Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Should I to go to college to be a piano teacher?

I really want to learn more about piano/music theory, history, and performance - however, the school that i'd like to go to is not affordable (and please don't preach at me to get scholarships - the college isn't affordable WITH $124,000 worth of scholarship money coming from the school)
The school that we can afford has an okay-ish music program - its not bad but it's not great either.
the thing is: I don't want to waste my time or my parent’s money going to a school with a mediocre music program.
I want to major in music education BUT I want to become a private piano teacher so I don't technically need to be a certified teacher. I realize being certified would give me "a leg up".
I'm just so conflicted about what the right choice is.
Sorry this was such a ramble.

I’m only a student so take this with a grain of salt: my piano teachers, who have been great, have degrees in piano performance not piano education ... so therefore the bulk of their training was in history, theory and actually playing.

Why would you need an education certificate to teach privately? You don’t. You need the musical skills and the ability to teach well. IMHO no one will look for a degree in education.

I believe that it is more useful to look at options, with some better and some unworkable, rather than looking for a single "right choice."

If you head down one path and it isn't working, you can change direction.

It depends on where you live. For example, where I live you certainly don't need a degree to teach piano privately. We even have non-piano majors trying to teach piano student "advanced repertoire," even though the student sounds absolutely abhorrent. Most parents are completely clueless when it comes to choosing a piano teacher.

You might benefit from taking some classes in economics and marketing. That's about it. And use social networking to your advantage.

We have no idea where our OP lives. If it's the US or Canada, teaching piano requires no credential, and having a credential is probably not a "leg up." Indeed, there is no clear academic path to teaching piano in a home studio. That said, any college level studies of music history, theory, or performance would serve our poster in good stead. - regardless of the perceived status of the school.

In fact, the unnamed "mediocre" school is probably an excellent place to study music.

I would consider whether the mediocre school has a teacher you would be happy studying with. Maybe the school doesn't have "name brand" status, but having a good, supportive teacher can make a huge difference at this stage.

Most people are, at your age. (making some assumptions that could be wrong)

I would suggest keeping options open, but making a choice that does so. When my children went to college I recommended they choose a major even if they were unsure; you can change later if needed, but not being in a major keeps you out of some classes you'll need.

Being practical, music education is more likely to produce a living wage with health insurance and retirement than being a piano teacher. Becoming a performing musician is even worse.

Slight diversion here: students in the top quartile of their class tend to do well in careers and life, whether they go to one of those top tier universities or not. Students in the bottom do not - even though the bottom quartile of an ivy league college has better credentials than the top of a lower rated school.

A music ed degree doesn't prepare to teach privately, far from it. It prepares the student to teach in a school. The focus is on learning multiple instruments, classroom management skills, etc. Also, senior year will be mostly dedicated to student teaching in a class room. A performance degree usually will have pedagogy and repertoire classes as part of their curriculum. Of course, having the ed degree is helpful in case you decide later that you want to teach in the public school system.

TimR
I chose the ‘practical’ career approach because of parental pressure and it has been my biggest life regret. I have a great career but I frequently wonder ‘what if...... ‘ As a teenager, I didn’t think it was possible to defy my parents, at least not in our family. I would recommend ‘follow your dream’, you can be practical later. After all, it is easily possible to have more than one career.

A few years ago - okay it was probably 1974 or 1975 - I had an interesting conversation over a few beers with a gentleman who was directing the orchestra at my university and worked in management with the Chicago Symphony. I never did understand exactly what he did, something to do with the business end. His music background was horn performance IIRC.

He said in his opinion if your desire was to become a performing musician, and especially if it was a classical genre, you should not major in music nor go to a conservatory. You should find a town with a university and a symphony, take lessons with the pro, and get a good rounded liberal arts education at the university. You would be hired based on your audition skills, not your degree; but you would end up with a much broader and useful education.

Not sure how this all works in considering a piano performance vs a piano education degree as a pianist doesn’t audition for a symphony slot

.....And This is the first I have heard of anyone consider a general liberal arts degree ‘useful’

You will probably not take advice from a stranger. But I'll try anyways.
I have a Bachelor of Music degree from a very good university. Most days, I really regret having gotten it. Everybody tells me to value it.

I took about eight music history classes, almost all the knowledge of which I have forgotten. The harmony courses were useful but can be taken privately even from the same professors that teach it at university. The composition class can be taken privately. The fact that you have other young musicians available at the school is an advantage, for they can try the orchestral pieces and chamber works you write. Conducting was a fairly useful class. Voice lessons should be taken privately. The optional classes like accounting or business education were useful. Any English class is a good investment.

