Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Hot topic, Does Yamaha make better pianos than Kawai

StefVR, what is better about the SH2 silent system? Ahead compared to what, Kawai's ATX3? I am considering getting an acoustic piano (now just digital) and would need a silent system, so very interested in the topic.

As makers of high quality pianos, Yamaha and Kawai are both latecomers. Neither were first to market.

For me the Binaural recording from the CFX is leaugues ahead in terms of sound quality on anything else I heard in headphones. But like with all things its probably best to try yourself.

So I’ll take a slightly different turn here. I’ll list some of the key aspects both brands (to my knowledge but of course I’ll be instantly corrected if wrong) have in common. For new players, it allows them to buy whichever brand they like best. I’m talking present day not 1970’s vintage.
1) both brands have competing pianos of different sizes and grades at different price points.- something for nearly every shopper
2) both have competing pianos in acoustic and quite a selection in digitals
3) both companies have a long history
4) both companies have good to great quality control
5) both companies do a good job of factory prep
6) both companies offer a ten year warranty on acoustic pianos
So whichever piano a player chooses for his/her home, it will be a great choice and should provide years of enjoyment if regular maintenance is performed by a qualified piano technician.
The reasons I chose Yamaha is I love the voice and the action more and I liked and felt comfortable shopping at the Yamaha dealer in town over the Kawai dealer.

When the OP posed this question I don't think he was referring to the differences between Yamaha or Kawai digital pianos. Personally I could care less. They serve a need ( I recently bought one the same day I bought my SK2) but they are not to be taken as serious performance instruments. For all the talk the president of Yamaha made about the piano as a cultural icon and not just a tool, I'm surprised how both Yamaha and Kawai have invested so much energy in digital pianos. They are accelerating the death knell of the acoustic piano in the process in my opinion by marketing these as suitable replacements for an acoustic. (but that's a debate for another day)

On my last post one last point I want to make is I personally believe if piano manufacturers really want to preserve the piano as a cultural icon and art form they will eventually have to phase out the stand alone digital piano and offer only true hybrids meaning there will always be a soundboard, strings, and hammer in a hybrid piano. Right now it looks like digital piano buyers tend to just upgrade to another digital as all these new features come out claiming to make the experience nearly indistinguishable to the real article. We all know that's not true and its killing the art form and its eventually going to kill the the acoustic piano. The best solution which already exists today is a full acoustic with a silent digital option. Innovate that. Maybe add an LED screen in replacement of the music desk ( I'm patenting that). Make them better, cheaper, more accessible but don't kill the art form in the process. That's going to take a brave stance and a little foresight by these piano manufacturers. Right now they digging their own graves.

I swear I think these piano manufacturers are inflicted with what we call in the medicine anosagnosia.

Only AvantGrand is really digital, the rest are acoustics with digital enhancements. And I don't think the OP was talking about performance instruments, because in this area both Yamaha and Kawai are not leaders (yet?); they are close contenders to few European makers IMHO.

Most people can't afford true acoustic, especially grand, not even because of price, but because of their surroundings - family, neighbors, limited space, etc.
Hybrids are great compromise, and if they are good for Juilliard, they are good for 99% of piano players IMO. By the way, Met Opera uses both acoustics and hybrids in rehearsal rooms.

I definitely cannot buy acoustic until my kids leave for college - the loud practice sounds distract them which resticts my practice time a lot, and my wife's upright stays unused for many years in her parents apartment. And in a year or two I plan to buy a hybrid.

I believe they serve a purpose as in for silent practice or if money really is the issue. If at Julliard or Met Opera practice they are using true hybrids ie. full acoustical with digital silent options I'm all good with that. It's start introducing digital components that negatively affect the interaction between what you touch and what you hear as a result- I think that's hurting the art form. That's destroying the piano as a cultural ambassador. That's watering down the art form. And that will eventually hurt the entire piano industry. I don't believe most people who start with a digital end up with an acoustic either in most cases.

It seems strange that they would need hybrids for silent practice at the Met as I would assume the pianos would be used primariiy to accompany singers. Perhaps some multi-talented vocalists prefer to sing and accompany themselves while wearing headphones.

I do not even know why we are talking about digitals and hybrids.,If there was any sense of direction we have lost it.

Well I'll try to get it back on track. Here's and interesting topic that discusses the future of the piano and something that both Kawai and Yamaha need to keep in mind specifically in regards to the acoustic piano. It's not going to evolve much and this was universally agreed upon by all the participants at the Steinway Hall Symposium in 1995. The Piano It's Present and Future

So if Kawai wants to "innovate" or Yamaha wants to "add value" there's not much to change in the acoustic line of instruments. The participants also agreed that most changes will occur on the electrical side of things and I agree with the educators who said this is a bad thing for teaching the art of the piano.

I also laugh how one participant claimed digital pianos will only broaden the market like television did to radio. Any piano dealers want to compare how they were doing with acoustic piano sales in 1995 as they are doing now? The number of people taking piano lessons may have not changed much but what they are buying clearly are. Also I have read that the reason that new pianos are hard to sell now because there is a glut of pianos in the used market. While this may be true most of these pianos are too old or in disarray to be cost effective to rebuild so they are flooding the market. They are also all aging around the same time so there are a lot of them. Because of this I have read this as a contributing factor to the decline of acoustic piano sales is overstated. They may exist but no ones buying them not because of a lack of interest in pianos, but because they are too expensive or not worth it to fix. I think digital pianos are having a negative effect on the sustainability of acoustic pianos and as a result the art form.

But yes, I digress. Yamaha and Kawai both make relatively equally good pianos and I'd buy either of them right now. There, back on track!

