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Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 #2879796
08/15/19 07:15 AM
08/15/19 07:15 AM
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Patrick Cox Offline OP
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I currently have a Yamaha AvantGrand N2 and a YUS5 acoustic. And I end up playing the N2 probably 10 to 1 over the acoustic simply because I can practice and not disturb anyone in the house. So I have been thinking about trading both in and stepping up to an N3X. So my question is really for those who have played an older and new generation AvantGrand. Is the newer X series a significant upgrade over the prior generation AG? What are you getting on the newer pianos?

Thanks!

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879798
08/15/19 07:29 AM
08/15/19 07:29 AM
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Posts: 4,238
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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I can't comment on comparison between the older generation and the newer because I've never compared them side by side but since you mention that you mostly play the N2 for silent practicing I would assume you use headphones. If that's the case, the N3X would be an overkill and you can also check the N1X which has the same keyboard and piano engine. Also, for headphone usage, the X-generation utilize binaural CFX samples that are almost universally acclaimed. However if you still play through speakers and require better realism, the N3X would be better than N1X.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879816
08/15/19 08:16 AM
08/15/19 08:16 AM
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robinlb Offline
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Why not consider Yamaha C1X TA2?
Should be better than old N3X and Acoustic within DP 2in1.


CA98~~RME ADI2 DAC~~VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879827
08/15/19 08:51 AM
08/15/19 08:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,467
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Cox
I currently have a Yamaha AvantGrand N2 and a YUS5 acoustic. And I end up playing the N2 probably 10 to 1 over the acoustic simply because I can practice and not disturb anyone in the house. So I have been thinking about trading both in and stepping up to an N3X. So my question is really for those who have played an older and new generation AvantGrand. Is the newer X series a significant upgrade over the prior generation AG? What are you getting on the newer pianos?

Thanks!


You'll need to test them Patrick. The N*X models have better sampling for starters. You'd definitely want to hear that before deciding.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: robinlb] #2879840
08/15/19 09:37 AM
08/15/19 09:37 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by robinlb
Why not consider Yamaha C1X TA2?
Should be better than old N3X and Acoustic within DP 2in1.

But if the OP plays 91% with headphones and 9% without, why does get an acoustical piano at all? He'll have to be constantly tuning it just to be able to play his 9% without headphones. Let's even say the OP plays an hour a day, seven days a week. That means he plays on the order of 35 mins a week without headphones. Is all that tuning going to be worth 3.5 hours a month of piano playing? Or conversely, playing on a piano which gets more and more detuned over time if he doesn't tune it? In the OPs situation, I would definitely be considering N3X over C1X-TA2.

(Of course, the calculus changes if the OP plays without headphones more than 9% of the time.)


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879842
08/15/19 09:48 AM
08/15/19 09:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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If you have an acoustic then play the acoustic. And get rid of the digital.

Can't play the acoustic late at night? So what? Play it all the day long. At night ... just sleep.

Simple.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2879848
08/15/19 10:05 AM
08/15/19 10:05 AM
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robinlb Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by robinlb
Why not consider Yamaha C1X TA2?
Should be better than old N3X and Acoustic within DP 2in1.

But if the OP plays 91% with headphones and 9% without, why does get an acoustical piano at all? He'll have to be constantly tuning it just to be able to play his 9% without headphones. Let's even say the OP plays an hour a day, seven days a week. That means he plays on the order of 35 mins a week without headphones. Is all that tuning going to be worth 3.5 hours a month of piano playing? Or conversely, playing on a piano which gets more and more detuned over time if he doesn't tune it? In the OPs situation, I would definitely be considering N3X over C1X-TA2.

(Of course, the calculus changes if the OP plays without headphones more than 9% of the time.)


IMO, if 91% with headphone, N3x is waste not only for C1X TA2.
In this situation, N1x is enough.
But if consider playback out, transducer soundboard of TA2 is better than normal speakers in N3x obviously.
Remember buy new, not old for Japanese products.


CA98~~RME ADI2 DAC~~VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879857
08/15/19 10:25 AM
08/15/19 10:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 286
Europe - France
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enzo.sandrolini Offline
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Why not considering using VST with your N2 ?
I have a N2, and what I want to go with headphones, I use Pianoteq Or Ivory.
I indeed, cannot stand the internal sound of the N2 thru headphones, while it is Ok thru the internal speakers.

Cheers


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: robinlb] #2879858
08/15/19 10:26 AM
08/15/19 10:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,233
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by robinlb
Why not consider Yamaha C1X TA2?
Should be better than old N3X and Acoustic within DP 2in1.

But if the OP plays 91% with headphones and 9% without, why does get an acoustical piano at all? He'll have to be constantly tuning it just to be able to play his 9% without headphones. Let's even say the OP plays an hour a day, seven days a week. That means he plays on the order of 35 mins a week without headphones. Is all that tuning going to be worth 3.5 hours a month of piano playing? Or conversely, playing on a piano which gets more and more detuned over time if he doesn't tune it? In the OPs situation, I would definitely be considering N3X over C1X-TA2.

(Of course, the calculus changes if the OP plays without headphones more than 9% of the time.)


IMO, if 91% with headphone, N3x is waste not only for C1X TA2.
In this situation, N1x is enough.
But if consider playback out, transducer soundboard of TA2 is better than normal speakers in N3x obviously.
Remember buy new, not old for Japanese products.

