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Re: Standards of ornaments - where to look up [Re: Sidokar] #2888559
09/09/19 10:39 AM
09/09/19 10:39 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,943
SE USA
WhoDwaldi Offline
2000 Post Club Member
WhoDwaldi  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,943
SE USA
Originally Posted by Sidokar

As said, there is no reason to remove the ornaments when played at the piano. These are integral part of the french baroque music and it is not the same result when they are removed (unlike some other compositions); the piano touch has simply to be adjusted accordingly. Also the translation in english of the word ornaments is somehow misleading; it sends the message that it is something optional; the actual word in french is "agréments" which in the meaning of the XVIIth century means what brings charm and grace to the music; if you refer to the way of thinking of the time, it was considered an essential part of the music esthetic.

Here is a piano version of the "les sauvages" which is different and slower than Sokolov but just as satisfactory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95G1r9sLrq0 (a bit too closed miked)

And a version of Gavotte and 6 double (suite in A): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuJ-LKEH6W0



Grace and charm are not my strong suits as a player. ha I like the more relaxed and less wild tempo for "Les Sauvages." And Kudritskaya certainly has wonderful tone and lyricism.

Harpsichords do have the "under the player's ear" issue of sounding much different at distance. That's sort of like Heifetz' infamous "scratchy" recordings, with close mics, that didn't do justice to the sound he had out in the hall.


WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
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Re: Standards of ornaments - where to look up [Re: Barly] #2890075
09/13/19 07:09 PM
09/13/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 70
VladK Offline
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VladK  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 70
Back to the topic - ornamentation is also discussed in Davidson’s The Classical Piano Sonata: From Haydn to Prokofiev.


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner.
Yamaha P-515, P-80, HS8, Sennheiser HD 650
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