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Brodmann or Palatino?
#2883144 08/24/19 11:34 PM
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Hello

Me and my family are looking for an acoustic piano. I have already posted a question on this forum and received a lot of valuable feedback and advice that made me reconsider the pianos we've initially planned to purchase. I am starting a new thread, because I have to make a decision within next 3 days...hoping to hear from you before then.

Here are our 2 choices, they are not the best brands but both pianos are in great condition, with solid sound, that have been checked by a professional. He leans towards Palatino, because of the grand action.

Brodmann CE118 NEW $4K
Palatino Baby Grand 2010 $5K

Thoughts? Which one should we buy?

Many thanks
Janette

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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883154 08/25/19 12:23 AM
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Not knowing which model or size, would personally lean towards Palatino grand.
Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 08/25/19 12:24 AM.

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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883160 08/25/19 12:41 AM
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Janette, you do not have to make a decision in three days. That is the oldest sales pressure technique in the book. Whatever seller told you that, go with the other one... that is, if you like both pianos equally.

It is hard to advise you, with so little known. As you say, they are not top marques, and it has been awhile since I looked at them or looked up their parts list. The dealer from whom I bought my piano had a small Palatino grand on the floor for a short time. It was very shiny, but did not sound very good; perhaps a good piano technician could have gotten a better sound and touch out of it. They didn't get any more, and that's about all I know.

Broadmann enjoyed some buzz when they first came out five or ten years ago. The parts list looked pretty good. We had a letter from a young fellow in the Brittish Isles who bought one of their grands for a very low price, and loved it. When I saw some, they did not look very well put together, as far as fit and finish went. Every part creaked or squeaked--- that can get old mighty fast, but is probably fixable. The touch was ok. The sound was overpoweringly loud in the small practice rooms (previously offices) where they had been set up. It was hard to get enough of a sense of how they really could sound, to give much of a report.

I am going to wish you good luck, and suggest that you shop a little longer and try to learn a little more as you go along. I know that this is not easy to do, perhaps especially so when you are shopping on a budget and need to make your music dollar go as far as possible. There is nothing wrong with that. If you had an unlimited budget, you would still face the problem of getting the piano which is right for you. I'm going to say to you what I hate to say, and that is that with the budget you have, you could get a much nicer and better-made digital piano. http://sweetwater.com could be worth a look; they are very helpful and can tell you a lot of things--- they seem never to get tired of it.

All of the makers have web sites where you can learn some things. Piano techs sometimes know about people who want to sell a used piano, and that is the market segment which has the most to offer you in terms of value for your dollar, and some true information about a piano's history. If you don't know a piano technician, try http://ptg.org and use their look-up feature to find some in your area.


Clef

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883164 08/25/19 01:43 AM
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Janette C - the Palatino's were OEMed from the Hailun factory for a while. You certainly could not get today a Hailun at anywhere close that price today.


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Campanella12 #2883187 08/25/19 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Campanella12
Janette C - the Palatino's were OEMed from the Hailun factory for a while. You certainly could not get today a Hailun at anywhere close that price today.


Wasn't it only the model 178 Hailun that was relabeled as a Palatino?


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883204 08/25/19 07:58 AM
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Hi Jeff
Thank you for the resources and ideas. I should clarify that the 3 days deadline is my idea, we are working with a great piano shop owner who doesn't put any pressure on us and even is willing to send a piano to our home for a trial. My kids are going back to school and also the music school, so I'd like to buy before then. Also we've been looking for a month now so I feel it is time to make a decision:)

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883225 08/25/19 08:56 AM
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Hello Norbert

Here is the Palatino model number

PGD-50-BKG No: 1047

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883235 08/25/19 09:25 AM
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I can't comment on either brand, but when I was shopping it was between a kawai upright and a kawai baby grand which were of comparable sizes to the pianos you are looking at. I thought the upright had better sound, but the grand had a slightly different feel because it is a grand action. In my case I play with the lid closed and a cover on to reduce the volume level, so the grand was the best choice on both counts. If volume level is not an issue for you, you might find that the upright offers you better sound. Another issue to be aware of is that the music rest on an upright piano puts the music much closer to your hands so it's easier to read the music. A grand puts the music on top of the piano, so it's a little more head bobbing. Children seem to adapt to anything, so it's probably less of an issue for them than it has been for me. Finally, I sometimes wish I had the extra space the upright would offer, but that's dependent on how much space you have.


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883246 08/25/19 09:44 AM
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For reference, here are the brand profiles and (new) pricing information for these models,
https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/brodmann/
https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/palatino/

And more information about pricing here:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/acoustic-pianos-introduction-to-brand-profiles-models-prices/

Both these pianos are very well-priced. Both these pianos are the entry-level model of a vertical and grand piano for their respective makers.
Is this going to be for lessons for beginners, or students who have been at it a few years?
Do you plan on keeping it for a little while and then upgrading as their skills and interest progresses, or is this going to be a "forever" piano?

Although there is a physics/action advantage to a grand piano, it has been my experience that 48"+ vertical pianos tend to sound better than 5' and smaller grand pianos, with smoother transitions between registers and a better sounding bass section. Having said that, I can point to many quality vertical pianos that have actions that play better than lower quality small grands, and a few small grand pianos that sound fairly decent from top, most of the way, to the bottom.

