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clicking Kawai
#2885193 08/30/19 12:25 PM
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The Kawai digital pianos - especially the cn series (cn25, cn27, cn35, cn37) but also some reports on the ca series - have been seemingly plagued with mechanical klicking sounds when the key is released.

reports found here https://www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/81qj7u/does_anyone_own_a_kawai_cn37_digital_piano_and/

and a video examples here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7f5CDIh6Sk&feature=youtu.be]

and here
[url=https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipM4RLEVJJPcQvvpjTWLE-8d-bI8DzvZa3uni_2cI5Hsa-rXI9Vv6Vami5-WIjTkGQ?key=Q2Q2UFhVMHhTTU10VzE0QkkzQVkweXVOWUo3Ujd3]

I will admit, that in both videos you will have to know what you're listening for, to understand what is meant by clicking.
Having personally checked two different kawai cn37 pianos in different showrooms, I found, that one of them has a very severe case of this clicking, while the other one does not.

As the cn37 and the coming up cn29/37 seem like fantastic e pianos, other than this issue: I am sure everyone thinking about buying one of these pianos would be grateful, if the people who own such a piano would give a quick response regarding the clicking sound on their personal device. Does it exist? Is it bothering you?

best wishes

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Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885219 08/30/19 01:33 PM
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The ES8 I rent has no noises or issues with the action - seems rock solid.
In comparison the CLP645 I had for a while seemed quite noisy in comparison.
If I were shopping for a new DP I would probably go for a Kawai again.

Last edited by Morten Olsson; 08/30/19 01:33 PM.
Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885223 08/30/19 01:41 PM
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No issue with my CA58, but who knows if i really really really focus on it i may hear something ..

Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885241 08/30/19 02:20 PM
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I have owned the Kawai ES7, ES8, CA68, and now the MP11SE and have never noticed any "clicking" of keys.


Don

Casio PX-S1000, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used), Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
Re: clicking Kawai
Morten Olsson #2885256 08/30/19 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
The ES8 I rent has no noises or issues with the action - seems rock solid.
In comparison the CLP645 I had for a while seemed quite noisy in comparison.
If I were shopping for a new DP I would probably go for a Kawai again.

Just curious, how long have you been with her?


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885263 08/30/19 03:10 PM
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I owned CA78 for a while.Some of the keys between C4 and C5 was clicking loudly with different key combinations.
When you play F4 sharp and A4 together, you could hear a loud click and when you make a trill with E4 and F4 those two keys started clicking after a while.Also G4 sharp was rattling loudly.Strangely rest of the keys were very silent and felt like they will last forever.

Last edited by AYS; 08/30/19 03:11 PM.
Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885320 08/30/19 05:53 PM
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I had a little issue with the RH-III action on an ES8 the other day at the local Kawai store. I was hitting staccatos at medium volume and noticed that following the sound of the notes, the key bounced a few times before coming to rest, making noticeable thumping noise, seemingly coming from under the keys. At first I thought that was something that could be adjusted, but since the store had those plastic/wood/metal working models to demonstrate the actions, I immediately tried the staccatos on the RH-III action model. Sure enough the thumping bounces were exactly the same as those on the ES8 and I could watch the metal "fake hammer" bouncing on its neoprene rest making those light but noticeable thumps. I was trying a short series of staccatos and couldn't help but heard the thumps chasing my notes that certainly could drive me crazy at night. By comparison, I tried the same on the other keyboards (CS11 and CA58) and their wooden key action models (Grand Feel II and Grand Feel Compact) and there was almost no bounces. Of course there was some bouncing but it was dampened out immediately.

I like Kawai in many aspects and came real close to buying the ES8, which fits my needs in many ways, but just couldn't live with the racing thumps. Too bad Kawai decided to do nothing to dampen bouncing of the fake hammers and just let the bounces die out on the neoprene rest. At least, a thick layer of felt (instead of the 3 mm layer of neoprene) could do a better job, if Kawai is listening.

Re: clicking Kawai
EVC2017 #2885378 08/31/19 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
The ES8 I rent has no noises or issues with the action - seems rock solid.
In comparison the CLP645 I had for a while seemed quite noisy in comparison.
If I were shopping for a new DP I would probably go for a Kawai again.

Just curious, how long have you been with her?


The ES8 ? Months not years. I’ll be returning it to the dealer soon as I was lucky to pick up a reasonably price acoustic Yamaha - haven’t played the digital since the Yamaha was delivered.

Re: clicking Kawai
Morten Olsson #2885382 08/31/19 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
The ES8 I rent has no noises or issues with the action - seems rock solid.
In comparison the CLP645 I had for a while seemed quite noisy in comparison.
If I were shopping for a new DP I would probably go for a Kawai again.

Just curious, how long have you been with her?


