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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889052 09/10/19 05:38 PM
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It's just LR for me. It's important not to look at the video when listening, as visual cues can be given priority in your perception of the sound location.

Last edited by johnstaf; 09/10/19 05:39 PM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2889065 09/10/19 06:16 PM
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Thanks Tyrone, I do hear a binaural effect in the video you posted. I guess my earphones are fine. Not sure why CyberGene’s YouTube video sounds stereo to me, but I suspect visual cues may help.

It’s actually uncanny... I could actually feel my ears get warmer when he lit the match. 😓

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2889067 09/10/19 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Volusiano, to answer your questions: it doesn’t matter if you record to a USB drive or through line-out (or the headphone out for that matter), they will always produce the same sound.

If headphones are connected and voice 1 is selected, the binaural patch would automatically be enabled. So, in my recording above you should be hearing binaural (same as if I recorded off the headphone jack) because I recorded while having my headphones on.

And to answer your last question and clarify my previous paragraph. There’s a setting you can change which will prevent the piano from using binaural even when you have your headphones on. Yamaha recommend doing that when the audio will be listened to on speakers after it has been exported/recorded. However I like how binaural sounds even with speakers.

Long story short: you can hear binaural in all my recordings I posted here.

Thanks for the clarification, CyberGene. I enjoy watching and listening to that last video you posted. It sounds very good.

As you guys can probably guess at my questions about binaural so far: -> I'm trying to understand how the binaural experience on the N1X or N3X is compared to the experience without binaural experience. However, without an A to B comparison, it's hard to understand this difference. Is there any piece of video playing posted so far that demonstrated this A to B comparison? Maybe the same recording, one with the binaural sound and the same piece recorded without the binaural sound? Thanks!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889068 09/10/19 06:22 PM
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I don’t hear 3D in the CFX binaural either but there’s still some depth to what I hear which I haven’t heard in many (any?) other digital pianos. Only Nord comes to mind which also sounds similar. But it certainly doesn’t sound like I’m playing in front of a grand, or at the back or whatever locational feeling other people might hear.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889084 09/10/19 06:50 PM
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I think binaural for the piano is a different thing, because it's a diffuse sound source which can't be precisely localised. The advantage of these techniques for such a source is just to give a greater sense of being there.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Volusiano #2889099 09/10/19 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Volusiano
While I don't have the N1X, I wonder if this device (the Super X-Fi) may help make playing my N3 on headphones a better experience? That's why I'm asking. Thanks.

Well, I looked into this Super X-Fi device some more and the Amp is designed to connect via USB (as an input) to computers or smart phones or tablets, so it's not going to work with a 3.5mm headphone jack like what the N3 has anyway.

Its Air BT headphones version is designed to connect to a smart phone or table as well, because you need an app to install and use on your phone to set it up and control it from the app. So even if I get a Bluetooth transmitter to plug into my N3 35mm headphone jack, it doesn't look like I can sync up this Super X-Fi Air BT headphones with that Bluetooth transmitter anyway.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Volusiano #2889102 09/10/19 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Volusiano
Originally Posted by Volusiano
While I don't have the N1X, I wonder if this device (the Super X-Fi) may help make playing my N3 on headphones a better experience? That's why I'm asking. Thanks.

Well, I looked into this Super X-Fi device some more and the Amp is designed to connect via USB (as an input) to computers or smart phones or tablets, so it's not going to work with a 3.5mm headphone jack like what the N3 has anyway.

Its Air BT headphones version is designed to connect to a smart phone or table as well, because you need an app to install and use on your phone to set it up and control it from the app. So even if I get a Bluetooth transmitter to plug into my N3 35mm headphone jack, it doesn't look like I can sync up this Super X-Fi Air BT headphones with that Bluetooth transmitter anyway.