The grand piano has the advantage of being most of the way through the depreciation curve, though it's 10 years old.
The vertical piano has the advantage of being sold with a manufacturer warranty (if it's new and being sold by an authorized dealer), which the other piano won't have. Manufacturer warranties are more desirable than store warranties, because you have an additional layer of protection.

When you mean, "checked by a professional", do you mean inspected by an independent technician who gave both a thumbs-up, or played by a pianist/teacher who thought they both sounded fine and preferred the grand action?


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883283 08/25/19 11:42 AM
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terminaldegree - thank you for taking the time to respond and the info you've provided.

The piano is for my children. I have 6 yo who started playing a year ago (music school in France where we lived for the last two years) He was studying under a French and Russian teachers, both teachers advised that he continues with piano education, they felt the potential was there. My son also likes to play which is good. His little sister who is 4 also also seems interested but it is too early to tell. I don't know if she wants to learn or just tries to imitate her brother. She will start with music school this year, so we will see. Since piano requires daily practice I've started to learn also so I can help my son (while in France we were practicing 15min-30min daily as per his teachers recommendations) and I love the piano, so it is fun for both of us.

The professional I mentioned it a technician who also plays. We trust him. He says that we can safely go with either of the pianos, he leans towards Palatino just because of the grand action and he thinks that it will last longer before we need to upgrade. I realize neither Palatino nor Brodmann are great brands, but I feel that both of the pianos are offered at a good price, sound well, and are in a good condition. They both are perfectly fine for our children. If my son progresses and there is a need for an upgrade in the future we will certainly do so, but for now he doesn't need anything more expensive I feel. We were also looking at new Pearl River and used Yamaha P22, but narrowed our search down to the Brodmann upright or Palatino baby grand. As you can tell we are new to the piano world. It has been a long month of an intensive search and research filled with a lot of learning and bit of frustration. The school year is around the corner and I'd just like to have a piano in our house so we can go back to our practice:)

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883299 08/25/19 12:30 PM
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It sounds like you've done your homework, and have a good plan then.
They're certainly well-priced, so that will save you some $$$ if they stick with it and you decide to upgrade later on.


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883301 08/25/19 12:35 PM
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Given the supplied info, if you already narrowed down your choices to those two instruments, I would for sure choose the 5' Palatino grand. It should indeed be fine and a source of joy and inspiration for your small kids.

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883327 08/25/19 01:48 PM
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terminaldegree - thank you, which one would you choose the Palatino or the Brodmann?

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883331 08/25/19 01:52 PM
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Bosendorff - thank you, I am leaning toward the Palatino but simply because it is a grand .... I just want to make a wise decision which is hard with my very limited knowledge about pianos.

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883335 08/25/19 02:09 PM
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Have never played both back to back. Can’t remember that I’ve even seen a 5’0” Palatino before. Only the 5’9”, which is from a different series. I gave you the most accurate and honest information I could...which hopefully you can use to make the best decision for your situation.


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883376 08/25/19 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Janette C
Bosendorff - thank you, I am leaning toward the Palatino but simply because it is a grand .... I just want to make a wise decision which is hard with my very limited knowledge about pianos.

Hi there,

I think it's reasonable to say that indeed the grand should be the best choice in your situation. Not only its shape can be more inspiring for your kids, but also it's a grand action so better repetition (when the pianist is playing the same note quickly twice or more - a little practice difficulty that will gradually happen in lessons at some point) and also IMHO easier to maintain (for tunings and regulation every now and then). But regardless of what you decide, make sure to post pics here about your new purchase ! Take care.

Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883682 08/26/19 02:45 PM
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Perhaps you should consider renting a suitable upright for the near term, and use the time you gain to find a more ideal grand.

Right now, in my area, there are a lot of used pianos on the market. I think many people try to sell them just before school starts in the hopes that the seasonal onset of piano lessons will drive demand, and consequently, prices, higher. But, after the dust settles, and most piano students have secured their instruments, the remaining pianos may become more reasonably priced, providing you a better opportunity to get more for your money. If you don't mind waiting a season, my impression is that early to mid summer is the optimal time to buy, as, that is the season when most home moving takes place, and many pianos are put on the market rather than moved with their owners.

So, renting a piano until you find the one you can't pass up, even if it is next summer, may be worth considering.


Ralph

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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2883748 08/26/19 05:34 PM
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Get the Palantino since it’s what your trusty piano tech advises and Norbert seems to favor. I myself prefer the feel and action of a grand but that’s a very individual thing. Until 2009, I only played uprights. The biggest predictor of on-going success with your children’s musical development is hours spent practicing over the type of piano on which that student practices. As long as your children have a reliable, well tuned, well regulated piano that they enjoy playing and the sound of their practice pleases your ear too, your children can do as well with learning piano as they want. Just my $.02 worth.


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2884895 08/29/19 02:45 PM
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The Palatino.

Made in Shanghai, Renner hammers, Roslau strings, solid soundboard, cast plate...The usual suspects.


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Re: Brodmann or Palatino?
Janette C #2884900 08/29/19 02:51 PM
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Hey Jolly— nice to see ya here occasionally.

Am fairly certain that feature set only applies to their higher series, which is the 5’9” size and largest vertical model.


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