Now, my Bachelor's degree is almost useless. The best thing I could do to improve its utility is to take computer courses for any organization that hires based on candidates having a music degree. Invariably they want you to do public relations work or post things for them on social media.

If you get an education degree majoring in music, you will likely have steady work eventually. It's just difficult getting the first few teaching positions.

Anyhow, my advice is to marry well and save as much money as possible right now when you are young. These are the two most important things when it comes to succeeding. Buying your first house as soon as possible is more important than any university degree. If you can live at home as long as possible, so much the better. Study tax legislation and how to invest money.

Money is the most important thing to understand, not how Chopin ended up separated from George Sand and all the other interesting tidbits you learn at university. My advice is only take a university degree if you want to teach in the school system. Otherwise, just learn privately and set monthly goals. But as I said, none of this matters as much as the marital decision you make. A married piano teacher has no trouble lowering her rates and getting a full piano studio; her husband pays the mortgage and she can take risks. As soon as she has a full studio and a waiting list, she can charge more. Prospective students only care about your location and price.

Rather than go to university, study exactly how you will marry a wealthier man. Marilyn Monroe summed it up in one movie, Gentlemen prefer Blondes: You can love a rich man just as well as you can a poor one.

My eyes were wide open. I love the wild internet.

Just wanted to say one thing: no rich man will marry a girl who doesn't even have a university degree. And one of the best ways to marry a wealthy family is to attend an elite school.

Wow, just wow on both posts!!

NobleHouse
Agree with Wow! Just curious what advice these posters would give a young man. Let’s see if this would work: ‘get your first job after college where the CEO is a successful female entrepreneur. Wear your best suit and most dazzling smile to work every day, and make sure your paths accidentally cross every day. Volunteer for her committees and lots of overtime work’

How does that work? Could be a movie ‘ blondes prefer tall, dark and handsome’
🙄

I don't know if this is very good advice for an aspiring musician, although it's not an uncommon story.

The point of getting a music performance degree isn't the degree itself, it's the experience you get with the degree (and the contacts are important too). You don't get jobs because of your paper credentials. You get jobs because of your playing/writing/arranging/etc ability. It's all word of mouth. If you kill it on a job, then people will want you back and will recommend you. If you suck on a job, word travels fast.

You can make a comfortable living as a professional musician if you have the abilities and work ethic. Living in the right area is important too.

[/quote]

Just wanted to say one thing: no rich man will marry a girl who doesn't even have a university degree. And one of the best ways to marry a wealthy family is to attend an elite school.

[/quote]

Actually, men try to avoid women with a degree in favour of women who look beautiful, and behave agreeably. That's the sort of studying I'm referring too.

My advice for a young man is more or less what I gave Ryan the pianist a few posts ago: Don't be a piano teacher. But I had a great laugh at your response, dogperson. Men cannot hope to marry up for wealthy women want even wealthier men.

Dan S, there are very few positions for musicians that would afford a comfortable living. Yes, some people with a music degree in piano can expect to succeed at a concert career performing classical music, or as the pianist to an orchestra. But most have to resort to piano teaching, competing against people without a music degree. Those people have their own ways of getting ahead, which I indicated earlier.

All of my original advice is pooh-poohed by the elite because they have their own agenda. I bought into all that nonsense. Now I know if a woman buys a house as soon as possible instead of sinking all her money into university, works as a piano teacher, and finds a loyal guy, she will be far further ahead.

If she goes to university, she'll turn you into a critical woman ready to argue every point and be none the happier for it. She'll wind up with a great debt to pay, which will send many suitors packing and which won't add to her happiness. She'll be tempted to do things she ought not to in a hookup culture gone mad, and pay the emotional and physical cost of that too.

One thing they won't tell you in the university:

The location of your piano studio is VERY important. Choose a wealthy suburb that has yet to see a boom in piano teachers.

My studio is unfortunately surrounded by 475 other piano teachers within a 10-mile radius, plus eight "music schools." Very few teachers have a full studio because there are just so many of us. I'm tempted to pack up and relocate once my current group of good students graduate. One of my colleagues moved 45 miles out of town where very few piano teachers work, and she has a waiting list in 2 months. It's supply and demand.

Not sure if the OP is still reading, but here's an interesting article about pursuing a classical music career: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/strike-with-the-band-wagner

I completely disagree. If you're versatile, there's plenty of work without trying to marry someone to take care of you as you suggested above. You don't need to land that one job to pay the bills. That's simply not the way being a professional musician works in this day and age. We all do multiple things (or one thing incredibly well).

Sorry that this conversation is sidetracking the OP.

YIKES! This thread!!!

