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Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone #2881283
08/19/19 12:03 PM
08/19/19 12:03 PM
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panche23 Offline OP
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I am in the market for a Yamaha C2X or maybe a Kawai GX2. I've played both and would be happy with either. The Yamaha is priced about 5-6k more. Since they appear of equal quality, is it worth the difference in the price? The dealer says (Yamaha) their action is all wood and does not use plastic, since the carbon fiber is not as good and cheaper to build. The Kawai dealer says Kawai action is stronger and will last longer. Also, you pay more since Yamaha spends lots on advertising. Anyone experience this when piano shopping?


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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881285
08/19/19 12:10 PM
08/19/19 12:10 PM
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WeakLeftHand Offline
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Originally Posted by panche23
I am in the market for a Yamaha C2X or maybe a Kawai GX2. I've played both and would be happy with either. The Yamaha is priced about 5-6k more. Since they appear of equal quality, is it worth the difference in the price? The dealer says (Yamaha) their action is all wood and does not use plastic, since the carbon fiber is not as good and cheaper to build. The Kawai dealer says Kawai action is stronger and will last longer. Also, you pay more since Yamaha spends lots on advertising. Anyone experience this when piano shopping?


Hahaha yes! Whenever I mention to a dealer I'm considering a Kawai...they will unfailingly mention that they use "plastic" parts! I think those dealers should get over that because apparently, that's not a negative! Hahaha!

FYI, I'm also considering a Kawai GX-2. Haven't tried the C2X. Maybe I should...

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 08/19/19 12:12 PM.
Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881295
08/19/19 12:40 PM
08/19/19 12:40 PM
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Yamaha C2X and Kawai G2X. Similar size, close on price, different sound and different feel. Buy whichever one you like better. Both a good, long lasting, stable pianos that should remain a pleasure to own and play. It’s back to the apples vs oranges question they’re both sweet fruit but taste different and feel different.
Carbon fiber isn’t just plastic. The Millennium III is more convenient in a humid climate but you still have a soundboard that’s wood so you still might need a damp chaser. I like the more mellow sound of the Yamaha Cx series. Other folks prefer the Kawai voice.


J & J
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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881300
08/19/19 12:56 PM
08/19/19 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by panche23
I am in the market for a Yamaha C2X or maybe a Kawai GX2. I've played both and would be happy with either. The Yamaha is priced about 5-6k more. Since they appear of equal quality, is it worth the difference in the price? The dealer says (Yamaha) their action is all wood and does not use plastic, since the carbon fiber is not as good and cheaper to build. The Kawai dealer says Kawai action is stronger and will last longer. Also, you pay more since Yamaha spends lots on advertising. Anyone experience this when piano shopping?


The Yamaha dealer is ignorant, or maybe he just has no integrity.

Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881301
08/19/19 12:58 PM
08/19/19 12:58 PM
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Hakki Offline
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C2X is 5'8" whereas GX-2 is 5'11. I own a 14 year old RX-2 and the MILLENNIUM III action is very good so far. I would go with the GX-2.

Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881315
08/19/19 01:36 PM
08/19/19 01:36 PM
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I prefer the feel of the Yamaha action so that’s what the OP should buy! How ridiculous is that statement? Both are great sub 6’ pianos. There is no right or wrong answer. Play both. Several times. Then buy the one you want.
And the Kawai dealer is also making up crap about the Yamaha advertisement stuff.

Last edited by j&j; 08/19/19 01:38 PM.

J & J
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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881357
08/19/19 03:07 PM
08/19/19 03:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
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During my piano search this summer, IOW all in the last three months, I've played several different Kawai grands, new and used, from the 5' GL model up to the 5'11" GX, and some used in the RX series. I've also played a few different Yamaha C2s, a C3, a brand new GC1, and a few different used G-series. The only brand new Yamaha I've been able to play so far was the GC series, so it's a line below the CX line and may not be a good comparison, but here are my thoughts.

As for the new Kawais, I liked the sound of *all* of them (except the 5'), I really like the 5'5" one I played, and the 5'11" sounded great as well. I liked the RX one as well. But across the board, I did not like the action on any of them. I know they are quite popular, so I was really surprised and not at all expecting that. I asked the dealer (the one with all the new Kawais) why he thought that would be the case. He told me that all the Kawais I had played had the basically the same action, and he showed me a model of the carbon fiber action. He obviously thinks very highly of the action, but given that my reaction to the Kawai grands was so consistent, and also given that I liked several other makes and models he had in his showroom, he said it must be the Kawai action that I didn't like (because his pianos, Kawai and otherwise, were all prepped by the same guy).

Now, as j&j says, it would be ridiculous to choose a piano based on someone else's preferences, but this is just to share my experience. Again, I thought they all sounded great, but I really didn't like the feel of the action.

As for the Yamahas I unfortunately have not had the chance to play any new grands in the CX series. But I have loved all the C-series grands I've played so far, and I liked the new GC grand a lot as well. With the G-series, my reactions were much more mixed. There were some I liked and some I didn't.