I have the original one and I connected through my computer. I don't have the two versions which are built into headphones. That said, for the headphone versions, I do see that they have a line-in in the specs. See table at the bottom of this page. Now I don't have these so I can't say for sure, but I think I will buy one of these headphone versions too and try it out myself as I could use a line-in myself, if it is available. The older version that I have has no line-in, as I said.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2889110 09/10/19 08:37 PM
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I read the FAQ of the SXFI Air C (the non BT version headset designed to be connected via USB) and it says that in passive mode using line-in, the SXFI functionality is not going to work because the device is not powered by the USB connection.

There's no FAQ for the SXFI Air BT headphones so it's not clear if the same applies to this device or not, but perhaps not because unlike the SXFI Air C device (which requires USB connection for power), this SXFI Air device has its own battery for power. So maybe the SXFI functionality will work because the power from the battery always put the SXFI Air in active mode. But the PC World review said this about the SXFI Air:

"In order to use the full functionality of the SXFI Air with your PC, console, or Mac, you’ll have to plug in via the USB-C cable located on the left ear cup. That USB-C port is also where the headphones charge."

This worries me a little bit that if you don't use BT and don't connect the USB-C cable, but connect only via line-in, whether the SXFI Air will default to passive mode and disable the SXFI functionality or not, even though it does have an internal battery.

The other concern I have is that the SXFI Air review from PC World doesn't think he Air is so hot, especially in bass reproduction.

Anyway, if you still plan to go ahead and get yourself the Air BT headphones to try the line-in option, I would really like to know if you can get it to work connecting to your N1X headphone jack and still be able to experience the SXFI functionality.. Also would like to get your impression on the audio quality of the Air, especially in the area of bass reproduction.

Thanks!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2889112 09/10/19 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Volusiano
I read the FAQ of the SXFI Air C (the non BT version headset designed to be connected via USB) and it says that in passive mode using line-in, the SXFI functionality is not going to work because the device is not powered by the USB connection.

There's no FAQ for the SXFI Air BT headphones so it's not clear if the same applies to this device or not, but perhaps not because unlike the SXFI Air C device (which requires USB connection for power), this SXFI Air device has its own battery for power. So maybe the SXFI functionality will work because the power from the battery always put the SXFI Air in active mode. But the PC World review said this about the SXFI Air:

"In order to use the full functionality of the SXFI Air with your PC, console, or Mac, you’ll have to plug in via the USB-C cable located on the left ear cup. That USB-C port is also where the headphones charge."

This worries me a little bit that if you don't use BT and don't connect the USB-C cable, but connect only via line-in, whether the SXFI Air will default to passive mode and disable the SXFI functionality or not, even though it does have an internal battery.

The other concern I have is that the SXFI Air review from PC World doesn't think he Air is so hot, especially in bass reproduction.

Anyway, if you still plan to go ahead and get yourself the Air BT headphones to try the line-in option, I would really like to know if you can get it to work connecting to your N1X headphone jack and still be able to experience the SXFI functionality.. Also would like to get your impression on the audio quality of the Air, especially in the area of bass reproduction.

Thanks!

I decided to solve this issue with a Raspberry Pi Zero W running Linux and a small audio converter/adapter for it, and a small OTG hub. Should only cost me about $40 and take two hours to set up. Watch this space to see if this all works or not. smile I'll be trying it with both my original SX-Fi that I already own and one of the Air headphones. Don't know which one I will buy though. You've read through the info. Any reason to get one instead of the other for this particular setup?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2889114 09/10/19 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Decided to use a 24-bit adapter like this one instead of the el-cheapo above, so total cost should be more like $50 or $55.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
johnstaf #2889115 09/10/19 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think binaural for the piano is a different thing, because it's a diffuse sound source which can't be precisely localised. The advantage of these techniques for such a source is just to give a greater sense of being there.


I think you're right, for the reasons you describe.