All I can say to the OP and anyone else, is that it is a useful life skill to be able to identify what makes you happy and what makes you unhappy. And know that in many cases it is possible to mitigate most of the things that are making you unhappy.

Of course, one can also wallow in bitterness.

For the record, it's not bitterness. It's recognizing the truth. My sister (no university degree) married well to a government worker. His father just passed away and she's looking at another $200,000 coming into their account. Any hobby or thing she wants to buy, she can afford.

Meanwhile I, with my music degree, am looking for new students yet again, borrowing to stay afloat. It's my own path. I own it. But I tell young women there's a better path than mine. University is fun, but my advice is only study there if it's absolutely necessary since it is not cost effective for a musician/piano teacher.

Why don't you take my advice and move to an area where you'll instantly have a waiting list of students?

Location, location, location...

Candy woman
Does the thought of playing gigs make you gag? At one time, my piano teacher played for weddings solo piano and had a small trio for upscale events and restaurants (all classical music). She never was a church pianist, but that is also a possibility even as just a ‘fill in’.

Today's job market changes so fast being flexible and learning how to think does have some advantages.

I watch Jeopardy almost every day (for reasons I won't discuss publically.) It's interesting to see contestants who know the Canadian provinces, the Shakespeare plays, basic science, classical and pop music, geography, (South American river that flows east to west, etc.) can do puzzles quickly, American and European history, movies, pop culture.

I talked to a music teacher who had memorized all the Bach chorales. He didn't know any of that stuff.

Interesting thread on marriage. Don't marry for money - hang around rich folk until you fall in love! Hee, hee.

My experience as a manager is that those with liberal arts degrees are hired as entry level assistants. The degree is just not considered valuable in a business environment

I wanted to post more this morning but had to run out to play a funeral...


To the OP, if teaching piano is something you're passionate about, there's no reason not to go for it. I personally don't enjoy teaching as much as playing, which I why I've always structured my work more around playing than teaching, although I've always kept a few days worth of students.

As far as making a living...There's a full time piano teacher two towns away from me. He graduated from the big J with a performance degree, but he always wanted to teach. He has a full studio, teaching about 40-45 hours a week. I know he has a lot of adults and draws heavily upon a local upscale retirement village. That's nice because he doesn't have to wait until 3pm to start work (something that is a big deal once you get a little older). IIRC, he works six days a week. That's a very comfortable living, and it's something he loves.

WOW! That's a lot of competition. Is it a lot of aspiring film composers and session players teaching to fill in their down time?

That's just a rough estimate. The actual number of piano teachers is probably A LOT more than 475. The great majority of these people are married women who teach 10-15 students "on the side" to make extra income. Studios with 30+ students are rare, or maybe they are just keeping a low profile and not entering students into local festivals and exams.

I consider myself a full-time piano teacher, but I do branch out to do other things as well. I have $$ bills to pay.

Thinking about the music teachers I know today, and the piano teachers I had as a student......all were/are female except my last teacher who was a concert pianist, but taught part time. I remember hearing him perform live on the local radio, as soloist and chamber musician. Music was his full time job and he didn't have a rich wife to support him (he never married or had children - no time for such frivolous stuff).

My first teacher had just started, and I was her first student. Within a year, she went abroad to study at a conservatoire, having won a scholarship. Not at all surprising, considering that she could play anything and everything, including pieces she's never played before (at sight and by ear).

All my other teachers were married and they weren't the main breadwinners in their household even though they taught full-time, and also sometimes accompanied (non-keyboard) students on the side. The ones I know today who don't teach piano (string teachers, and a woodwind teacher) also play in orchestras and chamber groups, and teach part time.......but they aren't their family's main breadwinners either. Nor are the piano teachers. I get the strong impression that they regard the income from their teaching as a supplement to their husbands', who earn more than them. BTW, they all have teaching and/or performance diplomas.

Fortunately, I never thought of music as a career though it was my main interest as a teenager (second was chess, and I never thought of chess as a career either ), and I spent almost all my 'free' time and practice time on it - playing, singing, listening, reading about music, composing music. I say "fortunately" because I have a good living in a non-music career and never wanted for money ever since I got my university degrees (and straight into a job), and still have plenty of time to go travelling the world and climb the highest mountains in every country I visit. And I perform in recitals (thus justifying my hard-earned performance diploma).......but never teach formally, because I don't have any teaching qualification (even though many people have asked me).

Do I personally know any well-off musicians whose only income is from their music (teaching/performing)? No.

AZN: I agree with your advice. It will take some time to be able to do it, though, as it requires moving. I could start teaching on the other side of town, bussing for over an hour there and the same amount back. That way I'd have a base income to work with come moving day one year into the future. It seems daunting at this moment.

