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Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: Learux] #2886991
09/04/19 05:16 PM
09/04/19 05:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 594
United Kingdom
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mwf Offline OP
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mwf  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 594
United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Learux
Yep, the $10K DP sounds better then then the one that cost less then half as much.



...........

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Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: mwf] #2886997
09/04/19 05:32 PM
09/04/19 05:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 94
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MrKaramba Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by mwf
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
OK, check the piano sound of this video for the Casio GP-510 and please tell us what you think of this piano sound?
---"L. v. Beethoven - Sonata No. 14, Op. 27 no. 2, movement 3 - Kateryna Titova on GP-510 - YouTube" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtp0TJlgnY

Check also:
---Casio UK at https://music.casio.co.uk/premium-grand-hybrid
---Casio Europe at https://www.casio-europe.com/euro/products/musical-instruments/celviano-grand-hybrid/


Now I'm 100 per cent certain I'm not getting a casio gp510 thank you for the link. Such a shame they have an outstanding action but the samples are well behind yamaha, roland and kawai in terms of quality. I mean you listen to that moonlight sonata performance on the gp510 and I didn't hear one note that sounded anywhere near authentic, why is it so hard for them to create something that sounds like an actual piano and not a bunch of their calculators stuck together.

That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test.

Anyone interested in this piano or any of these overpriced branded instruments should first listen to a good quality piano sample like this:

https://youtu.be/fHncfQhmWi8



Fortunately they play the same piecie. And Roland sounds rather like pianoforte than a modern piano in comparison...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QkkBP07egU

Also, comparing any digital piano with the best VST instrument on the planet, which is Garritan CFX, is also not fair, as Garritan is in the class of it's own and only VSL can match it.

Last edited by MrKaramba; 09/04/19 05:34 PM.
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: mwf] #2886999
09/04/19 05:37 PM
09/04/19 05:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,787
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Online content
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EssBrace  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,787
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by mwf
Now I'm 100 per cent certain I'm not getting a casio gp510 thank you for the link...

...That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test.


I think you overstate things somewhat. Nothing is quite as black and white as you seem to think.

I'm no great fan of the Casios but they have three distinct piano samples onboard and the Berlin Grand (Bechstein) is quite nice to my ears. The real horror is the 'Hamburg', which is the basis for all Casio's other DP sounds across their range. I've said it many times but it has a very grating (to me) and simplistic 'plinky plonky' timbre in the upper midrange, where the melody is carried. I can spot it a mile away and I think the Beethoven link above is using that Hamburg sound. But the 'Berlin' Grand on the GP series is on another level; more or less competitive with what Yamaha, Kawai and Roland are doing; certainly good enough for someone to prefer it in certain circumstances.

I had hands on a GP400 today actually, at Millers in Cambridge. I didn't play it on this occasion but just had a little feel and I think the key action feels pretty good, much more interesting and mechanical (i.e., authentic) than a nearby Roland (Kiyola thing in beautiful oak) with the PHA-50 action.


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: mwf] #2887002
09/04/19 05:56 PM
09/04/19 05:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
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R111 Online content
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R111  Online Content
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by mwf

Now I'm 100 per cent certain I'm not getting a casio gp510 thank you for the link. Such a shame they have an outstanding action but the samples are well behind yamaha, roland and kawai in terms of quality. I mean you listen to that moonlight sonata performance on the gp510 and I didn't hear one note that sounded anywhere near authentic, why is it so hard for them to create something that sounds like an actual piano and not a bunch of their calculators stuck together.

That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test.


On the first post of this thread, you characterized Casio samples for the GP500 as "acceptable". What happened?

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: QuasiUnaFantasia] #2887005
09/04/19 06:19 PM
09/04/19 06:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,432
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,432
Raleigh, North Carolina
I was inclined to agree with this ... until I checked the facts:
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
---In 2015/12/24, the Casio GP-500 was first sold at £2,948.00 ($3,601 as of 2019/09/04).
---In 2019/09/04, the Casio GP-510 is now sold at £3,895.00 ($4,758 as of 2019/09/04)

Okay, this direct comparison of selling prices is seriously misguided. In that period of time, the UK pound has dropped by 23% relative to the EUR, and quite conceivably it has dropped by a similar percentage against the Japanese Yen. That has to be factored in.

As of 24-Dec-2015, one USD bought 120.32 yen or 0.6693 GBP or 0.9129 EUR.
As of 04-Sep-2019, one USD bought 106.37 yen or 0.8162 GBP or 1.0954 EUR.

So the dollar is up against the pound, but down against the yen.

In Dec 2015, the older GP500 selling for 2948 GBP = 4405 USD = 3229 EUR = 529,977 yen.
In Sep 2019, the newer GP510 listing for 3985 GBP = 4882 USD = 4397 EUR = 468,521 yen.

In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: mwf] #2887006
09/04/19 06:27 PM
09/04/19 06:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 80
VladK Offline
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VladK  Offline
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Posts: 80
I do not need a hearing test, I just probably heard enough inexpensive DP in my life to disagree with "That is the most digital sounding 'piano' sample I've ever heard in my life! It's more like an electric piano sample or fake piano sample... Its not even a matter of opinion, if you can't hear how digitised and flat/poor the sample quality in that 510 is you need a hearing test".

Especially considering that this statement is supported by comparison of GP to N1 + Garritan. What is the point of such comparison? GP can be paired with Garritan as well. Not mentioning that even GP vs (current) N1X would not be a fair comparison considerignt their price points.

If it has decent action - it might be a good contender in 5K street price range.


