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Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
Learux #2886991 09/04/19 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Learux
Yep, the $10K DP sounds better then then the one that cost less then half as much.



...........

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2886997 09/04/19 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mwf
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
OK, check the piano sound of this video for the Casio GP-510 and please tell us what you think of this piano sound?
---"L. v. Beethoven - Sonata No. 14, Op. 27 no. 2, movement 3 - Kateryna Titova on GP-510 - YouTube" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtp0TJlgnY

Check also:
---Casio UK at https://music.casio.co.uk/premium-grand-hybrid
---Casio Europe at https://www.casio-europe.com/euro/products/musical-instruments/celviano-grand-hybrid/


Now I'm 100 per cent certain I'm not getting a casio gp510 thank you for the link. Such a shame they have an outstanding action but the samples are well behind yamaha, roland and kawai in terms of quality. I mean you listen to that moonlight sonata performance on the gp510 and I didn't hear one note that sounded anywhere near authentic, why is it so hard for them to create something that sounds like an actual piano and not a bunch of their calculators stuck together.

That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test.

Anyone interested in this piano or any of these overpriced branded instruments should first listen to a good quality piano sample like this:

https://youtu.be/fHncfQhmWi8



Fortunately they play the same piecie. And Roland sounds rather like pianoforte than a modern piano in comparison...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QkkBP07egU

Also, comparing any digital piano with the best VST instrument on the planet, which is Garritan CFX, is also not fair, as Garritan is in the class of it's own and only VSL can match it.

Last edited by MrKaramba; 09/04/19 05:34 PM.
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2886999 09/04/19 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mwf
Now I'm 100 per cent certain I'm not getting a casio gp510 thank you for the link...

...That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test.


I think you overstate things somewhat. Nothing is quite as black and white as you seem to think.

I'm no great fan of the Casios but they have three distinct piano samples onboard and the Berlin Grand (Bechstein) is quite nice to my ears. The real horror is the 'Hamburg', which is the basis for all Casio's other DP sounds across their range. I've said it many times but it has a very grating (to me) and simplistic 'plinky plonky' timbre in the upper midrange, where the melody is carried. I can spot it a mile away and I think the Beethoven link above is using that Hamburg sound. But the 'Berlin' Grand on the GP series is on another level; more or less competitive with what Yamaha, Kawai and Roland are doing; certainly good enough for someone to prefer it in certain circumstances.

I had hands on a GP400 today actually, at Millers in Cambridge. I didn't play it on this occasion but just had a little feel and I think the key action feels pretty good, much more interesting and mechanical (i.e., authentic) than a nearby Roland (Kiyola thing in beautiful oak) with the PHA-50 action.


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Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2887002 09/04/19 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mwf

Now I'm 100 per cent certain I'm not getting a casio gp510 thank you for the link. Such a shame they have an outstanding action but the samples are well behind yamaha, roland and kawai in terms of quality. I mean you listen to that moonlight sonata performance on the gp510 and I didn't hear one note that sounded anywhere near authentic, why is it so hard for them to create something that sounds like an actual piano and not a bunch of their calculators stuck together.

That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test.


On the first post of this thread, you characterized Casio samples for the GP500 as "acceptable". What happened?

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
QuasiUnaFantasia #2887005 09/04/19 06:19 PM
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I was inclined to agree with this ... until I checked the facts:
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
---In 2015/12/24, the Casio GP-500 was first sold at £2,948.00 ($3,601 as of 2019/09/04).
---In 2019/09/04, the Casio GP-510 is now sold at £3,895.00 ($4,758 as of 2019/09/04)

Okay, this direct comparison of selling prices is seriously misguided. In that period of time, the UK pound has dropped by 23% relative to the EUR, and quite conceivably it has dropped by a similar percentage against the Japanese Yen. That has to be factored in.

As of 24-Dec-2015, one USD bought 120.32 yen or 0.6693 GBP or 0.9129 EUR.
As of 04-Sep-2019, one USD bought 106.37 yen or 0.8162 GBP or 1.0954 EUR.

So the dollar is up against the pound, but down against the yen.

In Dec 2015, the older GP500 selling for 2948 GBP = 4405 USD = 3229 EUR = 529,977 yen.
In Sep 2019, the newer GP510 listing for 3985 GBP = 4882 USD = 4397 EUR = 468,521 yen.

In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2887006 09/04/19 06:27 PM
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I do not need a hearing test, I just probably heard enough inexpensive DP in my life to disagree with "That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test".

