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The Death of Melody #2880096
08/16/19 06:16 AM
08/16/19 06:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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Curious what people here think about this rather dramatic viewpoint:



across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880100
08/16/19 06:28 AM
08/16/19 06:28 AM
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Malarkey

Here is Jacob Collier from non-classical forum
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...idal-wave-jacob-collier.html#Post2880072


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880114
08/16/19 07:42 AM
08/16/19 07:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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I think there is some truth in his assertion. His examples are very compelling.


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Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880117
08/16/19 07:48 AM
08/16/19 07:48 AM
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One thing that guy is right about - we are too dumb to whistle complete tunes anymore these days. Even a simple one like John Williams's from Schindler's List.

So, we take a bite-sized, Twitter-sized snippet out of a much longer melody, and......lo and behold, you get a ringtone that anyone can whistle (except that most people are too tone-deaf to do so):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk4KK-gh0FM

Why bother with this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQzUx3QW2Y

So, for all those tone-deaf ones, you don't need a melody anymore - you just need a simple rhythm, and one that you can bob your head to yippie.

(Just be careful with your neck....... smirk )


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880125
08/16/19 08:21 AM
08/16/19 08:21 AM
Joined: May 2016
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Moscow, Russia
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Iaroslav Vasiliev Online content
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I agree with the video. Now there are young people who think that music with long melody is weird.

Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880127
08/16/19 08:28 AM
08/16/19 08:28 AM
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I think he's right in what he's actually SAID and shown. (I'm wondering if those who disagreed watched the video and paid attention to ALL that he said)

I think that today, melody is just taking a back seat stylistically. What's popular isn't melodic music and hopefully it will change in the not too distant future. I'm a fan of good melodies. smile

Someone (not sure who) said "Melody IS the tune" and I sort of agree with them...chord changes and rhythms are subservient. You can play the same chords and play different melodies over them and you have different tunes.

Last edited by PianoWVBob; 08/16/19 08:29 AM.
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880141
08/16/19 08:39 AM
08/16/19 08:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
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Sweden
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I think melody won't ever die. It is just what he says, a modern trend. Trends will come and go. Melodies are so strong and compelling, they will survive.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880143
08/16/19 08:49 AM
08/16/19 08:49 AM
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Posts: 346
Denmark
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In my view this is just part and parcel of the general dumbing down of society.

Music with several distinct notes is more complex, and requires more mental effort for its comprehension, than music with just a single note (or none at all). Modern people, being ever on the lookout for ways to avoid using their minds, will happily gravitate towards music with fewer distinct notes, and therefore simpler melody.

I would say that popular rythms are also much simpler nowadays than in earlier times, and harmony is often dispensed with.

If the Beatles (who by historical standards were surely not writing complex music) were to have a hit today with "She loves you", they probably would have to include only the refrain "Yeah, yeah, yeah" leaving everything else out. And in ten years from now, they would probably have to cut it down to just a series of slow primal exhaust sounds with no definable meaning.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28, Pianoteq 6.5 (Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2), Garritan CFX Lite
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: QuasiUnaFantasia] #2880158
08/16/19 09:09 AM
08/16/19 09:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,286
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Modern people, being ever on the lookout for ways to avoid using their minds, will happily gravitate towards music with fewer distinct notes, and therefore simpler melody.

I would say that popular rythms are also much simpler nowadays than in earlier times, and harmony is often dispensed with.

If the Beatles (who by historical standards were surely not writing complex music) were to have a hit today with "She loves you", they probably would have to include only the refrain "Yeah, yeah, yeah" leaving everything else out. And in ten years from now, they would probably have to cut it down to just a series of slow primal exhaust sounds with no definable meaning.

My wife used to listen to a lot of techno and dance mixes so I paid attention to that sound. I think techno, dance mixes, rap, and hip hop are just different faces of pure rhythm.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880217
08/16/19 11:05 AM
08/16/19 11:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 333
Texas
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

I watched the whole video (except for the rap/hip-hop section, as I have no wish to vomit on my keyboard) and I think he's catastrophizing a little bit.

