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My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal #2881857
08/20/19 11:02 PM
08/20/19 11:02 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,298
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Ralphiano Offline OP
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Ralphiano  Offline OP
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I bought Garritan CFX Lite last night, installed it, and played it with my Kawai VPC1. So far, I like it.

However, the program does not recognize or respond to my sustain pedal. I am using the same F-30 three pedal unit that came with the VPC1, and, which has worked flawlessly right up to the moment I started CFX Lite for the first time.The pedal unit is plugged into the VPC1 exactly as it was while I used Pianoteq.

The soft pedal and sostenuto pedal both seem to work, as I can hear CFX's pedal noise when I depress them. And, the little indicator light for those two pedals light up when I depress those two pedals. When I depress the sustain pedal, I get no feedback whatsoever and no sustain of any notes played.

I haven't found any help in the User Interface, and, the Garritan Blog and "Community" are very sparsely populated, and no help appears there.

I did submit a help request to Garritan, but, I wondered if any of you have had this experience or have knowledge of what the problem could be.

I do not have a strong working knowledge of MIDI or things digital, so, talking to me like I am a complete novice is welcomed! laugh

Thanks for your help.


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX Lite
Pianist since April, 2015
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Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2881864
08/21/19 12:05 AM
08/21/19 12:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Ralphiano,

Does Garritan CFX have any kind of debug window that shows the MIDI CC# messages received from the connected MIDI device?
If so, do you see any events when the damper pedal is pressed? Indeed, has Garritan CFX been configured to respond to the pedal MIDI CC#s correctly?

If the damper pedal functions correctly in Pianoteq, I don't see why it should not function in Garritan CFX. I'm aware that some packages respond to half-pedal events differently than others, but the pedal should at least register when pressed.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882124
08/21/19 04:29 PM
08/21/19 04:29 PM
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Ralphiano Offline OP
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Thanks for your prompt reply and guidance, James. I think I may have solved the problem, though, I would love to have your assessment of whether the solution I implemented is the optimal one.

I do not have internet at home. I have to ferry data from the internet to my home computer by USB flash drive that I carry back and forth from home to a public wifi spot.

When I got home from work a few minutes ago, I fired up the computer, CFX Lite, and VPC Editor. I thought I remembered from last night's research of the Garritan website that CFX Lite looked for the sustain pedal on channel CC66. Prompted by your query about whether it had a "window that shows the MIDI CC# messages", I remembered that VPC Editor had a window that shows the channel assignments for the three pedals of my F-30 pedal unit connected to the VPC1. So, I looked there to see if the channels were the same as what CFX Lite was expecting.

I found that the (right) sustain pedal was assigned to channel CC65, and not CC66 as I thought CFX Lite required. So, I quickly changed the right pedal value to 66 in VPC Editor. This immediately brought about a sustain response in CFX Lite. It seems that CFX Lite and my VPC1/F-30 pedal assembly are now communicating.

I am currently back at my public wifi spot to report on this progress. I just noticed from the information I copied from the Garritan website last night, that the CFX Lite actually looks for the sustain pedal on channel CC64, not on CC66 as I was incorrectly remembering. However, it looks for the sostenuto pedal at channel CC66, the channel I to which I directed my sustain pedal in VPC Editor a short while ago. So, even though I thought I had solved the problem, I think my right pedal is currently functioning as a sostenuto pedal and I just was not careful enough to recognize the subtle difference when I tested it. In a short while, I will return home and change the sustain pedal assignment in VPC Editor from channel CC66 to channel CC64, the channel where CFX Lite looks for the sustain pedal.

Does this seem like I am on track to resolve this? Am I omitting anything?

I will report back again after I make the described change.

Thanks again for responding to my call for help. smile


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX Lite
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882129
08/21/19 04:45 PM
08/21/19 04:45 PM
Joined: May 2017
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karvala Offline
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karvala  Offline
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I think you're on the right track, Ralph. CC64 is indeed what you should be looking to assign to the sustain pedal, so I think if you make that small adjustment, you should be sorted.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Bl├╝thner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882134
08/21/19 04:56 PM
08/21/19 04:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,198
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,198
Raleigh, North Carolina
I did not know you could alter the pedal code settings on your piano (or on any piano).
In any case, the MIDI definition for the three piano pedals is:
64 . . Damper Pedal
66 . . Sostenuto
67 . . Soft Pedal

Don't confuse CC 64 damper/sustain with CC 66 sostenuto. They're quite different, despite some superficial similarities.
If you want to set up the damper pedal it should be CC 64, not CC 66.
Originally Posted by Ralphiano
I found that the (right) sustain pedal was assigned to channel CC65, and not CC66 as I thought CFX Lite required. So, I quickly changed the right pedal value to 66 in VPC Editor. This immediately brought about a sustain response in CFX Lite. It seems that CFX Lite and my VPC1/F-30 pedal assembly are now communicating.

Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882138
08/21/19 05:07 PM
08/21/19 05:07 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,298
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Ralphiano Offline OP
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Ralphiano  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
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Thanks, everyone. I'll have that final adjustment done in a couple hours and will report back.