I do like performing and try to do so every opportunity, dogperson. Last week, it was a funeral. Sometimes, it's a hospital. But again, it requires more people who need music. I'll keep trying for now.

Ah, an expert-by-proxy. This reminds me of the scene in Groundhog's Day...

Piano Teacher: Not bad... Mr. Connors, you say this is your first lesson?
Phil: Yes, but my father was a piano mover, so...



The OP should consider taking advice from people who have actually been there or done that. Advice from those on the outside looking in is for the birds.

You're looking at the wrong scene.

Incidentally, I'm talking classical musicians playing and teaching classical music, not pop or jazz or easy listening or whatever else.

No doubt they could lower their standards in the way you're thinking of......

Attitudes like this encompass everything that's wrong with classical music. Luckily this kind of elitist thinking isn't prevalent among professionals; mostly just the onlookers.

Playing rubbish stuff one detests isn't elitist. It's akin to being stuck in a rubbishy job one detests.

I doubt very much that a promising conservatoire student who's been winning prizes and scholarships everywhere envisage having to learn and play easy-listening pop/jazz cocktail in a restaurant as background music for diners who think he's part of the furniture, just to eke out a meagre living. As well as playing the same sort of stuff in weddings, funerals, functions etc.

As I said earlier, I was sensible enough to know that I had no talent (and no inclination) to make my living from music, and I never thought of myself as a teacher. I know someone - actually, the husband of a school friend - who went through a well-known conservatory, won several national prizes, graduated and got a few concerts in small venues, barely broke even on them while teaching advanced students on the side, barely making enough to support himself, let alone a young family........and eventually decided to go to medical school and switch to medicine instead. He got married once he graduated, and is now a respected physician in a big teaching hospital.

I've posted some reminiscences about my visit to Poland before. Here's one I haven't written about before: I went into a restaurant in Kraków with friends, and saw a young pianist sitting at a Petrof grand there. Naturally, we went to sit at a table close to the piano, as she was playing Chopin - beautifully. Then I saw that the sheet music on the music rest was not Chopin - it was some pop music arrangement. She wasn't looking at it. A man - who seemed to be the head waiter - walked past and caught her eye, and she nodded. Immediately after she'd finished that nocturne, she switched to playing pop, reading from the music. Her expression changed to one of boredom, of going through the motions.

We stayed there drinking coffee and eating pastries until she stopped for a break, whereupon I spoke to her for a few minutes while she sipped a juice while still seated at the piano. She was a graduate from the Uniwersytet Muzyczny Fryderyka Chopina, and got into the first round of a previous Chopin Competition before being eliminated. Since then, she had a few small successes in competitions, but had to make some sort of living from gigs, including playing in restaurants in tourist locations (like the one we were in), as well as teaching kids. When I asked her whether she liked what she was playing there, she shrugged and said: 'They want me to play non-stop pop here, but I try to put in a bit of Chopin if I can....."

I am not a teacher nor a professional musician but I know from my own experience that there is a need for classical pianists ...., you just need to identify where it is and pursue it. One is for church musicians, even if only for a substitute, as this is something I have occasionally done. I’m just not interested in anything very frequent right now. You need to let it be known that you would be willing to substitute for illnesses and vacations.

There is a market for accompanists for student competitions.

Country clubs and yacht clubs are another resource for paid classical work. If you have access to a cellist or violinist, team up and work out a set you can market.

There is s need for music... you just need to decide if you want to pursue it outside of teaching. Just like teaching, you need to develop a client base.

Some of you won't believe it, but many years ago, being a decent human being was considered a good thing.

Certainly, that vanished from school curriculums with Classical Greek and Latin!

Somewhat OT, but we have a rose-tinted view of the past.

Humans have been warring non-stop through the ages, dating back to the primeval age (or whenever homo erectus became, er, erect), and we're currently living in the most peaceful age there's ever been.

The successful people had always been the powerful and the ruthless, and people looked up to them.......

A liberal arts degree does not make you more of a decent human being than does a degree in another area.... Even many years ago ..

Now that is the truth.

I read what Malkin said about "decent human being" and translated it in my head to "well-rounded human being."

What is interesting is to compare the North American system of university education system with systems around the world with respect to whether higher education is or is not broader than just one's chosen specialty. I believe most North American institutions believe in a broader curriculum even if one is not going after a liberal education degree. As an example, when I was thinking about the university, I gave some serious consideration to crossing over and studying at Cambridge U and reading for the Mathematical Tripos. Unfortunately, since I graduated from school early, I missed all the application deadlines so that was something I couldn't pursue. However, I thought that was an idea system for me. Three years to get a bachelors degree and the only non-mathematical course I would have to take was physics and computer programming, and even there, physics was not examinable. There was nothing else I had to take. No English. No history. No Humanities at all.

