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2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? #2879406
08/13/19 11:52 PM
08/13/19 11:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
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jojousa Offline OP
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jojousa  Offline OP
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Found a private seller out of state, 20K for a 2000 Model M, judging from limited photo it appears to be in good condition, and seller appears to be honest armature individual.
Wondering if it is worth it to plunge in~ blush

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Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2879409
08/14/19 12:01 AM
08/14/19 12:01 AM
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Posts: 5,260
Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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For that kind of money, you need to hire a technician to tune and inspect the piano. I suggest hiring one who is skilled in tone regulation. If you can play it first to see how it sounds, feels and looks to you, then hire the tech.

You might want to reverse this order if travel for you is a big deal.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2879414
08/14/19 12:19 AM
08/14/19 12:19 AM
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Posts: 22,871
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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As Ed McMorrow implies, one can't tell whether or not this piano is "worth" it. One cannot tell the condition of a piano from photographs, and condition is everything in a used piano. Only a qualified technician can verify the true condition of the instrument.

If you can try it and if you like it enough to consider buying it, having it inspected by a professional technician is money well invested. The only "plunging in" I would recommend is a trip to try the piano, if you can do that. Otherwise, buying sight unseen, touch unfelt, and tone unheard is a big risk.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2879476
08/14/19 08:34 AM
08/14/19 08:34 AM
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jojousa Offline OP
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Big thanks to both of you

Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2879481
08/14/19 08:50 AM
08/14/19 08:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,449
Southwest
j&j Offline
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
For that kind of money, you need to hire a technician to tune and inspect the piano. I suggest hiring one who is skilled in tone regulation. If you can play it first to see how it sounds, feels and looks to you, then hire the tech.

You might want to reverse this order if travel for you is a big deal.

As usual, Ed McMorrow’s advice is right on the money! I have become completely spoiled by the good advice available on PianoWorld. Since a piano technician’s inspection is never done for free, I’d arrange first to go look at it and try it out. If you like the piano you can call your piano tech ( with whom you’ve already scheduled to visit the piano to check it out). If you aren’t happy with the piano, call the tech and tell him/her you’ll use them on the next piano try out. Best of Luck!


J & J
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Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2879514
08/14/19 10:44 AM
08/14/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,260
Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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An additional point. Some pianos have the metal of the V-bar case-hardened. This is damaging to the strings and also causes more false beats in the treble tone.

Your technician can test for this by using a small file to slightly cut into the V-bar either at the extreme treble beyond where string are placed, or under the treble strut. The sound of the file cutting should be "soft". It should not sound like one file rubbing another. (Which will ruin the edge of files teeth).


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2879574
08/14/19 02:33 PM
08/14/19 02:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,780
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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While Ed's suggestion of such a file test is harmless to the piano, I would expect resistance from the seller (and most technicians) when asked to file someones piano.

To the OP, we've personally seen some Steinways that young or younger with manufacturing defects. I would consider it rare.

We've seen far more with issues of condition (environment/maintenance problems). I would not consider that rare. On its face, it sounds like an attractive price, but there is more to find out before you can be comfortable with the purchase.


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Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: PianoWorksATL] #2879665
08/14/19 10:39 PM
08/14/19 10:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,260
Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Seattle, WA USA
I have never had any resistance to performing this test except from piano dealers. None from private sellers, they don't even notice what I am doing as I usually combine it with checking the damper action.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2879669
08/14/19 10:47 PM
08/14/19 10:47 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,413
Florida
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
I have never had any resistance to performing this test except from piano dealers. None from private sellers, they don't even notice what I am doing as I usually combine it with checking the damper action.


If a private buyer knew what you were doing, I bet you would meet plenty of resistance to using a file! Would I let an unknown tech whip out a file to make a small cut, NO!!!!


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: dogperson] #2879681
08/15/19 01:08 AM
08/15/19 01:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,657
Oakland
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BDB Offline
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If one cannot hear a problem, then there is no point in doing a test for one. If one can hear a problem, then there is no point in buying the piano.

Somehow, I am always reminded of this.


Semipro Tech
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: BDB] #2879810
08/15/19 07:59 AM
08/15/19 07:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,804
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by BDB
If one cannot hear a problem, then there is no point in doing a test for one. If one can hear a problem, then there is no point in buying the piano.

