2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
62 members (anotherscott, David B, BlakeOR, chopin_r_us, antune, aphexdisklavier, AcousticAndre, 15 invisible), 623 guests, and 439 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by P W Grey
Weak*,

You made (IMHO) the classic shopping mistakes and are now feeling the classic confusion results. I've seen this scenario over and over and over.

My advice (if you asked for it) would be (since you are a beginner) to buy the piano you are going to lose the least on when you go to upgrade (assuming that you do upgrade). Face the fact that no matter what you buy these days, you are going to take a hit whenever you decide to sell it or trade it. As a beginner, you can make progress with any decent upright. Also, as mentioned, it should have some form of silent feature on it since you don't yet know how your neighbors are going to react. It is also easier to take a vertical with you if you decide to move.

If I were a betting man (which I'm not) I would wager that your decision-making "process" carries over into other areas of your life (correct me if I'm wrong please). You are (I'd guess) a bit of a perfectionist, as well as "afraid" of making a mistake.

If you have a moderate amount of money to spend, spend it on a moderate piano, relax, learn, make progress...then in 5 years or so (if you keep playing) start considering a greater purchase.

Chill out (I'm not saying this in a derogatory way but rather a comforting way) and make the decision. You will feel better afterward with stress relief. (BTW do an etymological research on the word "decision"...very interesting).

If you don't like this advice I understand and accept it. No problem.

Pwg


I think you should be a therapist on the side. You got it! I am a perfectionist (not a bit, but quite severe actually) and afraid of making mistakes. My therapist is already helping me with that LOL!!!

The piano I will lose the least will probably be a K-300 or U1. It will also be the easiest to sell.


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,927
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,927
I would vote for either one. Both good.

Being a "follower" of Dr. John Sarno's mindbody approach to medicine I have acquired a little insight into certain personality patterns and their effects. Although I am known as "The Piano Doctor" my practice is limited to pianos. Pianos are very much like people though as many here well know.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,523
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,523
Have you considered the silent feature on the Yamaha's and Kawai's. You have an old digital. You could have the "best" digital in one of the best upright pianos. Where you may find you love playing it as a digital, with no concern for the neighbors at all. You can also find the same systems on their grands.



Kawai NV10
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by TomLC
Have you considered the silent feature on the Yamaha's and Kawai's. You have an old digital. You could have the "best" digital in one of the best upright pianos. Where you may find you love playing it as a digital, with no concern for the neighbors at all. You can also find the same systems on their grands.


Thanks. I have considered it. I have also tried the K-300 Aures. It is the same price as a K-500. If I were to go the upright route, I will be happy with the practice pedal and old digital. If I go the grand route, I will still be ok with my old digital as an after-hours instrument. The reason I'm hesitant having a silent function piano is that the silent function is electronic and it becomes old at a much faster rate than the acoustic part. Seeing that I am a perfectionist as mentioned above, an acoustic piano with an outdated silent function will bother me in 5-10 years' time.


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,304
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,304
Combining the Piano Doctors and TomLC’s advice, get a silent U1 or K300. Uprights are significantly easier to move or find room for. Nice. Nice solution.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,825
K
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,825
Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.

If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."

Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.

Kurt


**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.

If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."

Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.

Kurt


At the beginning, I was VERY concerned about this. I am much less concerned now, hence I think I will go with a regular acoustic. One of my neighbours has a piano and I figured if they can have a piano, so can I. Only loud booming bass travels through the structure of our buildings. Treble travels less well, if at all. For example, noise from TV, banging pots and screaming children don't travel through at all, but doors slamming and people walking down stairs do travel.


Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 08/19/19 02:39 PM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Why are you so worried about the neighbors?

WeakLeftHand's job is becoming more demanding and she's said she will be home after 7pm every day. Most communities have noise ordinances setting maximum sound pressure levels at certain hours.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,927
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,927
That may be 100% true. However it's nice to have some concern about the neighbors. 'Treat others as we would like to be treated' has some merit.

The felt practice strip that is in most uprights these days is not only highly effective at cutting volume for repetitive practice, it sounds cool too, AND it is relatively inexpensive to replace if you wear it out through use. Vs the expense of a "silent" system. Simplicity.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 564
M
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 564
I’d second that - I love the sound of an upright with the felt active and it doesn’t involve electronics.
I had a K300 ATX2 and quickly came to prefer the felt to the digital module the few times I wanted to be silent.

I just bought an old U1 and I shan’t be touching my rented ES8 again unless the U1 catches on fire smile

The U1 was cheap and plays and sounds wonderful - getting something good enough for not much money could be a way for you to side step your fear of choosing unwisely ?

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
I’d second that - I love the sound of an upright with the felt active and it doesn’t involve electronics.
I had a K300 ATX2 and quickly came to prefer the felt to the digital module the few times I wanted to be silent.