Well, because I couldn't go to the real Cambridge, I ended up in a school in a different Cambridge. There, even though I was a mathematics major, only 1/3rd of my courses were in mathematics, and 2/3rds were in subjects outside of my chose area of study, and it was a total of 4 years instead of 3. So over those 4 years, I took about 20x more course outside of my chose area than I would have had I been able to go to read for the Mathematical Tripos at the real Cambridge.

So I see dogperson, Malkin, and NobleHouse weighing in on the subject of liberal education or non-liberal education are from North America. In North America, we can't lose sight of the fact that our standard of what constitutes a liberal education is vastly different than in Europe. Aside from very specialised institutions (perhaps conservatories count in this), even the non-liberal education here would be considered completely liberal and general by many European countries (and other countries around the world - my wife's higher education in Russia was similarly highly specialised). Whether liberal or not, the North American system is designed to produce more well-rounded students than the case of very specialised educational systems.

A bit of humor: my father once advised me to look for (and marry) a rich Jewish widow! (I never found one, alas, but I did find (and marry) a lovely Taiwanese girl with degrees in accounting and economics who has the Midas touch when it comes to investment...)

Now to get serious. My father strongly advised me to get a practical degree so that I would always be able to find employment. Then, he said, I could pursue other degrees that would be less lucrative. At this time, I was under some pressure to go into the ministry. This despite me being vocal about not believing in the religion. That didn't seem to matter to anyone because our preacher didn't believe in it either! For a while I did consider it. I was looking at pursuing Divinity at Moody Bible Institute. That's when I got the above advice from my father. And then I got the same advice from an elder in the church (one of the few I actually respected and still somewhat respect) - whose own son was attending Moody! When my father (a secular humanist) and that particular elder agreed on something, I sat up and took notice!

I wound up getting a BS, MS, and PhD in Engineering. (BS in Electrical Engineering with a minor in Mathematics, MS and PhD in Computer Engineering with minors in Mathematics and Electromagnetics.) These degrees have been lucrative, and allow me to live comfortably. But engineering (to me) is a soulless profession. I get absolutely zero emotional fulfillment from that career.

Enter music teaching. I started teaching piano (under the supervision of my prior teacher) before I went to college. I didn't teach during my four undergraduate years, but I started teaching again in grad school. Now I work as an engineer during the day and teach all evening. I get my economic fulfillment from the day job, and my emotional fulfillment from teaching.

There are alternatives to a music degree. You can pursue diplomas in the areas of piano performance, piano teaching, and music theory from boards such as ABRSM and Trinity. I am currently working towards diplomas in all three areas myself.

So you might want to consider something like this - a boring but lucrative degree and day job alongside a penurious but fulfilling teaching studio. This might not work for everyone, but it works well for me.

I would give a young person the opposite advice. Start by following your dreams, get the education that you are most interested in (if you get in) and try best you can to make it work. If not, you can always find some opportunity to get into a more boring line of work.

But this advice may arise from a very privileged way of thinking. I can certainly understand that people who feel that they may have only one chance for getting a proper education, would reason quite differently.

It is always a good thing. Just that it doesn't usually make you quarter-million-dollar better to offset the cost of the Tuition, never mind living costs.
Depends on the family financial situation, if half a million-dollar is disposable money for the family, it is all good.

But if you are not in that social class, think again.

Dan S, I worked full time while attending a local college to get my bachelor's degree in music ed. For 10 years I worked in a local music store and had anywhere from 10 to 35 students (part time). Unfortunately, a local conservatory underwent some reorganization and suddenly our store was "flooded" with resumes from the conservatory teachers. Anyone with a degree from this conservatory was hired at our store, b/c of the "reputation" of the school. All of these newly hired piano teachers from there, were voice majors who taught "beginner piano." I was stunned to hear one of the teacher's student perform a competition piece and didn't use any of the notated dynamics, but more importantly, didn't use soft pedal as indicated. When i mentioned it, the conservatory teacher said she didn't know what "una corde" meant. Students are starting their piano learning with teachers hired only on the basis of the school they graduated from. It's sickening.

Oh, this happens WAY more frequently than you think. And it doesn't even have to be a reputable conservatory!

Try listening to these poor kids as they plow through an advanced piece. It's murder in the first!

I understand that a non-piano major at a conservatory typically only has to take 2 years of a keyboard skills course to graduate. Is that about right? Doesn't two years of a keyboard skills course just put them about at an intermediate level or advanced intermediate level?