Also, this only applies to Western music. Has he listened to any Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, or Korean music lately? I guarantee you, melody is alive and well, at least in the Orient, even in their pop/disco/techno. (I'm a big fan of Japanese disco, especially in anime soundtracks.)

Now pardon me while I go listen to some pentatonic Japanese disco... (well, pentatonic with perhaps an occasional flattened mediant...)


Austin Rogers, PhD
Music Teacher in Austin, TX
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand "Kuroneko", Baldwin Upright, Yamaha P-255
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880225
08/16/19 11:25 AM
08/16/19 11:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,485
Finland
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outo Offline
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What a boring and useless video...I'd say what's dying is interesting and insightful content...side effect of the YT culture I guess, where everyone has to make their contributions even if there's very little to say.

If you want melodies, there's enough music around with plenty. But melody just isn't needed for artistic expression or the listener's enjoyment. And no melody is better than a boring melody...

Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880265
08/16/19 01:11 PM
08/16/19 01:11 PM
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Posts: 1,420
uk south
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uk south
The trouble with the kind of view expressed in the video is that it is impossible to quantify what a good melody is, and without that quantification all that remains is somebodies opinion as to which melodies are good and which bad. What bugs me is that he doesn’t seem to get that tries to justify the superiority of the melodies he likes with spurious concepts about complexity and empathetic expression.

Last edited by beeboss; 08/16/19 01:13 PM.
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880292
08/16/19 02:34 PM
08/16/19 02:34 PM
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Posts: 407
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I wonder who this guy is. I'm guessing he's a writer of words. Journalist or something. I kept cringing each time he said "no melody". Didn't he notice there was also no harmonic movement. That's why I thought he was a literary guy. I remember some years back, a guy who wrote a biography about Frank Sinatra. I caught him on 2 separate radio interviews (NPR). He ignorantly (and I guess unknowingly) embarrassed himself when he said that Sinatra was a musical genius the likes of which only comes around every several hundred years - like a Mozart. Huh ? I think Sinatra was a great singer, and I loved those late 1950's arrangements (Nelson Riddle for one. Possibly Billy May for another). Frank had it going on. But he was not more of a musical genius than Stravinsky, Debussy, Bartok and you can add your favorites.

Also the guy kept pulling up examples of current pop pablum. Sure he mentioned Hans Zimmer. But he kept focusing on stupid pop and hip hop hits. Never mentioning the lack of harmonic movement. The current pop music drivel is mostly crap !

Someone mentioned Jacob Collier. He's a special musical universe - at 24 years old. He's very open to sharing information. I think he'll be influencing many young people. There are T shirts you can order on Amazon with things like, "It's a Jacob thing, you wouldn't understand". Also I'm a regular listener to Chris Thile's Saturday night NPR show called "Live From Here". Chris plays mandolin. He's recorded with people like Yo Yo Ma and Brad Mehldau - in other words he's a heavyweight. Great musical guests. I'm regularly surprised and impressed by music on his show.

You have to search out current high quality music these days. But it really does exist. I'm questionable on the level of musical knowledge in the author of the original video.

Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880358
08/16/19 05:17 PM
08/16/19 05:17 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,641
New York City
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Whether the person in the video is correct about the "death of melody" depends on what percentage of music today sounds like the examples he gives (which are certainly lacking in melody).

Here's Michael Feinstein singing "Whatever Happered to Melody":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9smi7FSQWKg
(begins around 6:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64emObdnJwM

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/16/19 05:25 PM.
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880384
08/16/19 06:26 PM
08/16/19 06:26 PM
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I think it's just a feature that Western "serious music" took on when it was realized that Bach, Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven represent a kind of "summit" from which there could only be decline in the form of endless repetition, and Common Practice was left behind. Thus the "modern" techniques were formed, with atonality and the rest. So I'd guess that from that perspective "the death of melody" would be a good thing.
As for pop music, I think it'd be pretty hard to produce strongly melodic songs without inviting comparison to Gershwin or Lennon-McCartney or Dylan, so pretty much the same dynamic. I'm not so sure that creativity and originality are bottomless wells. It could be that sometimes media just become exhausted, the point at which everything that can be said has been said.

