Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
55 registered members (Chris Vitale, AlphaBravoCharlie, Charles Cohen, cmoody31, Animisha, Cudo, Arty Movie, Burkie, Brahms4, 9 invisible), 2,023 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai #2879903
08/15/19 01:34 PM
08/15/19 01:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
In this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldvU8sv924

Yamaha P-515, Kawai ES8 and Roland FP-90 are compared.

This will give anyone a clear idea of how Yamaha CP88, Kawai MP7SE, and Roland RD-2000 compare together as well (sound-wise).

I believe Kawai is sonically a superior instrument. P-515 lacks the presence and clarity of Kawai in low and mid keys and Roland sounds very synthesized.

That being said, among RD-2000, CP88 and MP7SE, I always go with MP7SE.

The action of MP7SE was closer to a Kawai's own grand piano compared to Roland RD-2000 when I played all of them in the store.

Of course the sound is subjective and obviously, Kawai sounds like a Kawai piano and Yamaha sounds like a Yamaha piano. Roland sounds like... what can I say! It sounds bad.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2879906
08/15/19 01:57 PM
08/15/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 71
VladK Offline
Full Member
VladK  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 71
You actually compare internal speakers? Kawai lows should sound deeper and more focused thanks to bigger woofers, and Yamaha should sound brighter through the whole range thanks to 2.5 tweeters (absent in Kawai), and probably this was CFX, not Bösendorfer?
Also, the biggest issue with such comparisons is that the reviewer hears live sound, and the rest are listening to YouTube processed sound with at least one more DAC conversion (I used HD650, for example).

Last edited by VladK; 08/15/19 01:58 PM.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner.
Yamaha P-515, P-80, HS8, Sennheiser HD 650
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: VladK] #2879914
08/15/19 02:27 PM
08/15/19 02:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Originally Posted by VladK
You actually compare internal speakers? Kawai lows should sound deeper and more focused thanks to bigger woofers, and Yamaha should sound brighter through the whole range thanks to 2.5 tweeters (absent in Kawai), and probably this was CFX, not Bösendorfer?
Also, the biggest issue with such comparisons is that the reviewer hears live sound, and the rest are listening to YouTube processed sound with at least one more DAC conversion (I used HD650, for example).


Speakers and tweeters are irrelevant here!? These instruments are all recorded professionally through the outputs. This is actually among the best sounding comparisons on youtube.

The reviewer isn't listening to a live sound and there is nothing wrong with Youtube's audio compression. "It depends on how the video is processed and converted". I can tell you that all the DPs in real-life sound exactly the same.

If you have too much doubt, check out the demos on the soundcloud.com

I use Sony MDR-7506 which is more suitable for comparison compared to HD650!

I will later try to find a demo of Bossendorfer on soundcloud and post it here.

Last edited by Abdol; 08/15/19 02:30 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2879916
08/15/19 02:41 PM
08/15/19 02:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Here is a good recording of Bosendorfer. Again it suffers from lack of presence and clarity in the low and mids again. The major difference between Bosendorfer and CFX is Bosendorfer is darker and round.

https://youtu.be/txzR77ZOzjM?t=295

Min: 5:00

Also, P-515 suffers severely from obvious looping:

https://soundcloud.com/user-412788536/yamaha-p-515-sympathetic

which is obvious in the above audio recording.

Last edited by Abdol; 08/15/19 02:42 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2879987
08/15/19 05:51 PM
08/15/19 05:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 71
VladK Offline
Full Member
VladK  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by Abdol


Also, P-515 suffers severely from obvious looping:

https://soundcloud.com/user-412788536/yamaha-p-515-sympathetic

which is obvious in the above audio recording.


Interesting. I just received my P-515, and checked same 3-note sequence with headphones and with monitors.While there was some fading which can be controlled by reverb setting (default is not off, but recital), there was no looping I could hear. Was signal captured through MIDI, USB Host, or AUX OUT? I'd like to be able to reproduce it, this is for sure, and I am completely new to modern keyboards, so this would be a good exercise for me.


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner.
Yamaha P-515, P-80, HS8, Sennheiser HD 650
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2879991
08/15/19 06:15 PM
08/15/19 06:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,240
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,240
Raleigh, North Carolina
I think it's anything but obvious. The way this was played does a good job of disguising any looping.
Originally Posted by Abdol
P-515 suffers severely from obvious looping:
https://soundcloud.com/user-412788536/yamaha-p-515-sympathetic
which is obvious in the above audio recording.
You need long sustained notes to make looping obvious.
It's odd that each note here decays so very rapidly.

Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: VladK] #2879999
08/15/19 06:56 PM
08/15/19 06:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Originally Posted by VladK

Interesting. I just received my P-515, and checked same 3-note sequence with headphones and with monitors.While there was some fading which can be controlled by reverb setting (default is not off, but recital), there was no looping I could hear. Was signal captured through MIDI, USB Host, or AUX OUT? I'd like to be able to reproduce it, this is for sure, and I am completely new to modern keyboards, so this would be a good exercise for me.


Which notes? The looping is because of the sympathetic resonance so the same notes are the lower notes that are pressed very gently just before play the louder notes.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880006
08/15/19 07:35 PM
08/15/19 07:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,240
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,240
Raleigh, North Carolina
If the only looping were in the sympathetic resonance it would be ignorable.

Try again, but this time hold a note for its full decay. Then the looping, if any, will be apparent (and meaningful).

Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: MacMacMac] #2880041
08/15/19 11:50 PM
08/15/19 11:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Sure but still I prefer the sound of Kawai over Yamaha and Roland. It's a fuller sound and the individual notes are more audible when played.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880047
08/16/19 01:55 AM
08/16/19 01:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 21
Maconi Offline
Full Member
Maconi  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 21
To be fair, piano sound is probably the least important part of a DP (even though that statement sounds silly at first), at least IMO.

Price/Reliability rank at the top for me (does it cost a fortune and will the keys start breaking down after a few years of use). Then key action (it's hard to play the piano properly if the action is bad). Last is piano sound since you can always compensate this area on DPs with a VST of some sort (plenty to choose from).

So while it's a good video for sound quality, I would still suggest actually trying to find these models in a store and actually playing them (keeping in mind that the sound is the least important, again at least IMO).

Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880076
08/16/19 05:00 AM
08/16/19 05:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
magicpiano Offline
Full Member
magicpiano  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by Abdol
Which notes? The looping is because of the sympathetic resonance so the same notes are the lower notes that are pressed very gently just before play the louder notes.
That example shows just that on the P515 the sympathetic resonance works as a very short looping sample (at least for those notes), but you should try with long sustained notes to check the real duration of the looping.

Anyway, looping can be very apparent just when you play and hold "a single" note for more than 4-5 seconds. More the notes you play together, less you will hear the looping,

And let's face it: how many are the situations in which you hold just a single note for more than 4 sec. with no other notes playing in the background, apart from testing situations?

P.S.: of those 3 digital pianos I place Yamaha and Kawai on the same level. Roland has the usual nice and clear but a little more syntethic sound. They are 3 good instruments and I would choose between them only based on the feeling of the action and the sound timbre I like more.

Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880087
08/16/19 05:48 AM
08/16/19 05:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,670
Groove On Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Groove On  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,670
Originally Posted by Abdol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldvU8sv924
Yamaha P-515, Kawai ES8 and Roland FP-90 are compared ... I believe Kawai is sonically a superior instrument. P-515 lacks the presence and clarity of Kawai in low and mid keys and Roland sounds very synthesized.

I agree, but my ranking of sound is #1 Kawai, #2 Roland, #3 Yamaha.

The Yamaha comes last for me because it sounds dead. There’s something ‘exactly the same’ about how each note is being produced. I can’t quite put my finger on it but as the player moves from note to note my ears start tuning out the sound from the ‘sameness’ that I hear.

In contrast the ES8 sounds the most alive as the player moves from note to note. The FP90 is also alive but much more subdued and yes has that synthesized sound. In my case, I’d be fine with either the ES8 or FP90 because I can work with what they offer and work around the shortcomings, but the P515 sound is a no go for me.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880115
08/16/19 07:46 AM
08/16/19 07:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 430
Udachny, North-East Siberia
P
PianoStartsAt33 Online content
Full Member
PianoStartsAt33  Online Content
Full Member
P

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 430
Udachny, North-East Siberia
Originally Posted by Abdol


I use Sony MDR-7506 which is more suitable for comparison compared to HD650!



What a funny guy. He uses "!" and speaks about DPs and headphones in a manner as if his words are the only and undisputable truth. Ha-ha--ha-ha-ha.That's really funny.

Last edited by PianoStartsAt33; 08/16/19 07:47 AM.

"No succes of failure matters when it's about true vocation". Nicolás Gómez Dávila
“The goal of music is to help people live”. Francis Bebey

Roland LX-706, Korg D1

YoutubeChannel
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2880171
08/16/19 09:30 AM
08/16/19 09:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33

What a funny guy. He uses "!" and speaks about DPs and headphones in a manner as if his words are the only and undisputable truth. Ha-ha--ha-ha-ha.That's really funny.