My guitar teacher had to sightread piano music in front of a classroom of people and he was not a piano major. Other people could whiz through and he would play at 1/64th tempo, or whatever, lol. You can always play slower.

Thanks for this TS.

1. It was early. "Well rounded" is a good interpretation of what I was thinking. At least it might have been what I was thinking; as I said, it was early.

B. I never ever said that the two were contingent, although I was aware that there would certainly be those who would claim I did and would object. In fact, I do believe that it is completely possible to be a decent human being without any sort of formal education.

iii. Perhaps I am older or from a culture different than anyone who doubts it, but I remember when human decency (think love, joy, peace, love, joy, peace, gentleness longsuffering, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance) was valued.

IV. At present the chief cultural value seems to be net worth.

5. Right now I am too tired to think about the relationship of net worth to a liberal arts education. Instead, I will lament the decline of civilization and cry into my beer.

I haven't been on PW in awhile until today. Just my humble observation, but there are 6 pages of insightful, interesting, and professional opinions posted. Where is the OP? I couldn't find one reply from the OP. Perhaps the OP is on vacation?

It is true that non-piano majors have to take some sort of keyboarding class, or "class piano," and pass some sight reading test before they can graduate. But that doesn't mean they can teach a Mozart Sonata or Bach Prelude and Fugue. For my degree I needed to have reading proficiency in some European language. Guess how much of that I've retained??? Should I go teach French for a living??

It's a free market in a free country.
If you're considering it, I'm sure you could find an online community to discuss it!

That really stinks. I've worked at 4 stores over the years so I'm no stranger to store BS. I think a lot of teachers would have taken their students and ran, that's what I would have done.

That's funny that they were all voice majors teaching piano. There's a lot of that. I know of three "pianists" locally that brag about going to a big conservatory. One studied voice, one french horn and one bassoon.

My question should not be thought to imply I think an intermediate level pianist should be able to teach beginners. I have no educated opinion on this. My uneducated opinion is that no, an intermediate level pianist should not teach even absolute beginners as they will likely set off on their piano learning on the wrong foot.

Might I suggest, "an intermediate level pianist should only teach after receiving proper instruction and ongoing supervision from a more senior teacher..."

I see your point. It would all depend on the young person's economic situation.

My situation was one of poverty. Divorced parents: mother who would not or could not work, a father who worked as a teacher (which paid barely above the poverty line, but at least had good health insurance). As you said, I had one chance. I did not attend high school, but my test scores were high. My test scores earned me a full scholarship for a science or engineering degree. I took it an ran with it. Later, the company I worked for paid for my graduate work, and actively encouraged me to go for the PhD.

Despite many factors stacked against me, I have succeeded through a combination of hard work and good luck. To borrow religious terminology: I am blessed.

Now I have the luxury to pursue music diplomas in lieu of the music degree that would have been unpractical for me at the time.

In all of this, I must give a shoutout to my piano teacher in that insignificant middle-of-nowhere mountain town I grew up in. She always taught me at a discount, and sometimes I suspect without pay at all. She also put up not only with my inconsistent practice regimen, and with my mother's cockamamie requirements and restrictions on what I was required to play (religious music that made me want to throw up) and forbidden to play (Mozart in particular, that was sinful muisc "as bad as Elvis"). My piano teacher believed in me. She said "I had potential." I wish she could see me know, studying under a retired conservatory professor and diligently practicing my diploma repertoire on a concert grand!

Compare that to my cousin, whose parents were very wealthy and who would inherit all that wealth. He was able to pursue music as a profession, and wound up graduating from the Paris Conservatory. (Lucky dog!) Last I heard, he was playing the fiddle in an orchestra.

Sometimes and in some cultures, it hardly depends on what the young person wants and depends largely on what the young person's parents want. My brofther's chosen field (philosophy) was deemed unworthy and so he acceded to our parent's wishes and is now a rather unfulfilled surgeon. My sister sisters chosen field (school counsellor) was also deemed unworthy, although in that case, I worked both sides and convinced our parents that psychology was close enough to medicine and convinced my sister that psychology was close enough to school counselling that it all worked out in the end and today she's a psych professor specialising in adolescents. I myself was too strange and around the time I built a nuclear accelerator in back of my school's auditorium , my parents gave up trying to slot me into anything, to my great joy.

I'm sure there are many families from non-Western cultures that are still like this, where largely education and career choices are made by parents. A great example is I have a distant relative who earned his PhD in engineering because of his parents, but never worked in the field. He started a restaurant and then an entire host of different restaurants. In many non-Western cultures, escape is only possible after marriage. Before that, you are under your parents' thumbs.