Somehow, I am always reminded of this.


grin


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Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2880819
08/18/19 06:51 AM
08/18/19 06:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 7
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jojousa Offline OP
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Update on the piano, so we went to checkout the piano yesterday, piano is in overall great condition and is fitted with the PianoDisc 228Cfx player system , little out of tune due to lack of regular tunning

The owner is quite novice on playing and probably used her pianodisc player more than herself.
However one glaring issue we encountered is that the sustain and damper pedal were both have very
limited travel, and hence the effects. Both pedals are attached to the player system. Is that something can be adjusted? Or does it require an overhaul of the player system?
Any idea of estimated cost on a voicing, regulation and a good tunning would cost for a Steinway? Thank you.

Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2881024
08/18/19 04:04 PM
08/18/19 04:04 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 152
Foster City, CA, US
K
Ken Iisaka Offline
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Ken Iisaka  Offline
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K

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 152
Foster City, CA, US
Originally Posted by jojousa
Update on the piano, so we went to checkout the piano yesterday, piano is in overall great condition and is fitted with the PianoDisc 228Cfx player system , little out of tune due to lack of regular tunning

The owner is quite novice on playing and probably used her pianodisc player more than herself.
However one glaring issue we encountered is that the sustain and damper pedal were both have very
limited travel, and hence the effects. Both pedals are attached to the player system. Is that something can be adjusted? Or does it require an overhaul of the player system?
Any idea of estimated cost on a voicing, regulation and a good tunning would cost for a Steinway? Thank you.


In my personal opinion, installation of PianoDisc or other player mechanism greatly reduces the value of the piano, partially due to the problems you describe, but it requires permanent and irreversible modifications to the piano. Installation requires a long slot to be cut through the key bed, as well as to the key frame. There is a possibility that the structural integrity of the piano itself is compromised, and regulation issues may arise from shortening the key frame.

Recently, someone was selling a similarly equipped S of similar age in my neighbourhood. The price went as low as $12,000, but there was no taker.

Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2881046
08/18/19 04:50 PM
08/18/19 04:50 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,950
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA
You definitely want an answer from a qualified technician as to the cost of un-screwing up the pedal system (trapwork is a term often used among techs) before proceeding any further. It might be something simple, but there's a definite possibility that correcting it will be shockingly expensive.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2881056
08/18/19 05:20 PM
08/18/19 05:20 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,996
Florida
cmb13 Offline

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Florida
Fwiw I got an A3 in very good (restored) condition for not much more. I think it was a very lucky deal though. 20k for a Steinway grand in good condition isn’t bad no matter what.


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Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2881071
08/18/19 05:44 PM
08/18/19 05:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,260
Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,260
Seattle, WA USA
I have taken Steinway grands that had digital players in them and removed them.

I fit new spruce into the keybed to repair the cutout and do the same to the keyframe, (not spruce; birch, ash or maple). I also get rid of the player trapwork. When I get done, it is very difficult to see the repair.

The Pianodisc trapwork is crappy. If you want to keep the player it can be re-engineered to make the feel and function of the pedals good.

This of course cost from a few hundreds to a couple or three thousand dollars.

Last edited by Ed McMorrow, RPT; 08/18/19 05:45 PM. Reason: typos

In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2881079
08/18/19 06:06 PM
08/18/19 06:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,881
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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San Jose, CA
Such player devices enable owners who do not actually play, themselves, to put wear on a piano far in excess of what might otherwise be expected of a 19-year-old instrument.

Plus what all the others said, above.

We have no clue where you are, so the only way to help further is to suggest http://ptg.org ,who may be able to recommend a technician near where the candidate piano is. That, or you might try some long-distance telephone detective work. Possibly, calling the Steinway dealership that serves the location for a referral.

I'm shrugging.

Oh, and what did you mean by, "seller appears to be honest armature individual?" I know autofill or autocorrect can do some wacky things, but...

Anyway, good luck with this one.


Clef

Re: 2000 Steinway M for 20K worth it? [Re: jojousa] #2881081
08/18/19 06:13 PM
08/18/19 06:13 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,996
Florida
cmb13 Offline

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Florida
I wouldn’t be keen on someone taking a file to my piano either. No way. And if I found out someone did that discretely, without my knowledge, that’s lawsuit territory. I’m sure if you’re doing that it must be safe and harmless, but the implication that it would be done on the sly doesn’t sit well with me at all.

Last edited by cmb13; 08/18/19 06:15 PM.

Steinway A3
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Bach Inventions
Grieg Sonata - Andante molto

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart

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