for a pin. A pin drive has in axis movement only in the hole and in a bush. We preserve the resource wooden part of the pin block and this operation gives reason to believe that a pitch will be more long-term, I believe.
Max,


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