I just bought an old U1 and I shan’t be touching my rented ES8 again unless the U1 catches on fire smile

The U1 was cheap and plays and sounds wonderful - getting something good enough for not much money could be a way for you to side step your fear of choosing unwisely ?



Yes, it would help me overcome my fear of choosing the wrong piano. I'm also glad to hear that you actually like playing with the practice pedal/felt. I was a little concerned about that too. Now I'm not.


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,423
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,423
But be sure to try playing with the practice felt down if you haven't yet. I personally hate it. Sorry!! That's probably not helping.... whome

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 08/19/19 03:52 PM.

Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
But be sure to try playing with the practice felt down if you haven't yet. I personally hate it. Sorry!! That's probably not helping.... whome


Haha no, but for someone who is ok with it, there will be someone who won't be. I'll remember to play it with the practice pedal to satisfy myself that I'll be ok with it.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 08/19/19 04:04 PM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 564
M
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 564
To be fair I liked it best for practicing small troublesome passages, playing scales etc and usually not for playing entire pieces as it does change the sound and dynamics a great deal.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,678
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.

If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."

Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.

Kurt
If things were as simple as you describe I think the sales of digitals would be far less. The appeal to those who generally don't play very late or very early would be far less. TVs can easily be turned lower and people don't bang pots and pans for an hour at a time.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.

If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."

Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.

Kurt
If things were as simple as you describe I think the sales of digitals would be far less. The appeal to those who generally don't play very late or very early would be far less. TVs can easily be turned lower and people don't bang pots and pans for an hour at a time.

OK I do not know why this is but Pianoloverus talking about banging pots and pans for an hour has
suddenly given me a hysterics .Sorry I cannot explain.
My husband is now watching me .
I agree with Morten using the muted soft pedal can help greatly.
When one reaches a more advanced level it will be more problematic. Of course playing a whole piece with the practise pedal will not be much use.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/19/19 08:55 PM. Reason: Spelling
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,927
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,927
It just sounds "spacey" to me. I like the effect...but not all the time.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
WeakLeftHand,
It sounds as though you are a rather worried about creating a disturbance .There nothing worse than feeling as though you have to always play softly.
I am not sure how much of an issue this is .If it is important I would suggest getting an upright with a mute (practice pedal)You can use this when you feel inhibited by the neighbours At least you would be able to use your new accoustic piano when you have to practice later in the evening
I would get the best upright you can IF that is what you want.
U1, U3, YUS5,K300,K500 ,Boston,OR even the Bechstein Academy you were thinking of.You could at least play the accoustic by using the practice pedal rather than just looking at the accoustic then having to practice on the digital.
You really need to play this new piano! However I do not know how much you feel you need a grand
piano.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/19/19 10:17 PM. Reason: Spelling
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
WeakLeftHand,
It sounds as though you are a rather worried about creating a disturbance .There nothing worse than feeling as though you have to always play softly.
I am not sure how much of an issue this is .If it is important I would suggest getting an upright with a mute (practice pedal)You can use this when you feel inhibited by the neighbours At least you would be able to use your new accoustic piano when you have to practice later in the evening
I would get the best upright you can IF that is what you want.
U1, U3, YUS5,K300,K500 ,Boston,OR even the Bechstein Academy you were thinking of.You could at least play the accoustic by using the practice pedal rather than just looking at the accoustic then having to practice on the digital.
You really need to play this new piano! However I do not know how much you feel you need a grand
piano.


Oh Lady Bird and others, please tell me if I need a grand or not. I can tell the difference in action but does it really matter at my level? I can see a practice pedal being useful in my circumstances but I will have no use for a sostenuto pedal on a grand until 7, 8 or 9 years away. Is having a grand action that important?

You guys have been so helpful.


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,839
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,839
WeakLeftHand

Many of us here played on an upright for many years and were no worse for the wear. However, if you can feel the difference between the two actions now, I would recommend the grand

Please note that you will never ‘need’ a sostenuto pedal for several reasons: first, there is little music that is written for it. Yes, there is music not written for the sostenuto that works well to add. There are two different schools of thought about adding in that scenerio. Secondly, there are many fine grands without it. My piano has it but I won’t use it on any piece I might play in public as my teacher has told me sostenutos can behave differently depending on the piano. I am concerned that I would be very flustered if I had practiced with it and then needed to abandon it without warning

Probably TMI


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Page 2 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pivot termination
by Guido, Roma - Italy - 04/19/21 01:45 PM
Numa Compact 2x VS Arturia Keylab Essential 88
by Violao - 04/19/21 01:14 PM
The Logo of the Future - Steingraeber
by Skjalg - 04/19/21 10:47 AM
Practuce With Czerny
by BbAltered - 04/19/21 10:05 AM
What to check when getting a new piano
by Dong Huynh - 04/19/21 05:13 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,396
Posts3,084,136
Members101,241
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5