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How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
#2886145 09/02/19 05:49 AM
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Hello guys,

I'm thinking about upgrading from Production Voices Gold to VSL Sychron CFX / Concert D 274 / for practicing Piano.
I already possess a ~ 100GB + version of Production Voices Gold,
Is the jump from 30 to 100 velocities that big, and are I'm able to feel it with my RD-2000 Piano?

So far, I really enjoy Production Voices Gold much more than Garritan, as it doesn't put me cotton whool in my ears.

With best regards,

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Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886185 09/02/19 08:17 AM
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I don`t know if this is upgrading, but VSL pianos are definitely different products and very hard to beat. Price is high but there is a reason for that, VSL extract maximum from sample technology. I don`t know if you are able to feel the difference, but playability is top notch and sound is more oriented toward live concert grand and classical music. Good luck.

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886186 09/02/19 08:24 AM
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Take in mind that VSL Steinway D has very distant sound. Besides it sounds awesome. You should check also Garritan CFX

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
MrKaramba #2886221 09/02/19 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MrKaramba
Take in mind that VSL Steinway D has very distant sound. Besides it sounds awesome. You should check also Garritan CFX


I thought I wrote that the Garritan CFX feels like having cotton whool in my ears.

Distant sound? That'd be a problem, as I need to feel like I'm sitting in front of it.

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886247 09/02/19 11:43 AM
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What is "whool"? Do you mean "wool"? If so ... note that cotton is not made of wool, nor is wool made of cotton. Perhaps you have blend of cotton and wool?

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
MacMacMac #2886272 09/02/19 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
What is "whool"? Do you mean "wool"? If so ... note that cotton is not made of wool, nor is wool made of cotton. Perhaps you have blend of cotton and wool?


Thanks. I don't know how to put it in words. It's what the translator gave me smile
I mean, Garritan CFX feels like this http://www.tinnitracks.com/images/hoersturz.jpg
The Garritan CFX is not clear at all to me.
The Production Vocies Grand is.

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886276 09/02/19 01:06 PM
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Cotton wool, as I understand it (and mind you, I'm Danish, so there's that), is a furry ball made out of cotton. A wad of cotton. The kind you might stuff into your ears in order not to hear anything.

Last edited by QuasiUnaFantasia; 09/02/19 01:06 PM.

Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
MrKaramba #2886279 09/02/19 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MrKaramba
Take in mind that VSL Steinway D has very distant sound. Besides it sounds awesome. You should check also Garritan CFX


Agree, because of the big stage it is sampled, even in close mics, you get some sort of reverb feeling, which sounds like artificial. Also close mics on steinway is more sharp and attacky, rather feeling smooth and even.

If you are interested in close sound, I would rather recommend Vsl Cfx, which is somehow better in close mics, it feels more natural. But check if you find it sounding wool smile

Best
Gorkem

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886280 09/02/19 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by MrKaramba
Take in mind that VSL Steinway D has very distant sound. Besides it sounds awesome. You should check also Garritan CFX


I thought I wrote that the Garritan CFX feels like having cotton whool in my ears.

Distant sound? That'd be a problem, as I need to feel like I'm sitting in front of it.


I prefer a close sound, too, at least when I'm playing and recording. So with Garritan CFX, even with ambient mics off, it sounds distant or woolly to you? If so, you may have the same problem using the VSL pianos, which also have close mic sets that can sound reasonably dry and immediate. Nicholas Decrescent's demos tend to be less swathed in room mics and/or reverb than the others (e.g. "Decrescnet Moon" -- https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Pianos_Bundle/Yamaha_CFX#!Demos). I have the limited version of the Synchron Steinway that was recently added to VSL's "SYNCHRON-ized" Starter Edition Vol. 1, and its close mic set is about as dry as I could ever want a piano to be.


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Go-to piano VSTs: Garritan CFX, Galaxy Steinway, Pianoteq 6, VI Labs Ravenscroft

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Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
Syd B #2886303 09/02/19 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Syd B
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by MrKaramba
Take in mind that VSL Steinway D has very distant sound. Besides it sounds awesome. You should check also Garritan CFX


I thought I wrote that the Garritan CFX feels like having cotton whool in my ears.

Distant sound? That'd be a problem, as I need to feel like I'm sitting in front of it.