The ES8 ? Months not years. I’ll be returning it to the dealer soon as I was lucky to pick up a reasonably price acoustic Yamaha - haven’t played the digital since the Yamaha was delivered.


Which model of Yamaha acoustic suited you so that you could forget about digitals ? Thanks!


www.youtube.com/channel/UC073i6RnxK4NcnoFp1jYh7Q The place where I ocasionally post my amateur recordings smile
Criticism is welcomed since it helps improving and going forward!

Yamaha P-105 -> Roland HP-605 -> Roland LX708
Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885392 08/31/19 05:31 AM
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I have to say I have a CN37 from about 2 months and after a month from the purchase I experienced some little noises too in the keys I use more (the 3 central octaves). Not the "thump" from the weights (that is normal), but a little click when you release a key that was fully depressed. It is as if there was some grease applied to the bottom of the button, so, when you release the key, you feel this light "sticky" noise. In this period of the year (very hot) where I live the air can become very humid, so I think that could be a cause. I would be very curious to know exactly what generates this sticky noise and what will happen in the winter season... Will it get worse or will it disappear? What happens to this noise if I don't play the DP for a week or more? Until now I'm playing it almost every day, so I don't know.

I would also be curious to have more info from users who have owned and played on Kawai RH3 mechanics for many years. And what about the competitors plastic keyboards? They suffer from similar noises?

Anyway I almost always use headphones, so I'm not much bothered by this. It might be a little annoying only if I play without headphones and with a very low volume from the internal speakers.

Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885393 08/31/19 05:34 AM
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Its an old Yamaha U1. To be honest I think I’d prefer most halfway decent acoustics over a digital - but that’s just me and I’m not having a go at digitals - they are great tools and it’s incredible the quality they deliver even at the entry level.

Re: clicking Kawai
Morten Olsson #2885394 08/31/19 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Its an old Yamaha U1. To be honest I think I’d prefer most halfway decent acoustics over a digital - but that’s just me and I’m not having a go at digitals - they are great tools and it’s incredible the quality they deliver even at the entry level.

Whatever keeps you at the keyboard and practicing/playing is a good thing, even if it's a U1! thumb


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885396 08/31/19 05:45 AM
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“Even” ? smile smile

Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885399 08/31/19 05:51 AM
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To me even a basic mechanical wristwatch is so much better than a digital one with dozens of (often never used) functions. That little click-clack mechanical feeling is so magical and beautiful... I think that's similar to acoustic vs digital piano. smile

Re: clicking Kawai
Morten Olsson #2885402 08/31/19 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
“Even” ? smile smile

oopsies! whome


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: clicking Kawai
magicpiano #2885403 08/31/19 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
To me even a basic mechanical wristwatch is so much better than a digital one with dozens of (often never used) functions. That little click-clack mechanical feeling is so magical and beautiful... I think that's similar to acoustic vs digital piano. smile

I have a mechanical watch which costs 50x all my digital watches taken together have cost me. I know someone who collects mechanical watches. Thank goodness I did not succumb (fully) to this as I would be a lot poorer otherwise!

BTW, just as the Chinese entered into the piano building game, the Chinese have been chasing down the Swiss in watchmaking. It won't do for the real horologists, but the Chinese have cloned many of the Swiss complications in versions designed for smaller pocketbooks! grin



[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885404 08/31/19 05:58 AM
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That is certainly one of the things that draws me to it - it really is a mechanical wonder that something with all those moving parts can be made to withstand years of use.
Next up on my wishlist is a nice mechanical metronome to put on top smile
And a tuning ! wink

Re: clicking Kawai
Morten Olsson #2885405 08/31/19 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Next up on my wishlist is a nice mechanical metronome to put on top smile

And to replace those two monitors on either side with nice mechanical monitors!

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: clicking Kawai
Morten Olsson #2885414 08/31/19 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
That is certainly one of the things that draws me to it - it really is a mechanical wonder that something with all those moving parts can be made to withstand years of use.
Next up on my wishlist is a nice mechanical metronome to put on top smile
And a tuning ! wink


Wittier is probably the most famous maker of mechanical metronomes:

https://wittner-gmbh.de/metronome_taktell_e.html

I have a big wooden cased Wittner on top of my U2. The Taktells are also cool.

There is something attractive and pleasant about mechanical devices that work well. I’m leaning towards another purely acoustic piano at the end of my rental period. Nothing with firmware! I’ve spent about five hours on the phone with support trying to get a WiFi extender system running and I’m down to one node instead of five! So annoying.

Last edited by LarryK; 08/31/19 06:43 AM.
Re: clicking Kawai
spacewhale #2885427 08/31/19 07:25 AM
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If you haven’t tried it consider googles wifi mesh - very very easy to setup and very stable.
I’ll be getting a Wittner metronome - like the look of those and my dad used to have one.

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