Especially considering that this statement is supported by comparison of GP to N1 + Garritan. What is the point of such comparison? GP can be paired with Garritan as well. Not mentioning that even GP vs (current) N1X would not be a fair comparison considerignt their price points.

If it has decent action - it might be a good contender in 5K street price range.


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
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Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2887093 09/05/19 02:56 AM
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I actually think they have done what they said in the marketing blub. The notes don't seem to die away quickly after the key is pressed which is an improvement. They also said they had made it easier to play softly but I cant help but think they have went too far here. There seems to be parts where the volume drops suddenly and quiet notes are lost. I also think the hamburg grand is the weakest of the sounds. I think it sounds alright in the low end above mf but pretty poor in the mid and upper range when played quietly. I do love the Berlin and vienna sounds though..

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
MacMacMac #2887102 09/05/19 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I was inclined to agree with this ... until I checked the facts:
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
---In 2015/12/24, the Casio GP-500 was first sold at £2,948.00 ($3,601 as of 2019/09/04).
---In 2019/09/04, the Casio GP-510 is now sold at £3,895.00 ($4,758 as of 2019/09/04)

Okay, this direct comparison of selling prices is seriously misguided. In that period of time, the UK pound has dropped by 23% relative to the EUR, and quite conceivably it has dropped by a similar percentage against the Japanese Yen. That has to be factored in.

As of 24-Dec-2015, one USD bought 120.32 yen or 0.6693 GBP or 0.9129 EUR.
As of 04-Sep-2019, one USD bought 106.37 yen or 0.8162 GBP or 1.0954 EUR.

So the dollar is up against the pound, but down against the yen.

In Dec 2015, the older GP500 selling for 2948 GBP = 4405 USD = 3229 EUR = 529,977 yen.
In Sep 2019, the newer GP510 listing for 3985 GBP = 4882 USD = 4397 EUR = 468,521 yen.

In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.


Thank you for taking the time to calculate the prices exactly. Your figures also show that Casio are asking 11.6% less for the new GP510 than they did for the old GP500 (Casio, being Japanese, are paid in Yen).

Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
OK, check the piano sound of this video for the Casio GP-510 and please tell us what you think of this piano sound?
---"L. v. Beethoven - Sonata No. 14, Op. 27 no. 2, movement 3 - Kateryna Titova on GP-510 - YouTube" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtp0TJlgnY

Check also:
---Casio UK at https://music.casio.co.uk/premium-grand-hybrid
---Casio Europe at https://www.casio-europe.com/euro/products/musical-instruments/celviano-grand-hybrid/



I listened to the Beethoven in two different ways, both of them through my Yamaha AV-receiver and large loudspeakers. In the first attempt, with the receiver adding its own reverb and equalization, the sound was indistinguishable from an acoustic piano. In the second attempt, without the added reverb and equalization, the GP510 sounded thin and unnatural.

Last edited by QuasiUnaFantasia; 09/05/19 04:07 AM.

Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
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Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
Learux #2887108 09/05/19 05:11 AM
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I've just listened to these recordings and I've found no noticable improvements over their old samples which I dislike. Sounds cheap as before.

Originally Posted by Learux
Just in case if you guys need a reminder how great these pianos really are. For the price you pay, it is hard to do better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNRY2qOH5IM

I disagree. In my opinion it sounds badly. Very far from how a real grand sounds.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
QuasiUnaFantasia #2887119 09/05/19 06:10 AM
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Yes, it seems the Japanese are swimming against the tide.
The yen is rising, making their merchandise more expensive.
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Quote
In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.
Thank you for taking the time to calculate the prices exactly. Your figures also show that Casio are asking 11.6% less for the new GP510 than they did for the old GP500 (Casio, being Japanese, are paid in Yen).

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
MacMacMac #2887216 09/05/19 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, it seems the Japanese are swimming against the tide.
The yen is rising, making their merchandise more expensive.
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Quote
In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.
Thank you for taking the time to calculate the prices exactly. Your figures also show that Casio are asking 11.6% less for the new GP510 than they did for the old GP500 (Casio, being Japanese, are paid in Yen).



Only if they build it in Japan. The prime cost for goods built in China is down (keeping US tariffs aside). Indonesia - not sure.Where are GP built?
But if Yen goes up, then when the company reports their global earnings, they will report less income in Yen, either because they sold less units oversees for the same Yen price (by increasing local prices), or they sold more units oversees but for a reduced Yen price (keeping local prices the same). This is all about what they prefer - keep price margins, or keep market share.