The same goes for the sound. I liked all the C-series (C2 and C3 pianos) that I played, and then with the smaller G-series, there some I definitely didn't like.

So, I personally ruled out the Kawai models from my search. But that is personal preference rather than any concern about quality.

Speaking of quality, I have played a 35ish y/o Yahama C3 and an older RX Kawai (I'm not remember the details about that one) and both were very nice. Which is to say, based on these two older instruments, I don't see any reason to think that one will last longer than the other. (Again, this is subjective, but that's all I have!)

Now you've said you've played both and would be happy with either. In that case, are the space concerns such that you might prefer the slightly smaller CX2? (although, it's not that big of a difference). Are there budgetary concerns such that you would prefer the less expensive one? Have you compared the warranty from each dealer? Do you have a piano to trade in? Are there any of these kinds of factors that could tip you toward one or the other?

Or, do you need to make another trip (or two) to play and compare again? How much playing time did you spend on each instrument? I feel like if you go and play them both again, your ears and your fingers will tell you which one you like better.

Or, if they don't, and you really do like them equally, then by all means get the one that's less expensive!!

Either way, keep us posted!!

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 08/19/19 03:14 PM.

Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881483
08/19/19 11:18 PM
08/19/19 11:18 PM
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I am owning a yamaha U1 and C3X, but I want to say what the yamaha dealer has said doesn't make sense. Action is not the part transmitting the sound, so it doesn't have to be made in wood.


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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2881508
08/20/19 02:44 AM
08/20/19 02:44 AM
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etherline Offline
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I didn't encounter anyone denigrating the quality of a competitor's product during my search (other than don't buy a Bluthner with a patent action because no-one knows how to fix them any more [which isn't true here in the UK]) although I did encounter some occasional lack of product knowledge and a claim of the magic Steinway forest.

In the end I bought my piano from the people whose skill and expertise I most trusted.

Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: WeakLeftHand] #2881510
08/20/19 03:13 AM
08/20/19 03:13 AM
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Groove On Offline
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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
The dealer says (Yamaha) their action is all wood and does not use plastic, since the carbon fiber is not as good and cheaper to build. The Kawai dealer says Kawai action is stronger and will last longer.

My aunt has was recently shopping for a Yamaha C2X or a Kawai GX2. I was absolutely appalled by two dealers who pulled the “plastic parts” sales pitch; it left a really bad impression. Thankfully we found a dealer who carried both and gave us a good price - she bought the Kawai GX2 mainly because she lives in a very humid climate. But we both also loved the Yamaha which is pretty even in terms of quality.

My strategy for the “plastic parts” sales pitch is to point out that Kawai uses carbon fiber not plastic. If they continue, I point out that “wood is also a type of carbon fiber” and so there are a lot of similarities between the materials - with each having some strengths and weaknesses. If they don’t take the hint - it’s time to say goodbye.


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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2882235
08/22/19 12:01 AM
08/22/19 12:01 AM
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I have tried both this summer. I liked the sound of the Yamaha better but didn’t care for the dealer. The dealer at Kawai was terrific but I didn’t care for the action. Don’t know if that is carbon fiber related or just the way their actions are,
The Kawai dealer said that Yamaha is going to start transitioning over to carbon fiber in the not too distant future. Don’t know how true that is but…

Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: j&j] #2882246
08/22/19 01:59 AM
08/22/19 01:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,411
North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Online content
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Originally Posted by Hakki
C2X is 5'8" whereas GX-2 is 5'11. I own a 14 year old RX-2 and the MILLENNIUM III action is very good so far. I would go with the GX-2.

Originally Posted by j&j
I prefer the feel of the Yamaha action so that’s what the OP should buy! How ridiculous is that statement? Both are great sub 6’ pianos. There is no right or wrong answer. Play both. Several times. Then buy the one you want.
And the Kawai dealer is also making up crap about the Yamaha advertisement stuff.

Hakki loves Kawai, J&J loves Yamaha ----They are both just as good as each other but in different ways.They both have the same excellent ,but different tone quality and there is nothing wrong with either of thier actions ! (I am beginning to hate that word --action)
Japanese pianos are wonderful! Just make music on them ! (then thoughts of mechanisms go out the window ! )
I think if we could all swop our pianos for a month we would appreciate each others pianos more !
For most of my life I had a Kawai grand and I loved that piano even when strings were snapping and the upper treble suddenly lost its brilliance.The piano was over 50 years old .My teacher chose the piano and I was really quite cross because Yamaha was a famous piano and Kawai was at that stage not all famous. Being a teenager I wanted the famous brand.Later on I got a U1 as a teaching piano.It was a used piano and was sold cheap because it had scratches all over the piano.Someone it looked had gone and used a knife ?The piano itself was great and also had a lovely tone and response.
A friend of mine had a Yamaha grand but I had grown to really love my Kawai grand by that time.
I still appreciated her piano however as a fine instrument.
Before I sold my old Kawai grand last year I began thinking of the old Seiler upright piano my aunt gave me as a child ........so! The pianos that have meant so much to us in our lIves play out in so many ways in our life!


Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/22/19 02:03 AM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2882342
08/22/19 10:13 AM
08/22/19 10:13 AM
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Steve Cohen Offline
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Both are great pianos and either would provide decades of fine performance.

However with a 3" length advantage, the Millennium III action and a $5000 price advantage, I think the GX makes the most sense.


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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2882401
08/22/19 01:33 PM
08/22/19 01:33 PM
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I actually bought a new gx-2 recently and am very happy with it ! Hopefully posting a review soon. I really enjoyed playing the CX series as well - but Kawai was a bit better value for me

Last edited by kdr152004; 08/22/19 01:34 PM.

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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2882478
08/22/19 04:57 PM
08/22/19 04:57 PM
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Lady Bird Online content
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I just want to add that we lived in a very humid area when I had that Kawai grand and I took the
piano with me when I moved to 2 different countries and we never used any form of climate control.
Being made about 1966 , I am not sure if the piano had any plastic parts or if it was wood.Not that I
think that matters much.
Just recently I bought a used Kawai upright made in 1984 or 85 so it does not have the Millennium action.It has a beautiful mellow tone and has is very responsive (not in the same league as my Sauter but still a very good upright )
A few weeks ago I tried a few of the new GL Kawai grands for interest sake and yes they were very responsive.The small 5ft one had a fairly small sound but more mellow in sound to the 5 '2" or
the 5'5" which were much brighter (unusual for Kawai )The 5'11" had a more mellow sound similar
to but a bigger tone than the 5ft piano.
Of course the GX2 has a really lovely tone but the "action" the same as the GL series.(same response) When it comes to choice a great deal should depend on a creative tone and a sensitive
response )

Last edited by Lady Bird; 08/22/19 05:05 PM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2882483
08/22/19 05:03 PM
08/22/19 05:03 PM
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Lady Bird Online content
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I just want to add the Kawai grand was sold to a Kawai dealer and is being used as a teaching piano
in the dealer.It has been restrung and restored.

Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2887029
09/04/19 08:20 PM
09/04/19 08:20 PM
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MovingKeys Offline
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Kawai's Millenium action is NOT carbon fiber, it is ABS carbon. There is a difference.

ABS carbon is plastic with carbon filament. carbon filament are carbon strands essentially chopped up and mixed in with plastic during printing or molding. Hence, the Kawai action is technically plastic.

ABS carbon has some benefits in that it is very inexpensive to produce, which is good if the cost savings is passed onto the consumer. It is consistent - As it is not organic, consistency tolerances between parts SHOULD be extremely accurate. It is not affected by humidity - This should be a positive for the most part.

BUT...there are some disadvantages as well. It does not resonate - Many piano manufacturers believe that every element of the piano contributes to the sound, including the action components. Plastic and wood do not bond well together - This isn't an issue for the grands but if you ever look at where the hammer shank is inserted into the butt in a Kawai upright...it is UGLY. It is not affected by humidity - This is also a disadvantage in that the plastic parts will not fluctuate from atmospheric changes while the wood components will. Example: In grands the hammer shank will expand and compress, the flange won't. In uprights you'll have the same issue where the shank will expand and compress and the butt will not, which is probably why they use so much adhesive to bond the parts in their uprights.

Bottom line, neither dealer really knows what they're talking about and are simply on the defense so the customer doesn't go to the other guy down the street. There are places where both companies excel and others where they don't. Yamaha has always been very good at conditioning and seasoning the wood in their Japan made models, contributing to their longevity, which is why they're probably the most sought after piano in the used market. Kawai has always been good at slotting pianos just under Yamaha's price point and delivering products that are, while not as refined, a great value in touch and tone.

Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2887074
09/05/19 01:11 AM
09/05/19 01:11 AM
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Quote
But we both also loved the Yamaha which is pretty even in terms of quality


Could someone perhaps explain to me how a quality comparisons among near equals of today’s pianos is even possible? I always thought its about touch & tone, parts & components perhaps. Lying about each other seems one way. Including of course lying about any other piano out there.
Feeling sorry for modern day shoppers.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 09/05/19 01:13 AM.

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Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2890444
09/14/19 09:47 PM
09/14/19 09:47 PM
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panche23 Offline OP
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So I was able to find a 3 year old Yamaha C2X for a little less than a new Kawai RX2. Action felt better to me on the Yamaha and the price was right. Thanks for all the input.


C2XPEC
Re: Yamaha C2X Thoughts Anyone [Re: panche23] #2890449
09/14/19 10:05 PM
09/14/19 10:05 PM
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Not too far North of Los Angel...
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Not too far North of Los Angel...
A new RX-2 is also a might fine piano. Pick the one you like the best in sound and action.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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