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Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency #2882810
08/23/19 04:44 PM
08/23/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
M
MarkF786 Offline OP
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MarkF786  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
I've tried using my LX708 with an iPad Pro and various synth apps and the Bluetooth MIDI latency is horrendous (maybe as much as 1 second).

Has anyone else noticed this? Is the problem with the LX708, IOS, or just Bluetooth MIDI?

Due to the placement of the USB jacks on the piano, it's quite cumbersome to use a MIDI cable, and I'd have to connect & disconnect the MIDI cables during every session. I really wish Roland had put MIDI and audio jacks on the back of the piano (or put them both in the front and back).

Thanks.

Mark

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Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2882811
08/23/19 05:07 PM
08/23/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,292
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,292
Originally Posted by MarkF786
I've tried using my LX708 with an iPad Pro and various synth apps and the Bluetooth MIDI latency is horrendous (maybe as much as 1 second).

Has anyone else noticed this? Is the problem with the LX708, IOS, or just Bluetooth MIDI?

Due to the placement of the USB jacks on the piano, it's quite cumbersome to use a MIDI cable, and I'd have to connect & disconnect the MIDI cables during every session. I really wish Roland had put MIDI and audio jacks on the back of the piano (or put them both in the front and back).

Thanks.

Mark

Something is wrong then. I used Bluetooth with my iPad Pro connecting to an LX708 in the piano showroom and it was fast. Maybe you should call Roland Technical Support and open a service ticket? Suggest making a recording of the problem being demonstrated, maybe with your cellphone. If you demonstrate the issue to them, they might send a technician over to take a look.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
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Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2882825
08/23/19 05:41 PM
08/23/19 05:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 359
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline
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Morten Olsson  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 359
Danmark
Arne you sure the latency is in the Bluetooth midi connection ? How are you getting audio from the iPad ?

Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2882828
08/23/19 05:53 PM
08/23/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
M
MarkF786 Offline OP
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MarkF786  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
Audio from iPad to piano is also Bluetooth.

I had really hoped this would be fairly "plug & play", with MIDI and audio being over Bluetooth rather than multiple cables.

Though I've worked in IT for 30+ years, and have been working with MIDI and synths for 35+ years, I've grown a bit impatient with this sort of thing, expecting it to just work, rather than it becoming a research project and hours of troubleshooting. That's why I've avoided a computer-based keyboard solution for many years, compared to just an all-in-one solution (piano, ROMpler, synth, etc). Troubleshooting tech problems totally kills any musical inspiration.

In reality, the more technology advances, the more difficult it becomes; the whole "plug & play" idea is great when it actually works - then it becomes a nightmare to troubleshoot when it does work because the mechanisms to troubleshoot are often removed (for example, logs).

Thanks.

Mark

Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2882829
08/23/19 05:55 PM
08/23/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,292
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,292
Yeah, sounds like it is time to call Roland.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2882881
08/23/19 09:44 PM
08/23/19 09:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 9
L
Luiz Filho Offline
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Luiz Filho  Offline
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L

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 9
Well, your problem it is not Bluetooth MIDI, it is the Bluetooth Audio, that is not made to transmit realtime audio. If you plug some head phones in your iPad, I bet everything will work great.

Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: Luiz Filho] #2882902
08/23/19 11:43 PM
08/23/19 11:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 551
Greater Chicago Metro Area
E
EPW Offline
500 Post Club Member
EPW  Offline
500 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 551
Greater Chicago Metro Area
Originally Posted by Luiz Filho
Well, your problem it is not Bluetooth MIDI, it is the Bluetooth Audio, that is not made to transmit realtime audio. If you plug some head phones in your iPad, I bet everything will work great.


I was thinking the same thing.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2882909
08/24/19 01:13 AM
08/24/19 01:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,257
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,257
Raleigh, North Carolina
Make that three of us. Bluetooth is laggy.

Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2883370
08/25/19 03:53 PM
08/25/19 03:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,426
Twin Cities
T
TonyB Online content
1000 Post Club Member
TonyB  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,426
Twin Cities
Originally Posted by MarkF786
Audio from iPad to piano is also Bluetooth.

I had really hoped this would be fairly "plug & play", with MIDI and audio being over Bluetooth rather than multiple cables.

Though I've worked in IT for 30+ years, and have been working with MIDI and synths for 35+ years, I've grown a bit impatient with this sort of thing, expecting it to just work, rather than it becoming a research project and hours of troubleshooting. That's why I've avoided a computer-based keyboard solution for many years, compared to just an all-in-one solution (piano, ROMpler, synth, etc). Troubleshooting tech problems totally kills any musical inspiration.

In reality, the more technology advances, the more difficult it becomes; the whole "plug & play" idea is great when it actually works - then it becomes a nightmare to troubleshoot when it does work because the mechanisms to troubleshoot are often removed (for example, logs).

Thanks.

Mark


Sorry for your trouble, though I do agree that you should look at the audio aspect. I have a little Bluetooth transmitter and a set of Bluetooth headphones that use the low latency Bluetooth "standard". This is much better than standard Bluetooth, but you can still sense a bit of lag.

In a sense, I am glad to hear another tech worker say what you said in your post. Having been a software engineer for more than 20 years, I just don't enjoy troubleshooting stuff at home. It simply sucks the fun out of music making.

What I do is keep the piano part all in the hardware of my DP and use my computer for various courses, just watching the videos and displaying the PDFs. I have a small mixer that I run the output of my computer into, along with a CD player and whatever else I may want at the moment, and that output goes into the audio inputs on my DP so I can hear it all through my headphones connected to my DP. The mixer is an ART PowerMix III that just has three stereo inputs. It has a very small form factor, is quite inexpensive, and easy to use. This makes for a very simple setup that always works, never gives me any trouble, and does exactly what I need done and no more.

My computer is a Microsoft Surface Pro 4 with 256 GB internal SSD and a 512 GB MicroSD card. The Surface sits on the music stand of my piano and easily runs all my courses just fine.

If it isn't absolutely necessary to run Bluetooth, maybe consider something along these lines, substituting your iPad for the Surface of course. smile

Tony

Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: TonyB] #2883433
08/25/19 06:26 PM
08/25/19 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,432
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Gombessa Offline
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Gombessa  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,432
Originally Posted by TonyB
I have a little Bluetooth transmitter and a set of Bluetooth headphones that use the low latency Bluetooth "standard". This is much better than standard Bluetooth, but you can still sense a bit of lag.


Gotta agree with this. BLE used for BT-MIDI is still laggy, thigh it's literally an order of magnitude better than standard BT audio. Some people can tolerate it, but it adds an extra 20-30ms to your audio chain, which is quite noticeable to me (and negates pretty much everything you can do to optimize latency for real-time playing). That's just not worth eliminating a lag-free USB cable IMHO.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency [Re: MarkF786] #2883458
08/25/19 08:14 PM
08/25/19 08:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,257
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,257
Raleigh, North Carolina
Indeed. 20-30 msec TOTAL latency is intolerable. So adding 20-30 msec to existing latency is just too much.
When you consider that the piano isn't going anywhere, what's the harm in using a cable?
Plug it in, plug it in.


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