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Weak*,
You made (IMHO) the classic shopping mistakes and are now feeling the classic confusion results. I've seen this scenario over and over and over.
My advice (if you asked for it) would be (since you are a beginner) to buy the piano you are going to lose the least on when you go to upgrade (assuming that you do upgrade). Face the fact that no matter what you buy these days, you are going to take a hit whenever you decide to sell it or trade it. As a beginner, you can make progress with any decent upright. Also, as mentioned, it should have some form of silent feature on it since you don't yet know how your neighbors are going to react. It is also easier to take a vertical with you if you decide to move.
If I were a betting man (which I'm not) I would wager that your decision-making "process" carries over into other areas of your life (correct me if I'm wrong please). You are (I'd guess) a bit of a perfectionist, as well as "afraid" of making a mistake.
If you have a moderate amount of money to spend, spend it on a moderate piano, relax, learn, make progress...then in 5 years or so (if you keep playing) start considering a greater purchase.
Chill out (I'm not saying this in a derogatory way but rather a comforting way) and make the decision. You will feel better afterward with stress relief. (BTW do an etymological research on the word "decision"...very interesting).
If you don't like this advice I understand and accept it. No problem.
Pwg I think you should be a therapist on the side. You got it! I am a perfectionist (not a bit, but quite severe actually) and afraid of making mistakes. My therapist is already helping me with that LOL!!! The piano I will lose the least will probably be a K-300 or U1. It will also be the easiest to sell.
Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
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I would vote for either one. Both good.
Being a "follower" of Dr. John Sarno's mindbody approach to medicine I have acquired a little insight into certain personality patterns and their effects. Although I am known as "The Piano Doctor" my practice is limited to pianos. Pianos are very much like people though as many here well know.
Pwg
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Have you considered the silent feature on the Yamaha's and Kawai's. You have an old digital. You could have the "best" digital in one of the best upright pianos. Where you may find you love playing it as a digital, with no concern for the neighbors at all. You can also find the same systems on their grands.
Kawai NV10
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Have you considered the silent feature on the Yamaha's and Kawai's. You have an old digital. You could have the "best" digital in one of the best upright pianos. Where you may find you love playing it as a digital, with no concern for the neighbors at all. You can also find the same systems on their grands. Thanks. I have considered it. I have also tried the K-300 Aures. It is the same price as a K-500. If I were to go the upright route, I will be happy with the practice pedal and old digital. If I go the grand route, I will still be ok with my old digital as an after-hours instrument. The reason I'm hesitant having a silent function piano is that the silent function is electronic and it becomes old at a much faster rate than the acoustic part. Seeing that I am a perfectionist as mentioned above, an acoustic piano with an outdated silent function will bother me in 5-10 years' time.
Kawai K-500
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Combining the Piano Doctors and TomLC’s advice, get a silent U1 or K300. Uprights are significantly easier to move or find room for. Nice. Nice solution.
J & J Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty The reason I’m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid. ![[Linked Image]]( http://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/12292.png)
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Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.
If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."
Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.
Kurt
**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
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Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.
If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."
Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.
Kurt At the beginning, I was VERY concerned about this. I am much less concerned now, hence I think I will go with a regular acoustic. One of my neighbours has a piano and I figured if they can have a piano, so can I. Only loud booming bass travels through the structure of our buildings. Treble travels less well, if at all. For example, noise from TV, banging pots and screaming children don't travel through at all, but doors slamming and people walking down stairs do travel.
Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 08/19/19 02:39 PM.
Kawai K-500
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Why are you so worried about the neighbors? WeakLeftHand's job is becoming more demanding and she's said she will be home after 7pm every day. Most communities have noise ordinances setting maximum sound pressure levels at certain hours.
![[Linked Image]](http://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/12282.png) across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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That may be 100% true. However it's nice to have some concern about the neighbors. 'Treat others as we would like to be treated' has some merit.
The felt practice strip that is in most uprights these days is not only highly effective at cutting volume for repetitive practice, it sounds cool too, AND it is relatively inexpensive to replace if you wear it out through use. Vs the expense of a "silent" system. Simplicity.
Pwg
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I’d second that - I love the sound of an upright with the felt active and it doesn’t involve electronics. I had a K300 ATX2 and quickly came to prefer the felt to the digital module the few times I wanted to be silent. I just bought an old U1 and I shan’t be touching my rented ES8 again unless the U1 catches on fire  The U1 was cheap and plays and sounds wonderful - getting something good enough for not much money could be a way for you to side step your fear of choosing unwisely ?