Excellent point! For a person not using headphones only 9% of the time, the only things the N3X offers that might be relevant is the vibrating keys and the ivory-like key surfaces, both not worth the extra money. In fact the N1X has a Steinberg external audio interface which the N3X doesn't have.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879874
08/15/19 11:27 AM
08/15/19 11:27 AM
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Posts: 3,603
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Gombessa Offline
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10:1 sounds like a lot, but if you're playing the acoustic at volume once a week or so, it definitely makes sense to test the N3X against the N1X and see if the improved speakers and soundboard matter to you.

Also, since you're in the hybrid market, you might want to find the Kawai NV-10 and try that as well. We've had a couple of AvantGrand and acoustic owners switch over to the Novus on the strength of the action.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879886
08/15/19 12:09 PM
08/15/19 12:09 PM
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Pete14 Online content
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There’s also the GC1 TA2 as a cheaper alternative to the C1X TA2.
Also, regarding the N3X “soundboard”, can we really call it a soundboard? It seems more like a gimmick as compared to a real soundboard, or even compared to the Kawai soundboard/speaker system.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Pete14] #2879889
08/15/19 12:25 PM
08/15/19 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14

Also, regarding the N3X “soundboard”, can we really call it a soundboard? It seems more like a gimmick as compared to a real soundboard, or even compared to the Kawai soundboard/speaker system.


Shrug, no idea there. But the N3 is often credited with being over if, if not the best sounding DP available, so it's definitely got some chops in the amplification/speaker dept. Not sure how much is that is attributed to the soundboard...


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Pete14] #2879897
08/15/19 01:15 PM
08/15/19 01:15 PM
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robinlb Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
There’s also the GC1 TA2 as a cheaper alternative to the C1X TA2.
Also, regarding the N3X “soundboard”, can we really call it a soundboard? It seems more like a gimmick as compared to a real soundboard, or even compared to the Kawai soundboard/speaker system.


Socalled soundboard on N3x is only a vibrator that transmit some feelings to player, not real soundboard speaker on TA2/Aures or Kawai CA/CS.
I agree upright models like GC1TA2 or K500Aures also in the opinional range.
Of course, C1x/C3X TA2 more better.


CA98~~RME ADI2 DAC~~VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879901
08/15/19 01:30 PM
08/15/19 01:30 PM
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Pete14 Online content
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The GC1 TA2 is a baby grand (not an upright).
I believe the differences between it and the C1X TA2 have to do with better hammers, and perhaps other slight (strings?) refinements in the C1X TA2.
I’m not sure if there’s any difference in the soundboard and action between the two; if not, the GC1 TA2 offers the best value (if one will be using it mostly as a digital).

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879917
08/15/19 02:41 PM
08/15/19 02:41 PM
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Glendale, Ca.
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Dave Ferris Offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Cox
So my question is really for those who have played an older and new generation AvantGrand. Is the newer X series a significant upgrade over the prior generation AG?


For a short time, Keyboard Concepts had the NX3, N3 and N2 on the floor. The clarity and richness of the NX3 was overwhelmingly obvious within 30 seconds of playing them all.

I've always preferred the N2 to the N3 , but the N3X is a significant upgrade to both to my ears. It closer emulates a quality Acoustic grand experience. I could definitely put in some productive hours on the N3X -- even at a softer volume.

I just heard the speakers, I didn't use any phones.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
# 571692
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: robinlb] #2879919
08/15/19 02:43 PM
08/15/19 02:43 PM
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Great State of Texas
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vara411 Offline
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Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by Pete14
There’s also the GC1 TA2 as a cheaper alternative to the C1X TA2.
Also, regarding the N3X “soundboard”, can we really call it a soundboard? It seems more like a gimmick as compared to a real soundboard, or even compared to the Kawai soundboard/speaker system.


Socalled soundboard on N3x is only a vibrator that transmit some feelings to player, not real soundboard speaker on TA2/Aures or Kawai CA/CS.
I agree upright models like GC1TA2 or K500Aures also in the opinional range.
Of course, C1x/C3X TA2 more better.


Incorrect. The N3X does indeed have an actual soundboard, AND transducers that vibrate the keybed (mostly applicable with headphone use). I do echo everyone's sentiments about not bothering with the N3X if 90% of playing will be with headphones. The binaural CFX sampling sounds great on my N3X, but is that enough to trade up two pianos? Hmm... not so sure.


Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Patrick Cox] #2879994
08/15/19 06:29 PM
08/15/19 06:29 PM
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Pete14 Online content
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Just because Yamaha calls it a soundboard doesn’t make it a soundboard. Yes, I know that they use some form of transducer for the area closest to the music stand, but it’s a very small area as compared even to a modified -Kawai- soundboard.
At best, we can call it a mini-sound-thing. wink

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Pete14] #2880005
08/15/19 07:32 PM
08/15/19 07:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
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Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
At best, we can call it a mini-sound-thing. wink
Or a maxi-marketing thing.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Pete14] #2880011
08/15/19 07:48 PM
08/15/19 07:48 PM
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Great State of Texas
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vara411 Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14

At best, we can call it a mini-sound-thing. wink


Well then why didn't you just say so! We are now agreed. wink


Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N3X vs N2 [Re: Pete14] #2880025
08/15/19 09:04 PM
08/15/19 09:04 PM
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robinlb Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
The GC1 TA2 is a baby grand (not an upright).
I believe the differences between it and the C1X TA2 have to do with better hammers, and perhaps other slight (strings?) refinements in the C1X TA2.
I’m not sure if there’s any difference in the soundboard and action between the two; if not, the GC1 TA2 offers the best value (if one will be using it mostly as a digital).


Yes, it's my mistake and I took it for granted that should be U1/YU/TA2 upright series.
GC1TA2 is another good choice for the topic.
In my memory, keyboard action of N~series is developed from GC1?


CA98~~RME ADI2 DAC~~VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895
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