One of the disadvantages of "plain" stereo imaging is that it tends to make sounds appear like they're coming from the middle of your head, which quickly/eventually results in listening fatigue. With the wider soundstage of binaural audio, the sound appears to come around you (or in front/back,etc.), in any case outside of your head, resulting in less fatigue.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2889121 09/10/19 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I decided to solve this issue with a Raspberry Pi Zero W running Linux and a small audio converter/adapter for it, and a small OTG hub. Should only cost me about $40 and take two hours to set up. Watch this space to see if this all works or not. smile I'll be trying it with both my original SX-Fi that I already own and one of the Air headphones. Don't know which one I will buy though. You've read through the info. Any reason to get one instead of the other for this particular setup?


I'd be inclined to get the Amp if I can get a line in solution like you're trying to build just because from the few reviews I've read about the Air headphones, their quality is mediocre. So why ruin the SXFI experience with mediocre headphones in the first place? (regardless that it's Bluetooth with a set of headphones on top of the SXFI functionality for only $10 more than the Amp that has SXFI with no headphones.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
johnstaf #2889122 09/10/19 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think binaural for the piano is a different thing, because it's a diffuse sound source which can't be precisely localised. The advantage of these techniques for such a source is just to give a greater sense of being there.


That's the feeling I got when I first tried the N1X binaural. I had to take my headphones off because I thought the sound might be coming from the external speakers. I still occasionally check to see if sound is coming out of my monitors while using the the CFX binaural because as you said, it's not a "precisely localized" sound. It's a pretty cool experience.

God Bless,
David


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889128 09/10/19 11:10 PM
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Does your N1X binaural output sound the same as CyberGene's YouTube recording or different?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889138 09/11/19 12:21 AM
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I don’t see a reason why it would sound different


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
navindra #2889144 09/11/19 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by navindra
Does your N1X binaural output sound the same as CyberGene's YouTube recording or different?


I think it sounds the same. I can't play the same piece that Gene does (it's too difficult for me) for a direct comparative analysis, but here is a simple song using the N1X binaural sample.



God Bless,
David


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889156 09/11/19 02:41 AM
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Nice one, David! Sounds really great on my iPad Pro speakers. I think your flourishes also help visually but I can't quite get the binaural illusion to work on headphones... probably Volusiano has the best idea to compare the same MIDI piece with and without binaural effect.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889163 09/11/19 03:38 AM
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Back when I still had my Yamaha CP1, I used to run it through a friend's Quantec Room Simulator using one of those really short 'room ambience' settings. Later, when I first heard the binaural CFX sound, I thought it sounded very close to what I got with the QRS. Amazingly, the QRS is from 1982, but still sounds very, very good. It's one of those classic high-end reverbs up there with AMS, Lexicon, Ursa Major, etc.

I'd like to see DP manufacturers invest more in modelling piano body and ambient resonances. I'm sure it can be done without memory-intensive sampling. They just need to get their DSP engineers interested in the theory of acoustics. wink

Last edited by jve; 09/11/19 03:43 AM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2889165 09/11/19 04:25 AM
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If I wasn’t aware of the term binaural or how it’s made and how it’s supposed to represent positional sound and all these pre-concepts, and if I just heard the Yamaha CFX binaural as in the N1X I would have simply said it’s a good stereo sample with very realistic room reverberation that’s unlike the typical DSP reverb. I fail to hear positional sound, so I’m also skeptical in the “binaural” theory to some degree, but that particular ambiance/reverb in the binaural CFX is very convincing and doesn’t sound like being in my head as Gombessa put it very well.

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/11/19 04:27 AM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
navindra #2889273 09/11/19 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by navindra
Nice one, David! Sounds really great on my iPad Pro speakers. I think your flourishes also help visually but I can't quite get the binaural illusion to work on headphones...


I'm so ignorant. I wasn't entirely sure what you meant by "flourishes." I looked it up, and of course contextually you're referring to the hand gestures.

My wife asked me about that and I told her that's just what my body naturally does. In the piano course I'm taking (Duane Shinn) his hands never really leave the keys.

I played the drums for years and I'm used to flailing my arms. I also lecture a lot publicly and my arms are very active.

God Bless,
David


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