2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
36 members (clothearednincompo, CharlesXX, ChrisGoesPiano, CyberGene, Beowulf, Alan B, Animisha, 9 invisible), 381 guests, and 297 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: And So It Begins
Retsacnal #2889509 09/12/19 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by iLaw
It is possible to discuss the impact of economic policies on the piano business without the discussion turning partisan.

I agree.


Me too.



[Linked Image]
(ad int) Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
Re: And So It Begins
NobleHouse #2889541 09/12/19 03:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,744
9000 Post Club Member
Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,744
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by iLaw
It is possible to discuss the impact of economic policies on the piano business without the discussion turning partisan.

I agree.


Me too.

I don't.

Take an example. Let's say the partisans in power pass certain tax laws for a certain government. If one discusses the impact of those tax laws, say on the piano industry, one might be positive about the effects of the new laws or negative. Among those that are positive are likely the partisans in power that implemented the new laws. Among those that are negative are likely the partisans on "the other side."

Now, perhaps discussions of first-order effects (e.g., Will the price of this piano go up? How much?) are not so partisan. But when discussing net economic effects, there will definitely be partisanship. (e.g. the Chinese will ultimately pay for these tariffs vs. the American consumers will ultimately pay for these tariffs, etc.)


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: And So It Begins
iLaw #2889544 09/12/19 03:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,723
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,723
Originally Posted by iLaw
It is possible to discuss the impact of economic policies on the piano business without the discussion turning partisan.

Larry.

So is calling someone Zen Master of Hate, Agent Orange, or 70 year old toddler considered partisan? confused


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: And So It Begins
Steve Cohen #2889549 09/12/19 03:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,224

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,224
... and so it begins ...



Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see
~Mark Twain
Re: And So It Begins
Steve Cohen #2889551 09/12/19 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 677
W
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 677
Or Cheeto Christ, Stupid Czar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW2SEpWWqXM

My position is one of strict neutrality.


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: And So It Begins
Steve Cohen #2889553 09/12/19 03:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,409
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,409
Ranty Rainbow? Who in the whole is that creep? Why would you post that?


[Linked Image]

Kawai NV10
Re: And So It Begins
Retsacnal #2889560 09/12/19 03:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
... and so it begins ...


....sigh.....



[Linked Image]
Re: And So It Begins
NobleHouse #2889612 09/12/19 06:31 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,076
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
... and so it begins ...


....sigh.....

+1


Piano Industry Consultant

Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: And So It Begins
Jethro #2889621 09/12/19 06:57 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,280
Silver Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,280
Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by iLaw
It is possible to discuss the impact of economic policies on the piano business without the discussion turning partisan.

Larry.

So is calling someone Zen Master of Hate, Agent Orange, or 70 year old toddler considered partisan? confused


Why are you intentionally trying to make this thread partisan and political when you know it is not acceptable on PW? Go find yourself a political/partisan forum where you can scratch that itch; Don’t be the minority here that can’t behave

Re: And So It Begins
TomLC #2889628 09/12/19 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by TomLC
Ranty Rainbow? Who in the whole is that creep? Why would you post that?


Agreed. Devout Christians and Jews and their cherished beliefs shouldn't be made into a punch line..... especially on a technical forum.


Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Re: And So It Begins
daniokeeper #2889689 09/12/19 09:54 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,744
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,744
Originally Posted by daniokeeper
Originally Posted by TomLC
Ranty Rainbow? Who in the whole is that creep? Why would you post that?


Agreed. Devout Christians and Jews and their cherished beliefs shouldn't be made into a punch line..... especially on a technical forum.

Huh? Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure where religion came into this thread.
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I don't.

Because it isn't.

Tariffs will raise prices of pianos and many other goods....that's not a political statement, it's a fact. The political issue arises when you decide whether that's a good thing or it is not.

If you're a consumer, you probably think it is not. If you are a competitor who manufactures in the USA (very very short list), you might think it is a good thing. I highly doubt, however, whether Steinway, Mason and Hamlin and Charles Walter will see a significant increase in sales due to these tariffs.

The president seems to be misguided in his belief, however, that the Chinese will pay for these tariffs. That's not how tariffs work. I learned this in Economics 1.01 in 1987. Tariffs are taxes that are passed on to consumers. Period. This is clarified and evident in the letter above.

You can support the policy or not. Your choice. If you care to render an opinion, it will by necessity be partisan. I have my pianos, I have no skin in this game. I have my opinions, but know better than to share them here.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

YouTube

Working On
Chopin Nocturne E min
Bach Inventions

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: And So It Begins
daniokeeper #2889760 09/13/19 03:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 4,802
L
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 4,802
Originally Posted by daniokeeper
Originally Posted by TomLC
Ranty Rainbow? Who in the whole is that creep? Why would you post that?


Agreed. Devout Christians and Jews and their cherished beliefs shouldn't be made into a punch line..... especially on a technical forum.