You're interpreting it your own way. I didn't mean to say I'm 100% right. HD650 is more suitable for mastering as it has open cups. There are better headphones for monitoring (compared to mine) I just have these. The point was I'm not listening to the audio through trash headphones...

No, not really? I didn't mean to offend you (or anyone) buy putting "!" I'll keep that in mind.

Last edited by Abdol; 08/16/19 09:33 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Maconi] #2880175
08/16/19 09:40 AM
08/16/19 09:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Originally Posted by Maconi
To be fair, piano sound is probably the least important part of a DP (even though that statement sounds silly at first), at least IMO.

Price/Reliability rank at the top for me (does it cost a fortune and will the keys start breaking down after a few years of use). Then key action (it's hard to play the piano properly if the action is bad). Last is piano sound since you can always compensate this area on DPs with a VST of some sort (plenty to choose from).

So while it's a good video for sound quality, I would still suggest actually trying to find these models in a store and actually playing them (keeping in mind that the sound is the least important, again at least IMO).


I have played Roland, Yamaha (not CP88) and Kawai in addition to a Kawai grand piano at the store. Among all of them I liked Kawai the most (action and sound).

And as I said originally, the sound is very subjective. I just expressed my personal opinion and preference. Some might like Yamaha others Roland. Hopefully, it's not offending anyone.


And I agree with "Groove On" about Kawai.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880316
08/16/19 03:17 PM
08/16/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Here is another video which has all of the pianos in CP88:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqCNJIQBQME

They all sound muffled. I think one of the best samples Yamaha ever did is S700 piano samples. I like the mids and lows of this sample a lot.

I believe Shigeru Kawai SK-EX beats CP88 any day.

Here are some demos for Kawai MP7SE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3HsegmCnBo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfleWxwj4G4

Kawai's piano sound cuts through the mix pretty good much better that what I can get out of my XF.

Have a good day smile


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880371
08/16/19 06:07 PM
08/16/19 06:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 54
London, United Kingdom
H
Hecarim Offline
Full Member
Hecarim  Offline
Full Member
H

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 54
London, United Kingdom
Whilst I'd agree between the usual trio the Kawai is the one that sounds more lively, from my perspective is only because the one whose action suits my fingers better. I find the sound of the FP90 a bit warmer, though I do agree it's quite synth-y in the higher 2-3 scales.

All of these machines, bear in mind, pale in comparison to the most basic actual grand - if you compare them at stores, pay particular attention to sustain and general warmth of the sound. I have a GL10 and a FP90 in my house at present and honestly the FP90 sounds like, well, crap. Before having them side by side, though, the FP90 sounded very good to my ears - it's all relative.

Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880391
08/16/19 06:49 PM
08/16/19 06:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 560
America
J
Jitin Offline
500 Post Club Member
Jitin  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 560
America
Abdul:

Have you tried these in person? Really it is best way to choose, and preferably side by side in one place, it’s no way of knowing how it will sound, B all YouTube videos the instruments sound slightly different, the p515 out of the box has a touch sensitive that is more “hard “ requiring more velocity for fuller sound , I own p515 I changed it from medium to soft1 , that combined with recording techniques and YouTube , best to try then judge the sound


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2880470
08/17/19 01:35 AM
08/17/19 01:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 42
Omaha, Nebraska
K
Kougeru Offline
Full Member
Kougeru  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 42
Omaha, Nebraska
Ya Idk how anyone can say the Yamaha sounds "muffled" in any of those clips unless your ears are just VERY use to brighter tones. Yamaha sounds the best to me in all of those comparisons and sounds great in Woody's videos.

Re: Comparison of Yamaha Kawai Roland DPs and why I picked Kawai [Re: Abdol] #2881161
08/19/19 12:52 AM
08/19/19 12:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
A
Abdol Offline OP
Full Member
Abdol  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 179
Canada
Sound is very subjective. I still prefer CP1 and S700 piano sounds over the new CFX and Bosendorfer.

I'm not used to brighter piano sounds (I have owned many Yamaha gears). I think the brightness in Kawai piano sounds is on the realistic side.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Database error on ABF Recital Index
by MarieJ. 09/22/19 03:02 AM
Ringing sound G3
by Idotdot. 09/21/19 10:56 PM
Had Stroke - changing direction
by oneilt130. 09/21/19 08:58 PM
Progression suggestions
by Jake0254. 09/21/19 07:24 PM
Native Instruments NOIRE demo & short review
by Keunyoung Song. 09/21/19 05:38 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,153
Posts2,871,916
Members94,474
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1