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I’d second that - I love the sound of an upright with the felt active and it doesn’t involve electronics. I had a K300 ATX2 and quickly came to prefer the felt to the digital module the few times I wanted to be silent. I just bought an old U1 and I shan’t be touching my rented ES8 again unless the U1 catches on fire The U1 was cheap and plays and sounds wonderful - getting something good enough for not much money could be a way for you to side step your fear of choosing unwisely ? Yes, it would help me overcome my fear of choosing the wrong piano. I'm also glad to hear that you actually like playing with the practice pedal/felt. I was a little concerned about that too. Now I'm not.
Kawai K-500
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But be sure to try playing with the practice felt down if you haven't yet. I personally hate it. Sorry!! That's probably not helping.... 
Last edited by ShiroKuro; 08/19/19 03:52 PM.
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2 ![[Linked Image]](http://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/9medals.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/medal_c_3.jpg)
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But be sure to try playing with the practice felt down if you haven't yet. I personally hate it. Sorry!! That's probably not helping.... Haha no, but for someone who is ok with it, there will be someone who won't be. I'll remember to play it with the practice pedal to satisfy myself that I'll be ok with it.
Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 08/19/19 04:04 PM.
Kawai K-500
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To be fair I liked it best for practicing small troublesome passages, playing scales etc and usually not for playing entire pieces as it does change the sound and dynamics a great deal.
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Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.
If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."
Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.
Kurt If things were as simple as you describe I think the sales of digitals would be far less. The appeal to those who generally don't play very late or very early would be far less. TVs can easily be turned lower and people don't bang pots and pans for an hour at a time.
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Why are you so worried about the neighbors? There is no right to silence and your piano is no worse than their TV, banging pots, pan and their screaming children.
If it's your own insecurity about being "nice" , there's no help for that but you have a right to make "noise."
Many communities allow specifically for the practice of acoustic instruments or have on the books an allowable noise limit
either at the property lines or in the adjoining spaces. Check the rules where you live.
Kurt If things were as simple as you describe I think the sales of digitals would be far less. The appeal to those who generally don't play very late or very early would be far less. TVs can easily be turned lower and people don't bang pots and pans for an hour at a time. OK I do not know why this is but Pianoloverus talking about banging pots and pans for an hour has suddenly given me a hysterics .Sorry I cannot explain. My husband is now watching me . I agree with Morten using the muted soft pedal can help greatly. When one reaches a more advanced level it will be more problematic. Of course playing a whole piece with the practise pedal will not be much use.
Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/19/19 08:55 PM. Reason: Spelling
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It just sounds "spacey" to me. I like the effect...but not all the time.
Pwg
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WeakLeftHand,
It sounds as though you are a rather worried about creating a disturbance .There nothing worse than feeling as though you have to always play softly.
I am not sure how much of an issue this is .If it is important I would suggest getting an upright with a mute (practice pedal)You can use this when you feel inhibited by the neighbours At least you would be able to use your new accoustic piano when you have to practice later in the evening
I would get the best upright you can IF that is what you want.
U1, U3, YUS5,K300,K500 ,Boston,OR even the Bechstein Academy you were thinking of.You could at least play the accoustic by using the practice pedal rather than just looking at the accoustic then having to practice on the digital.
You really need to play this new piano! However I do not know how much you feel you need a grand
piano.
Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/19/19 10:17 PM. Reason: Spelling
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WeakLeftHand,
It sounds as though you are a rather worried about creating a disturbance .There nothing worse than feeling as though you have to always play softly.
I am not sure how much of an issue this is .If it is important I would suggest getting an upright with a mute (practice pedal)You can use this when you feel inhibited by the neighbours At least you would be able to use your new accoustic piano when you have to practice later in the evening
I would get the best upright you can IF that is what you want.
U1, U3, YUS5,K300,K500 ,Boston,OR even the Bechstein Academy you were thinking of.You could at least play the accoustic by using the practice pedal rather than just looking at the accoustic then having to practice on the digital.
You really need to play this new piano! However I do not know how much you feel you need a grand
piano. Oh Lady Bird and others, please tell me if I need a grand or not. I can tell the difference in action but does it really matter at my level? I can see a practice pedal being useful in my circumstances but I will have no use for a sostenuto pedal on a grand until 7, 8 or 9 years away. Is having a grand action that important? You guys have been so helpful.
Kawai K-500
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WeakLeftHand
Many of us here played on an upright for many years and were no worse for the wear. However, if you can feel the difference between the two actions now, I would recommend the grand
Please note that you will never ‘need’ a sostenuto pedal for several reasons: first, there is little music that is written for it. Yes, there is music not written for the sostenuto that works well to add. There are two different schools of thought about adding in that scenerio. Secondly, there are many fine grands without it. My piano has it but I won’t use it on any piece I might play in public as my teacher has told me sostenutos can behave differently depending on the piano. I am concerned that I would be very flustered if I had practiced with it and then needed to abandon it without warning
Probably TMI
"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
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