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2887896 09/07/19 02:56 PM
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I just wondered what everyone thought to the sound in this Rachmaninov recording on the gp-500... again, it uses the Hamburg Grand sample.
https://youtu.be/cNRY2qOH5IM

I think it's rather good personally. If the gp-510 is in improvement on this, perhaps the Beethoven recording settings were not tweaked to their full potential?

Just a thought folks.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2906993 10/31/19 11:39 PM
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Let us hear the feedback from a person who bought the Casio hybrid digital grand piano GP-510 and who has had before the Casio GP-500. From "L. v. Beethoven - Sonata No. 14, Op. 27 no. 2, movement 3 - Kateryna Titova on GP-510 - YouTube" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMt...wyuzpjmgkjuav51w03c010c.1572564644063059
Simon Johnson
3 weeks ago [from 2019/11/01]
I've had my new Casio GP510 for a few days now and I really love it. I had the GP500 before but swapped it for an expensive, brand new, Yamaha C1X grand fitted with a silent system because I wanted a 'real' piano. I actually preferred the Casio so after much anguish I sold the Yamaha and I've gone back to another Casio. In my opinion the GP510 has a better base than a small acoustic grand piano (even an expensive one) it's also easier to play at a sensible volume level without disturbing people several rooms away.

Michael
2 weeks ago [from 2019/11/01]
In your opinion, what are the differences between the GP-500 and the GP-510 on various aspects: piano sound, touch, etc.?

Simon Johnson
3 hours ago [from 2019/11/01]
@Michael Not much difference really. Perhaps a slightly improved bass sound and slightly easier to play very quietly but as I no longer have the 500 to compare it to it's hard to be sure. For both versions the sound on the headphones is excellent and the sound on the piano's speakers is less good but not bad.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2908109 11/04/19 01:29 AM
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The Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid's real problem is the mechanical bits. The keys are too short. The update hasn't changed that.

Last edited by trigalg693; 11/04/19 01:29 AM.
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2908130 11/04/19 04:45 AM
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I will never buy a 2/3/4 thousand Dollar digital piano without the possibility to tweak the sound with a good equalizer.
I am not 18 years old, so my ears need a certain amount or treble and high mids to compensate the loss of frequencies.
Especially as a musician...especially when working with a brass section...
I really love my Casi PX5S because I have the possiblility to alter the sound with a 4 plus 3 band EQ with adjustable frequencies. (DSP EQ plus master EQ)
It changes the nice standard piano sound into something extraordinary that made me sell my Kawai CS10, RD2000 and my old Nord Piano without hesitation.
Now here you only get a pseudo EQ...even the Kawais have a 4 band EQ (but does not help too much to eliminate the muddy mids)


"Ohne Musik wäre das Leben ein Irrtum" -Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
Learux #2930159 01/04/20 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Learux
Yep, the $10K DP sounds better then then the one that cost less then half as much.



Yes... looks like some people are so full of money that can not see price ranges like 90% of the other ones needs to see. And looks like this 10% of well afortunate fellas are the big majority of piano forums lol. One of the things I almost read here are things like "your intermediary sedan sounds and drives like s**t, you shoud buy a ferrari just like mine" or "if you can not buy a mclaren, you can not talk about the sound of your car" or "these japanese brands that build calculators only can build craps because calculators are cheap and everyone people can buy that, you should buy a piano from a japanese brand that build motorcicles or boat engines, these are expensive products what - no doubt - make their pianos better" LOL.

I don't know in another countries but in mine, a casio GP 400 (just a 500 in a cheaper furniture) is in a completely different price range of the majority DPs that people compares here, like literally less then half in some cases! I have a GP 400 and must say, even in other category, I prefer his action, touch and sound more than another expensive models/brands I had the oportunity to play. I, with no doubt, like his action, touch, sound and dinamics more than 100% than all others DPs in his price range I had the oportunity to play. But I don't have access to all the models other players here already have so this is not a meaningful opinion, its just mine.

About the sound, maybe i need a hearing test like other one said above but its ok to me LOL. Don't let me be misunderstood, It is hundred of years far from a real piano but, in my opinion, it is not this far than any other DP IN HIS PRICE RANGE (i am talking here only about Bechstein sample in Casio, the better one). Even from other price ranges, yes there are differences in the sound samples but when you look to the difference between ALL DP's and a real concert grand, it puts DP's from GP 500 and up in a close field. I only hope people are not judging his sound in a poor record or in a cellphone speaker LOL. Even so, I ask myself if have some people even stopped to think that, to some others, a closer to real action to study at home and than go to a real piano is most important that a bit better sample costing two times the same price?