Yes but what is the point of such idealism. We have accoustic pianos,most are fairly good to excellent.We have used pianos,some excellent, some reasonable, some old and past thier best.
Some oldies are useless but have strong sentimental value.
Then you have people! Many live in apartments,there are restrictions on playing instruments !
People respond by doing what they can so they can also play an instrument or thier child can
learn.
For many buying ,carting up a heavy older accoustic piano that they or thier children can play
but feel often inhibited to play, does not always make sense.So they buy a good digital piano
and they and thier children are able to share music.Yes even classical music ! Life is not perfect
so there are many problems but people try to do the best.
Of course I agree an accoustic piano is IDEAL !
What is better a wrecked old accoustic a child has to learn.(just because it is a beloved heirloom )
or a good digital piano.Do you really think a teacher should forbid teaching classical music on a digital piano ?

If this is one situations I would agree the digital piano is a good option. If you have the means the acoustic piano is still the best option and has historically been the best option for decades. But as electronics have made life convenient they have made it easy- sometimes too easy. Learning the piano is a noble endeavor worth taking. Oftentimes those types of endeavor take sacrifice, time, space, and money. There are many reasons why an acoustic is smart buy especially for children and not just because you are ensuring that they have a good foundation to establish a good touch on the piano. Making an investment in a quality instrument- one that is not easy to sell or get rid of, takes up space and oftentimes is a little more pricey than a digital is beneficial because it requires commitment. It forces parents to continue to encourage their children to keep up with their practice and lessons. On top of that playing an acoustic piano is oftentimes more enjoyable than a digital. If you need to enhance that experience use an ipad on the music desk. There are plenty of fun apps out their that involve playing the piano. Today we are so used to electronic gadgets that we can try and just throw away or sell on Craigslist if we get bored of them. People sometimes just want to dabble with a digital piano to see if their will keep interest but sometimes that takes work by the parents. Sometimes it's too easy just to give up with today's electronics consumerism mentality. Making a worthwhile investment or sacrifice from the start sometimes encourages discipline and commitment.

It's just sad that owning an acoustic piano is seen as an "ideal" when it was a mainstay for so many middle class families when times were much simpler. "Idealism" is just an excuse for bad or lazy parenting. Ooops did I say that?

Yes - times were definitely "simpler" 100 years ago. Radios weren't widely owned and pianos were used to accompany silent movies. Audio recordings were primitive (to say the east) - and sound films, televisions, computers, and smart phones didn't exist. Folks were forced to create their own entertainment. Both my maternal and paternal grandparents owned pianos - even though no one in the family really played. One of the first pieces of furniture my Dad bought (at the beginning of his second marriage in the early 1950s) was a Baldwin Acrosonic. Dad could only play Heart and Soul - but it's the instrument that got me hooked on piano as a child. With all of the convenient sources of exciting entertainment available to the masses these days it is no wonder that so few people are actually making an effort to learn to play an instrument. On the positive side, when I volunteer at the Musical Instrument Museum here in Phoenix I'm always pleasantly surprised by the number of people (young and old) who regularly sit down and very competently play the Steinway B sitting in the main lobby.

As for the bad/lazy parenting thing...…...that's really nothing new.

And now - to get us back on track - I own both a Kawai built acoustic upright and digital - which I objectively and subjectively preferred over the comparable Yamaha models I auditioned. They were also a tad less expensive, which was frosting on the cake.

I myself would rather see people that can’t afford a decent acoustic go with digital than a poor, cheap, poorly constructed, bad sounding acoustic. This is my own opinion but practicing on an acoustic piano seems to sharpen my playing with expression skills. I can’t get sloppy at all. I learned my “chops” on Beethoven and Bach. I think acoustic pianos will be around for a long time and hopefully both Kawai and Yamaha should still be competing in both digital, hybrid, Transacoustic, and acoustic pianos.

I know for sure that both Met and Juilliard use AvantGrands.
Met also uses true digitals and Silent, not sure about TransAcoustic and Disklavier. Don't ask me why. Probably because Yamaha is Met official piano vendor and brings them every high level model they build.
Disklavier would meke sense for Juilliard though.
Lifecycle of acoustics is much longer, and while dealers buy and sell on used market, manufacturers are hurt by its existence a lot.
Digitals are much better option for lower price segment - small weight, voice adjustments, recording, etc , and no maintenance are good selling points for customers, while shorter lifespan is good for manufacturers.
True acoustics with time will more and more become a boutique option aimed at institutions, concert performers and true aficionados IMHO.
This is just my opinion, of course.

Hi Vlad please don't kid yourself into believing that any Julliard students taking piano performance as a major at Julliard are regularly practicing on an digital piano like the Avantgrand. Julliard is noted for having the largest Steinway grand collection in the world around 275 acoustic pianos to be exact. The only reason there are a few Yamaha digitals hanging around is because they are contributing money to build some of their technology departments and if digitals are being used they are being used for non-piano majors probably in group classes for courses in composition or introductory courses. At the Center for Innovation in the Arts where Julliard students explore technology in music at the center is a Yamaha C7 acoustic. Julliard would not survive long as an institution if word got out that piano performance majors were learning on digitals.

This is where Yamaha's efforts to "boost it's image" is in direct contradiction to their efforts to educate the general population that the piano is a cultural item and not just a tool. When an electronic facsimile is used to represent a cultural icon I think they fail in that message. If more parents of highly talented children are under the impression that Julliard students learn serious piano on digitals and buy a digital as a result for that talented child against the teacher's recommendation- I don't think that helps sustain the art form.