Re: The Death of Melody [Re: indigo_dave] #2880402
08/16/19 07:19 PM
08/16/19 07:19 PM
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Essex, UK
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Originally Posted by indigo_dave

Also the guy kept pulling up examples of current pop pablum. Sure he mentioned Hans Zimmer. But he kept focusing on stupid pop and hip hop hits. Never mentioning the lack of harmonic movement. The current pop music drivel is mostly crap !




The point of him bringing up pop was to contrast it to pop from 40/50 years ago. There was a time when pop had harmony, his examples of Queen and the Beatles, heck even The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac I'll add myself. And to contrast that to pop today, it is very different. There has always been crap and good music. His bringing up of pop was purely to contrast it to a previous generation where pop had harmony.


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Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Dr. Rogers] #2880478
08/17/19 02:54 AM
08/17/19 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

I watched the whole video (except for the rap/hip-hop section, as I have no wish to vomit on my keyboard) and I think he's catastrophizing a little bit.

Also, this only applies to Western music. Has he listened to any Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, or Korean music lately? I guarantee you, melody is alive and well, at least in the Orient, even in their pop/disco/techno. (I'm a big fan of Japanese disco, especially in anime soundtracks.)

Now pardon me while I go listen to some pentatonic Japanese disco... (well, pentatonic with perhaps an occasional flattened mediant...)

His entire video was about western music...that was the context. He didn't say that melody was vacant in all music (or for that matter he didn't say vacant in ALL western music. He made some observations that he was careful to define and set boundaries on) He was in no way doing a "sky is falling!" thing at all.

Re: The Death of Melody [Re: PianoWVBob] #2880534
08/17/19 09:17 AM
08/17/19 09:17 AM
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by PianoWVBob
Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

I watched the whole video (except for the rap/hip-hop section, as I have no wish to vomit on my keyboard) and I think he's catastrophizing a little bit.

Also, this only applies to Western music. Has he listened to any Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, or Korean music lately? I guarantee you, melody is alive and well, at least in the Orient, even in their pop/disco/techno. (I'm a big fan of Japanese disco, especially in anime soundtracks.)

Now pardon me while I go listen to some pentatonic Japanese disco... (well, pentatonic with perhaps an occasional flattened mediant...)

His entire video was about western music...that was the context. He didn't say that melody was vacant in all music (or for that matter he didn't say vacant in ALL western music. He made some observations that he was careful to define and set boundaries on) He was in no way doing a "sky is falling!" thing at all.


Exactly- western music was the context. And his examples were very convincing.


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Re: The Death of Melody [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2880537
08/17/19 09:19 AM
08/17/19 09:19 AM
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I agree that current mass marketed pop music is melodically simplistic. My mind tunes it out if I'm someplace where it's being played over speakers.

As I said, with a bit of searching there's excellent musical craft and invention to be found. The performance below was recorded live for the NPR Tiny Desk concert series on July 22, 2019.


Last edited by indigo_dave; 08/17/19 09:22 AM.
Re: The Death of Melody [Re: indigo_dave] #2880542
08/17/19 09:25 AM
08/17/19 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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Originally Posted by indigo_dave
I agree that current mass marketed pop music is melodically simplistic. My mind tunes it out if I'm someplace where it's being played over speakers.

As I said, with a bit of searching there's excellent musical craft and invention to be found. The performance below was recorded live for the NPR Tiny Desk concert series on July 22, 2019.


dogperson's first post - 2nd post in thread - also cited Jacob Collier as a counterexample.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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