I prefer a close sound, too, at least when I'm playing and recording. So with Garritan CFX, even with ambient mics off, it sounds distant or woolly to you? If so, you may have the same problem using the VSL pianos, which also have close mic sets that can sound reasonably dry and immediate. Nicholas Decrescent's demos tend to be less swathed in room mics and/or reverb than the others (e.g. "Decrescnet Moon" -- https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Pianos_Bundle/Yamaha_CFX#!Demos). I have the limited version of the Synchron Steinway that was recently added to VSL's "SYNCHRON-ized" Starter Edition Vol. 1, and its close mic set is about as dry as I could ever want a piano to be.


I'm slightly annoyed.
That wooly sound out of the Garritan CFX is easy to describe!
It's not a clear tone, it sounds as someone added an artificial filter between the instrument and you.
How can you conclude that when I like the Production Voices Grand, I dislike the CFX?
I especially like the possible reverberation of the Production Voices, but when practicing I rarely use it.
When I use the pedal, the instrument really shines!
heck no, the CFX of VSL sounds great, unlike the !@#$ Garrittan samples. I really tried anything I could, but I can't like Garritan.
And that is NOT all.

I used weeks to tweak Garrittan, but couldn't tweak it to be worthy of my ears.

If you are a student of a teacher, you can get up to 45% off VSL, and you can refund it, within 30 days no question asked. I got this info today!

Good day.

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 09/02/19 03:09 PM.
Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886320 09/02/19 04:01 PM
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Playability wise there is unfortunately no contest, VSL wins.
I just personally don't like the sound of it at all, it sounds way too cold and harsh to me. So even if the VSL is the better instrument overall, I end up occasionally playing the Concert Grand instead. Also you have to keep in mind that VSL uses a dongle protection, which is something a lot of people don't mind, but some do, and it's important to know this before buying. And you need a powerful CPU to run VSL with more than a couple mics. It's one of the few piano libraries that brings my computer to its knees, so I have to play with only a few mics.
If you describe the Garritan as "wool in your ears" or whatever, and if this is because of the reverb, then you might find that the VSL has a similar issue as it was recorded in a big hall. But with VSL you can sculpt the sound and select close mics and get rid of a great deal of the reverb.
Yes the velocity layers make a difference when playing. But you will need a good controller/digital piano to take advantage of that.

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886340 09/02/19 05:13 PM
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I have both of the VSL concert grands (Steinway D and CFX) and both Production Voices instruments (Steinway D and C7). I use both VSL instruments on a daily basis; I don't use either Production Voices instruments from one month to the next. Why? To me, the VSL is vastly more playable and the sound is much cleaner, clearer and more resonant. When I play the Production Voices, it feels like I'm playing a recording of a piano. When I play the VSL instruments, it feels like I'm playing an actual instrument.

The default mic settings are generally quite distant and on VSL instruments, which I believe is where the impression comes from of a distant sound, but the sound is hugely customisable and you can certainly get a close dry sound if you want one.

In terms of the woolly sound of the Garritan CFX, I sort of know what you mean. It is a very warm, soft sound with some of the Abbey Studios resonance in it and a slightly prominent noise floor. The VSL instruments, while also very resonance, are a lot clearer and somewhat colder and with minimal noise, so I don't think you'll find them woolly.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886358 09/02/19 06:36 PM
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Hey.

That thing with the dongle is a nogo for me.
A good reason to avoid VSL altogether.

I think I stay at Production Voices Grand 2 unless my teacher is saying something bad about it. smile

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2886380 09/02/19 07:56 PM
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I totally agree with you, Karvala.
All VSL synchron requires careful and patient adjustment and setting to get better effect on your headphone or speakers. Forget factory preset always:) make your own user presets from distant to close, dry to wet.
Both of D274 and CFX is great, and has their own characteristics.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2887608 09/06/19 01:15 PM
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I have compared the VSL D274/CFX to ProductionVoices Production Grand.
I prefer much the latter. Even though there is less velocities...
VSL makes me feel less like to what I have when I play the Production Grand.
Also, could it be that it doesn't suit so well to my controller / music style?

Re: How does Production Voices compare against VSL CFX / D274 ?
nicknameTaken #2887742 09/06/19 10:45 PM
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I feel the same way, nicknameTaken. There’s something very much alive about the ProductionVoices Grand.


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