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX Lite
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: MacMacMac] #2882187
08/21/19 08:41 PM
08/21/19 08:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Ralph,

By the time you read this, I expect you will have already resolved the pedal issue, however here are the default MIDI CC# assignments:

[Linked Image]

I'm not sure how/why you managed to change these assignments, but am confident that reverting back to the defaults will resolve the situation.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: MacMacMac] #2882188
08/21/19 08:43 PM
08/21/19 08:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I did not know you could alter the pedal code settings on your piano (or on any piano).


I believe most stage pianos / MIDI controllers offer this functionality. Of course, the defaults are intended to work "out of the box", however there may be occasions when a user wishes to control a different MIDI CC#.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882199
08/21/19 09:36 PM
08/21/19 09:36 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,298
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Ralphiano Offline OP
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Ralphiano  Offline OP
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Thanks, James. I think I have not tried that exact combination, especially those Output Settings at the bottom.

I just finished following today's set of instructions from Garritan's support. It involved loading a program named "MIDI Ox" and testing to see if the computer was receiving MIDI messaged from the VPC1. All seems well in that regard. And, I think that I knew that already.

I do worry that if I only get one instruction per day from Garritan, that this process could run into a week or more.

A few other things I've noticed:

1. When the CFX Lite interface is loaded on my screen, there is an "on-screen" keyboard and pedal unit displayed, just like in Pianoteq. I The user can mouse click on a key and the note will sound. The pedals also perform their function if the user mouse clicks one of them. For instance, if I click on the sustain pedal icon, the icon becomes visually brighter, and any note played by mouse click on the keyboard while the sustain pedal icon is illuminated will be sustained just as if played on a piano with the sustain pedal depressed. This mouse-activated sustain works as it should.

2. If, while the note described in the preceding paragraph is sustaining, I depress the Kawai sustain pedal, the sustain immediately stops, as if a properly functioning sustain pedal had been released. So, the Kawai pedal unit is interacting to some extent with CFX Lite.

My CFX Lite midi input selector is set to "OMNI". I tried all 16 midi output channels accessible in VPC Editor and none of them provided proper sustain pedal operation.

I am now going to try those Output Settings you provided, James. I'll report back within a couple of hours.

I deeply appreciate all of you pitching in to help. Midi, and all things digital are a tremendous weakness for me. It is very comforting to have experienced and knowledgeable minds readily available to assist.

Thanks, everyone!


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX Lite
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882204
08/21/19 10:03 PM
08/21/19 10:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Ralph,

Originally Posted by Ralphiano
Thanks, James. I think I have not tried that exact combination, especially those Output Settings at the bottom.


Please don't worry too much about the Output Settings. I believe those are the details (that screenshot was sent by a colleague a few years ago), however they should not affect the pedal behaviour, especially if the notes are already working correctly (i.e. playing the keys sends MIDI data to the computer, which triggers the correct sound in CFX).

I'm 99% sure the problem is related to incorrect pedal CC# assignments in the VPC1 Editor.

One more thing to add: the VPC1 has a Factory Reset function that should restore the instrument (controller?) to the original factory settings.

While the VPC1 is turned on:
1. Press and hold the power button.
2. Press the bottommost (bass end) three white keys (A, B, C) simultaneously.
The VPC1 should now be restored to its factory default configuration.

Please note that the Factory Reset function requires that the VPC1 is using the v1.04 (or later) firmware - the firmware version can be checked in the "About" window of the VPC Editor, which is shown by clicking the KAWAI logo in the bottom left corner.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882217
08/21/19 10:43 PM
08/21/19 10:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 149
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bsntn99 Offline
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bsntn99  Offline
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Posts: 149
Looking at the scripting in the CFX Lite, I can confirm the CC settings in the graphic above from Kawai James. My pedals (don't have a VPC1) work correctly with these settings. These are pretty much a standard for all virtual instruments. In the interface in the lower right corner, you see the 3 pedals. When you depress the different pedals they should correspondingly light up. If they are behaving oppositely, turning off when depressed, then there is a polarity issue.

Also, make sure you have the two plugs from the pedals plugged into the right ports on the VPC1 and pushed in all the way. One is a mono type plug and the other is a stereo type plug. Very important these are plugged into the right jacks. You will see the pedals light up in a different order if they are not plugged in correctly. Lastly under tools/preferences, make sure your midi device (VPC1) is visible and enable all ports to be safe.

Last edited by bsntn99; 08/21/19 10:44 PM.
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882222
08/21/19 11:10 PM
08/21/19 11:10 PM
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Posts: 1,298
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Ralphiano Offline OP
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Ralphiano  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,298
WooHoooooooo!!!!!

The sustain pedal is working now. Thank you, James, for sticking with me through this. It seems the factory reset did the trick.

Now, I can get on with exploring my new CFX Lite.


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX Lite
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: My new CFX Lite does not recognize my VPC1 sustain pedal [Re: Ralphiano] #2882232
08/21/19 11:52 PM
08/21/19 11:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Good to hear!

Happy to help!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019

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