TS
It is not just non-western cultures where parents make the college and degree plan decision. It is often who controls the $$$. Western families are not always egalitarian

Do you want to ask me how I know this? 🙄 been there, done that.

In other words I should go to college for a piano performance degree. Go to college for a "useful" degree. Go to college for piano teaching. Not go to college because it's a waste of time. Move to someplace without any other piano teachers (but close enough to a place were I can work in my "useful" degree). Win a couple piano competitions. Work as an accompanist. Follow my dreams - but not too far because I need a job that pays well. Wait until I'm old to follow my dreams.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY
marry a rich guy so I don't have to worry about making money.

Thanks.

I not in this for money. I want to share my love of music with as many people as possible - be that be teaching, performing, or randomly spewing off facts about Mozart in the middle of a conversation about washing machines.
I understand that I cannot make a living off of JUST teaching piano or JUST performing. I wish I could play piano all day every day and get paid for it - but that's not realistic.
To be honest, after reading all of your comments, I've decided that I mostly likely won't go to college. Unless I go to a prestigious school with AMAZING teachers (which I can't afford even in my wildest dreams) going to college just isn't worth it.
I plan to start a YouTube page and already have an Instagram account where I can share my music.
Maybe I'll get lucky and "get discovered" one day.
but maybe not.
That's fine.
I'm not in this for fame, fortune, or a husband to pay the bills.

I'm going to do what I love.

Candywoman, interesting you said that. I had one piano teacher BA and MA from New England Conservatory of Music and Oberlin. He left to pursue other interests. His mother who owns the studio told me now he works in the computer field with a 6 digit income. My current piano teacher with a master's in music is going back to school next year to get a computer science degree. He is late 20s. The other teacher I had left in his late 20s as well. Both talented performing artists that play multiple instruments. The studio owner told me musicians learn how to make do, I guess her son wanted more than that. Depends on how you want to live your life. I am 59, I have always preferred security of a job and opportunities. My current piano teacher said gigging and teaching will be good part-time as a second job. Study something that you can make a decent living that has ample opportunities. Later you can afford to go back to school, pay cash, and get your music degree and enjoy it.

I won’t belabor this forever but if you want to teach or perform you do need to have really good skills: for your student’s sake if you teach, for your own ability to perform high level music, to further advance your own skills even if you don’t teach others. What plan do you heave for this if you don’t go to college? You can find quality piano teacher’s at many colleges other than Ivy League; go look for them is my advice.

Now I’m done. I will let the ‘find a rich husband’ or ‘do what will pay you $$$ crowd’ take over. I don’t believe either group is right from my perspective..... but I can only write from my own perspective of making $$$ but with personal regrets for the heart path I didn’t try. Dreams vs pragmatism: an argument as old as the hills.

Just have a plan for whatever you choose. And best wishes!

I know exactly what you mean. What I tried to exaggerate is that most parents are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS when it comes to hiring a piano teacher. I have gotten Transfer Wrecks from non-majors posing as piano teachers. The damage is done.

I'm proficient on several instruments and I do teach music lessons other than piano. But I'm always upfront about my limitations, and I have voluntarily terminated lessons with students who have gone beyond what I had to offer.

AZN
Since I always have been fortunate to have had highly qualified teachers, I have been shocked that are so many ‘teachers’ that think there is really nothing needed to teach piano except throwing out a shingle. Advanced training? ‘Hogwash’ is the attitude. Just skip college and start teaching. Trained in a different instrument? No big deal. Just do it anyway.

IMHO, it shows deep disrespect to the music, the student and the skill of teaching. I guess it won’t change as long as there are students and parents that don’t check.... but the harm is done. I’m surprised the mtna doesn’t at least have an educational advertising campaign. Not only might it improve the quality but possibly teachers’ pay scales if parents become educated.

I know that what I'm going to say is utterly foreign to most others here, but it matters - and it mattered to me, because it meant that I always had teachers who knew how to teach (not necessary the same as 'good' teachers, as that can be subjective and dependent on student-teacher compatibility). It wasn't something that I ever thought of until I joined PW and read posts here and in ABF, which left me scratching my head and wondering: how is this kind of thing possible?

Everyone I knew who had pianos lessons (from the time when I was a child student in my home country onwards, right up to the present day) had been properly taught. Everyone took for granted that music teachers - like school teachers - had to be qualified, and expected nothing less than proper teaching. (And everyone did exams, just as all teachers had to go through exams themselves to be qualified).