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner.
Yamaha P-515, P-80, HS8, Sennheiser HD 650
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: mwf] #2887093
09/05/19 02:56 AM
09/05/19 02:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 58
Glasgow, Scotland
C
CoJac Offline
Full Member
CoJac  Offline
Full Member
C

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 58
Glasgow, Scotland
I actually think they have done what they said in the marketing blub. The notes don't seem to die away quickly after the key is pressed which is an improvement. They also said they had made it easier to play softly but I cant help but think they have went too far here. There seems to be parts where the volume drops suddenly and quiet notes are lost. I also think the hamburg grand is the weakest of the sounds. I think it sounds alright in the low end above mf but pretty poor in the mid and upper range when played quietly. I do love the Berlin and vienna sounds though..

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: MacMacMac] #2887102
09/05/19 04:01 AM
09/05/19 04:01 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 373
Denmark
QuasiUnaFantasia Offline
Full Member
QuasiUnaFantasia  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 373
Denmark
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I was inclined to agree with this ... until I checked the facts:
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
---In 2015/12/24, the Casio GP-500 was first sold at £2,948.00 ($3,601 as of 2019/09/04).
---In 2019/09/04, the Casio GP-510 is now sold at £3,895.00 ($4,758 as of 2019/09/04)

Okay, this direct comparison of selling prices is seriously misguided. In that period of time, the UK pound has dropped by 23% relative to the EUR, and quite conceivably it has dropped by a similar percentage against the Japanese Yen. That has to be factored in.

As of 24-Dec-2015, one USD bought 120.32 yen or 0.6693 GBP or 0.9129 EUR.
As of 04-Sep-2019, one USD bought 106.37 yen or 0.8162 GBP or 1.0954 EUR.

So the dollar is up against the pound, but down against the yen.

In Dec 2015, the older GP500 selling for 2948 GBP = 4405 USD = 3229 EUR = 529,977 yen.
In Sep 2019, the newer GP510 listing for 3985 GBP = 4882 USD = 4397 EUR = 468,521 yen.

In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.


Thank you for taking the time to calculate the prices exactly. Your figures also show that Casio are asking 11.6% less for the new GP510 than they did for the old GP500 (Casio, being Japanese, are paid in Yen).

Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
OK, check the piano sound of this video for the Casio GP-510 and please tell us what you think of this piano sound?
---"L. v. Beethoven - Sonata No. 14, Op. 27 no. 2, movement 3 - Kateryna Titova on GP-510 - YouTube" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtp0TJlgnY

Check also:
---Casio UK at https://music.casio.co.uk/premium-grand-hybrid
---Casio Europe at https://www.casio-europe.com/euro/products/musical-instruments/celviano-grand-hybrid/



I listened to the Beethoven in two different ways, both of them through my Yamaha AV-receiver and large loudspeakers. In the first attempt, with the receiver adding its own reverb and equalization, the sound was indistinguishable from an acoustic piano. In the second attempt, without the added reverb and equalization, the GP510 sounded thin and unnatural.

Last edited by QuasiUnaFantasia; 09/05/19 04:07 AM.

Roland FP-30, Roland E-28, Pianoteq 6.5 (Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2), Garritan CFX Lite
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: Learux] #2887108
09/05/19 05:11 AM
09/05/19 05:11 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,252
Moscow, Russia
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Iaroslav Vasiliev Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Iaroslav Vasiliev  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,252
Moscow, Russia

I've just listened to these recordings and I've found no noticable improvements over their old samples which I dislike. Sounds cheap as before.

Originally Posted by Learux
Just in case if you guys need a reminder how great these pianos really are. For the price you pay, it is hard to do better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNRY2qOH5IM

I disagree. In my opinion it sounds badly. Very far from how a real grand sounds.

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: QuasiUnaFantasia] #2887119
09/05/19 06:10 AM
09/05/19 06:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,432
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,432
Raleigh, North Carolina
Yes, it seems the Japanese are swimming against the tide.
The yen is rising, making their merchandise more expensive.
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Quote
In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.
Thank you for taking the time to calculate the prices exactly. Your figures also show that Casio are asking 11.6% less for the new GP510 than they did for the old GP500 (Casio, being Japanese, are paid in Yen).

Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: MacMacMac] #2887216
09/05/19 11:40 AM
09/05/19 11:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 80
VladK Offline
Full Member
VladK  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, it seems the Japanese are swimming against the tide.
The yen is rising, making their merchandise more expensive.
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Quote
In the UK this is an increase of 35%.
In the US this is an increase of 11%.
In Europe this is an increase of 36%.
Thank you for taking the time to calculate the prices exactly. Your figures also show that Casio are asking 11.6% less for the new GP510 than they did for the old GP500 (Casio, being Japanese, are paid in Yen).



Only if they build it in Japan. The prime cost for goods built in China is down (keeping US tariffs aside). Indonesia - not sure.Where are GP built?
But if Yen goes up, then when the company reports their global earnings, they will report less income in Yen, either because they sold less units oversees for the same Yen price (by increasing local prices), or they sold more units oversees but for a reduced Yen price (keeping local prices the same). This is all about what they prefer - keep price margins, or keep market share.


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner.
Yamaha P-515, P-80, HS8, Sennheiser HD 650
Re: Casio Celviano GP500 update? [Re: mwf] #2887896
09/07/19 02:56 PM
09/07/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1
UK
T
ThePianoVault.com Offline
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T

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1
UK
I just wondered what everyone thought to the sound in this Rachmaninov recording on the gp-500... again, it uses the Hamburg Grand sample.
https://youtu.be/cNRY2qOH5IM

I think it's rather good personally. If the gp-510 is in improvement on this, perhaps the Beethoven recording settings were not tweaked to their full potential?

Just a thought folks.

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