To be honest, what people say about Casio GP's makes no difference to me. The only things that bores me is that, before to buy a DP a lot of people comes here (some have not the oportunity to taste the DP before to buy and just needs help), to a lot of them (just like me) they probably will never reach the top price range of DP's in the market and a lot (a lot) of them will miss the opportunity to have a great instrument because of some crazy non sense comparations and a little bit of prejudgement. But it is a problem that Casio should fix, not me wink. Cheers.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
ThePianoVault.com #2930162 01/04/20 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePianoVault.com
I just wondered what everyone thought to the sound in this Rachmaninov recording on the gp-500... again, it uses the Hamburg Grand sample.
https://youtu.be/cNRY2qOH5IM

I think it's rather good personally. If the gp-510 is in improvement on this, perhaps the Beethoven recording settings were not tweaked to their full potential?

Just a thought folks.


As a GP 400 owner I think all the great work made in this piano is concentrate in Berlin sample (the Bechstein one). Compared to Berlin, all the other samples are poor, even their dinamics range are shorter. I only use Berlin and think videos with this sample is the best to have a glimpse of what the DP can do.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2930169 01/04/20 03:27 PM
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Honestly you make some very valid points and I must say a lot depends on the region you’re in and how much you can spend. For example prices in Europe are usually quite down compared to US, because I can tell you that (at least in my country) if prices were as high for Rolands and in US nobody would buy the more expensive models here. Most shops are closing already and they are mostly selling only cheaper stuff, most expensive models are extremely rare to find and try even hours of traveling away from my location (and it’s not like I live in the middle of nowhere). Casio models on the other hand are selling very very well and are quite popular, I’m not surprised at all. For example with the gp310 for a huge price discount to the competition you get an incredible action, unmatched at the same price range. With the difference between the gp310 and a Kawai/Yamaha hybrid i can buy a blazing fast PC, a bunch of VSTs and some good monitors, if I’m not already satisfied with the internal sounds. And the good thing is that I can use the PC and monitors for other things or pianos too. The px 870 is another example of excellent price-performance ratio. It all comes down to how much money you’re willing to spend on a digital instrument, but personally after a certain price tag it just sounds like madness to me. Digitals don’t last anywhere as long as an acoustic piano and spending crazy amount of money on some plastic parts and $1 chips sounds crazy to me. I’m telling you, the second Casio improves the sound and keeps these prices, it’s the only thing that will be sold, at least around here.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
mwf #2930178 01/04/20 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mwf
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
OK, check the piano sound of this video for the Casio GP-510 and please tell us what you think of this piano sound?
---"L. v. Beethoven - Sonata No. 14, Op. 27 no. 2, movement 3 - Kateryna Titova on GP-510 - YouTube" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtp0TJlgnY

Check also:
---Casio UK at https://music.casio.co.uk/premium-grand-hybrid
---Casio Europe at https://www.casio-europe.com/euro/products/musical-instruments/celviano-grand-hybrid/


Now I'm 100 per cent certain I'm not getting a casio gp510 thank you for the link. Such a shame they have an outstanding action but the samples are well behind yamaha, roland and kawai in terms of quality. I mean you listen to that moonlight sonata performance on the gp510 and I didn't hear one note that sounded anywhere near authentic, why is it so hard for them to create something that sounds like an actual piano and not a bunch of their calculators stuck together.

That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test.

Anyone interested in this piano or any of these overpriced branded instruments should first listen to a good quality piano sample like this:

https://youtu.be/fHncfQhmWi8

Yeah, why get the gp310 with a long lasting (almost) hybrid action and pair it with the Garritan CFX full the guy in the video you linked is using. You can even copy his settings since he posted them. But by all means buy a NV10 if you prefer. The thing with these Casios is that you get a better and more durable action than anything in the 2-3k price range from competitors, and if needed you can pair it with any VST you like just like any other piano, but you have one of the very best actions you can possibly have on a digital, for the lowest price possible, and it’s gonna last longer than the competition at that price range. Surely a terrible deal, right? Why would I ever want to buy this instead of the 10k NV10.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update?
Raekon #2930353 01/05/20 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Raekon
...The px 870 is another example of excellent price-performance ratio. It all comes down to how much money you’re willing to spend on a digital instrument, but personally after a certain price tag it just sounds like madness to me. Digitals don’t last anywhere as long as an acoustic piano and spending crazy amount of money on some plastic parts and $1 chips sounds crazy to me. ....

Same here. I don't see spending loads of money for a DP that's going to have that faint aura of obsolescence about it as soon as the next model is released, real honest to goodness genuine wood and stuff notwithstanding. Digitals all seem somewhat disposable anyway, like laptops or smart phones.

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