If there's no culture of learning a (classical) musical instrument as an education (as opposed to 'pastime', hobby, fun, showbiz thing etc), you get no widespread expectation that a teacher has to be properly qualified in teaching that instrument, and therefore it becomes a crapshoot and a free-for-all. Self-taught 'pianists' who 'learnt' to play with YT Synthesia can put up signs advertising themselves as teachers, and no-one is the wiser, least of all prospective students. The number of YT videos from such people purporting to "teach" piano is legion......

Whereas if learning piano (or violin etc) is regarded generally as an education, and there is something akin to a 'national syllabus' - and a grade system with exams - that all qualified teachers follow, and which even the general public know of, no one who fancies himself/herself as a teacher yet can barely play Minuet in G properly will find employment. People who want to learn for fun will just teach themselves from YT videos - they don't want any structure, they can't be bothered with the basics of piano playing and fundamental skills, they just want to play what they want to play, ergo, they don't need a teacher. (Which was what I did with the guitar, and why I never had a guitar teacher). Those who are serious will have no difficulty finding teachers who actually know how to teach - and they know that their teachers will be properly qualified. (Apropos of which, what I read of one or two teachers' teaching methods here leave me wondering how their students will fare, but let's leave that aside for the present).

Of course, there is always that X factor of compatibility (crucial with adult students, as I've seen from posts in PW) but at least, if the student-teacher relationship doesn't work out and the student goes to someone else, he/she will have the basic skills that should mean that the new teacher can just pick up where the previous one left off, with no gaping holes the size of the Grand Canyon in that student's skill & knowledge set.

I've mentioned before - lots of times - about how I had two teachers in my home country (teaching in a mixture of English and my native language), followed by two teachers in the UK (teaching entirely in English, of course), yet my piano education progressed entirely seamlessly all the way. All I needed to do was to adapt to the teaching 'styles' and personalities of my new teachers, but what they taught was a natural progression following what I learnt with my previous one. And I had no gaping holes - in fact, no holes at all - in my skills and knowledge whenever I moved to a new teacher. And that was also the case for all my fellow students - and is the case now when I chat to ex-students, adult re-starters etc about what they know and have learnt, or are currently learning.

And that's simply because we have something close to a national system of instrumental teaching (and syllabus) here - and the same in my home country -, which all teachers follow. And which is so ubiquitous that everyone knows about it, even if all they know about music is the latest boy band's hits.

To the OP, I'd say, do yourself - and your prospective students - a favor, and learn as much about piano playing and teaching as possible, before setting yourself up as a teacher. If you love music and the piano, you want to make sure that your students develop the same love (and never lose it), by giving them all the necessary skills to play well - and able to keep learning and playing well after they leave you.......

Dogperson, I agree. As a student looking for a teacher 6 years ago (age of 54) I had played as a child and did not know what I didn't know. I would not have been able to assess the skills of a teacher. I requested a teacher with a degree in piano performance. The owner informed me she only hires degreed pianist who perform. I feel I have received an excellent education. Since local piano schools do not have to undergo an accreditation process such as colleges, the buyer of service has to be responsible to determine some type of qualifications.

Well written and right on point, imo.

Amen to your points!

Some parents are determined to find poor instruction for their kids and go for the cheapest teacher. They start on an electric keyboard with 51 notes and no pedal. Secretly, they want this to all end. They do things to sabotage their kids' instruction.

Last year I had a parent desire to pay me the third week of the month. When I said no, she called me rigid and left the studio. Then she called asking for the name of one of our illustrious piano teachers who mostly takes Asian kids playing on grand pianos. I gave it handily, excited to see if they had a hope of passing the audition or paying him on time for that matter. They never got that far. Four months later, she called and asked me to take them back. I said yes, but her kids must have said no, because that was the end of that. They had a great thing going, but turned it into mashed potatoes.

Of course, Candywoman, information will not change some parents (nor all adult students. either) but I prefer to think many parents are well-intentioned but lack the education about what constitutes good music training and the skills needed to be a good teacher. Even if it only enlightens a few.... it would be an improvement.

This parent sounds clueless. Sabotage would at least require some degree of understanding and ability to plan.

Well, I work for many parents who--while not really intentionally sabotaging their children's piano progress--are definitely not doing anything to help, either. Piano is just another activity after school, and not much attention is paid at home. I also work for several talented students whose parents have other aspirations for them, so they choose to emphasize activities OTHER than piano.

Barely, but a lot depends on whether or not those two years were their first exposure to playing keyboard. Besides, IMO, intermediate level pianists shouldn't be teaching, even 'beginner piano.' They've either been taking lessons for years and haven't advanced much, or they've just started and haven't had time to become really familiar with and expert at the skill.

Name-Brand schools are overrated - especially if your dream is to open a private studio. The most famous (and Richest!) private teacher in the Southern California area got his muisc degrees in performance at a modest state school.