What about devout others ?

Re: And So It Begins
Steve Cohen #2889762 09/13/19 03:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 4,802
L
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 4,802
Stick to Chinese piano prices rising .It is safer !

Re: And So It Begins
Lady Bird #2889829 09/13/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by daniokeeper
Originally Posted by TomLC
Ranty Rainbow? Who in the whole is that creep? Why would you post that?


Agreed. Devout Christians and Jews and their cherished beliefs shouldn't be made into a punch line..... especially on a technical forum.

What about devout others ?


"Cheetos Christ" was in the post. This is being disrespectful to more than just Donald Trump.

There are those of us who hold the name sacred.

I'm not aware of any devout others who were similarly treated here. And you won't find a single post by me where I trivialized anyone else's religion, symbols, or persons.

Or, should I just sit meekly too intimidated to say anything?

Last edited by daniokeeper; 09/13/19 08:16 AM.

Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Re: And So It Begins
cmb13 #2889852 09/13/19 09:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,744
9000 Post Club Member
Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,744
Originally Posted by cmb13
Tariffs will raise prices of pianos and many other goods....that's not a political statement, it's a fact. The political issue arises when you decide whether that's a good thing or it is not.

If you're a consumer, you probably think it is not. If you are a competitor who manufactures in the USA (very very short list), you might think it is a good thing. I highly doubt, however, whether Steinway, Mason and Hamlin and Charles Walter will see a significant increase in sales due to these tariffs.

That's why I distinguished first-order effects (effect on price of pianos) from net-economy effects. Because economic forecasting is not a perfect science, claims can be made on both sides concerning net-economic effects and believing the claims on one side versus the other is very partisan. Think, for example, of Supply Side Economics? Discussions of that purely economic theory can certainly become very partisan! Because it's easy to agree on the first order effect (my taxes went down) but much more difficult to agree on the net-economy effect and that discussion is partisan.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: And So It Begins
Steve Cohen #2889860 09/13/19 09:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,723
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,723
Egads! Our Commander in Chief regularly tweets like he's a 16 yo school boy and yet I get called out? cry

As much I'm not a fan of donald (though as an independent I was going to vote for him initially), if there was one area that I'm glad a president is actually addressing is the trade deficit between the US and China much of which was supported by the theft of intellectual property by the Chinese over many decade and across many technologies. They had it coming. Now whether tariffs are the appropriate way to achieve this- I don't know. It could mean short term suffering for a few business sectors for a long term gain for many Americans. We'll have to see how it all plays out.

Right now we need to be more concerned about national security and the instability within the White House staff over all these firings and critical people stepping down over tariffs against the Chinese.

Last edited by Jethro; 09/13/19 09:33 AM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: And So It Begins
Jethro #2889898 09/13/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,224

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,224
Originally Posted by Jethro
Egads! Our Commander in Chief regularly tweets like he's a 16 yo school boy and yet I get called out? cry

He doesn't tweet here, so he isn't called out here.

Originally Posted by Jethro
Right now we need to be more concerned about national security and the instability within the White House staff over all these firings and critical people stepping down over tariffs against the Chinese.

Whether your claims, assertions or opinions are true or not, they aren't relevant here.

And making fun of the president's appearance is no more appropriate than it would have been to make fun of his predecessor's appearance (or anyone's appearance).



Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see
~Mark Twain
Re: And So It Begins
Steve Cohen #2889906 09/13/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,609
E
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,609
Thank you Tyrone, you described the problem perfectly!

And does anyone need a reminder that President Trump's main skill is slurs and name calling? A skill set low on my priorities for choosing a Commander in Chief.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: And So It Begins
Retsacnal #2889907 09/13/19 10:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by Jethro
Egads! Our Commander in Chief regularly tweets like he's a 16 yo school boy and yet I get called out? cry

He doesn't tweet here, so he isn't called out here.

Originally Posted by Jethro
Right now we need to be more concerned about national security and the instability within the White House staff over all these firings and critical people stepping down over tariffs against the Chinese.

Whether your claims, assertions or opinions are true or not, they aren't relevant here.

And making fun of the president's appearance is no more appropriate than it would have been to make fun of his predecessor's appearance (or anyone's appearance).

+1. Keep politics out of this forum as far as possible.



[Linked Image]
Re: And So It Begins
NobleHouse #2889910 09/13/19 10:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,096
B
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,096
Originally Posted by NobleHouse

+1. Keep politics out of this forum as far as possible.

Doesn’t seem to be possible in this thread which has been reported numerous times.

We’re done. Thread closed.


Greg
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Summer sale: Beautiful PEARL Concert Grand
by Andrew_G - 07/10/20 03:43 AM
Hammer Drilling Jig
by BDB - 07/10/20 12:15 AM
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
by Almaviva - 07/09/20 09:57 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,157
Posts2,978,962
Members97,722
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4