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Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879565
08/14/19 01:37 PM
08/14/19 01:37 PM
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Egret Offline OP
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Morten Olsson,
Yes, I think this is the case. People do not follow technology. And for many DP, it's still something like the very first synthesizers.

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Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879566
08/14/19 01:40 PM
08/14/19 01:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 65
New York
K
KL NY Offline
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Originally Posted by Egret
Thank you all very much.
I understand that the majority shares the point of view of my seller today: to buy cheaper, and then after 3-4 years to decide on the circumstances.
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. One teacher (not our, Thanks God) says that:
“everyone is very mistaken when they buy the piano easier and cheaper, and then if the child plays, then ... then they buy something better. He won’t play! If there’s no good instrument, then the child will never play. First a good instrument, and then ... maybe he will play, if talent, or maybe not "(lol)
But first a musical instrument.
At the same time, of course, she are only talking about acoustics, you can’t even pronounce DP (lol)
This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...
Therefore, I worry that there will be an insufficient instrument, she will not learn.
I can not afford acoustics for several reasons. This issue with great torment, I decided for myself))) will be the DP.
it seems too much rubbish in my head))))))


Haha I can relate to this, when we considered get a new DP, and talked to my daughter teacher, she had the look like "are you serious", Perhaps we are in NYC, so she kind of understand not everyone can put a acoustic in apt, she didnt really said much but told me how good a acoustic piano compare to DP. Yeah , I know.

I do agree with the teacher , instrument is very important. A decent instrument sound better and play better, it can really motivate people to play.

Re: DP for children [Re: KL NY] #2879568
08/14/19 02:17 PM
08/14/19 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 974
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LarryK Online content
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LarryK  Online Content
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Joined: Feb 2019
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New York City
Originally Posted by KL NY
Originally Posted by Egret
Thank you all very much.
I understand that the majority shares the point of view of my seller today: to buy cheaper, and then after 3-4 years to decide on the circumstances.
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. One teacher (not our, Thanks God) says that:
“everyone is very mistaken when they buy the piano easier and cheaper, and then if the child plays, then ... then they buy something better. He won’t play! If there’s no good instrument, then the child will never play. First a good instrument, and then ... maybe he will play, if talent, or maybe not "(lol)
But first a musical instrument.
At the same time, of course, she are only talking about acoustics, you can’t even pronounce DP (lol)
This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...
Therefore, I worry that there will be an insufficient instrument, she will not learn.
I can not afford acoustics for several reasons. This issue with great torment, I decided for myself))) will be the DP.
it seems too much rubbish in my head))))))


Haha I can relate to this, when we considered get a new DP, and talked to my daughter teacher, she had the look like "are you serious", Perhaps we are in NYC, so she kind of understand not everyone can put a acoustic in apt, she didnt really said much but told me how good a acoustic piano compare to DP. Yeah , I know.

I do agree with the teacher , instrument is very important. A decent instrument sound better and play better, it can really motivate people to play.



My Russian piano teacher pronounces DP as "GADGET." She certainly didn't have a fond opinion of my gadget, and so, I had her pick out an upright for me! The gadget has been sold and will be picked up tomorrow.

I live in a one bedroom apartment in New York City and I rented a Yamaha U1 silent piano from PianoPiano (https://pianopiano.com) for the next year and then I'll decide what to buy for the long haul.

I think every apartment can fit an upright piano. Sure, the neighbors, but if you don't practice past 10pm or before 9am, I don't think it should be a problem.

I'm enjoying playing more on the acoustic than I did on the digital piano. Mainly, I think it is the vibrations I feel through the keys when the hammers hit the strings, and the way the sound surrounds me and is not just being blasted into my ears with headphones.


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: DP for children [Re: LarryK] #2879571
08/14/19 02:27 PM
08/14/19 02:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 65
New York
K
KL NY Offline
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KL NY  Offline
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K

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 65
New York
Originally Posted by LarryK

My Russian piano teacher pronounces DP as "GADGET." She certainly didn't have a fond opinion of my gadget, and so, I had her pick out an upright for me! The gadget has been sold and will be picked up tomorrow.

I live in a one bedroom apartment in New York City and I rented a Yamaha U1 silent piano from PianoPiano (https://pianopiano.com) for the next year and then I'll decide what to buy for the long haul.

I think every apartment can fit an upright piano. Sure, the neighbors, but if you don't practice past 10pm or before 9am, I don't think it should be a problem.

I'm enjoying playing more on the acoustic than I did on the digital piano. Mainly, I think it is the vibrations I feel through the keys when the hammers hit the strings, and the way the sound surrounds me and is not just being blasted into my ears with headphones.





I check the pianopiano site, isnt it very expensive to rent for a year if not buy from them? the rent then own only apply the first 12 months of the rental to the piano..

Re: DP for children [Re: KL NY] #2879575
08/14/19 02:34 PM
08/14/19 02:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 974
New York City
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LarryK Online content
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 974
New York City
Originally Posted by KL NY
Originally Posted by LarryK

My Russian piano teacher pronounces DP as "GADGET." She certainly didn't have a fond opinion of my gadget, and so, I had her pick out an upright for me! The gadget has been sold and will be picked up tomorrow.

I live in a one bedroom apartment in New York City and I rented a Yamaha U1 silent piano from PianoPiano (https://pianopiano.com) for the next year and then I'll decide what to buy for the long haul.

I think every apartment can fit an upright piano. Sure, the neighbors, but if you don't practice past 10pm or before 9am, I don't think it should be a problem.

I'm enjoying playing more on the acoustic than I did on the digital piano. Mainly, I think it is the vibrations I feel through the keys when the hammers hit the strings, and the way the sound surrounds me and is not just being blasted into my ears with headphones.





I check the pianopiano site, isnt it very expensive to rent for a year if not buy from them? the rent then own only apply the first 12 months of the rental to the piano..



Well, I did rent a pretty expensive piano because I wanted to try out the silent feature, but it is much cheaper to rent an acoustic upright without the silent feature, down to $43-$125 a month, depending on the size of the piano.

As for whether it is expensive if you don't buy it, perhaps, but it is probably better than buying something you're not happy with or which is not played. I wonder how many pianos sit in homes, unplayed. A lot, I would say.

If I don't find myself using the silent feature much in the net year of playing, perhaps I will just buy an acoustic upright without that feature.

Last edited by LarryK; 08/14/19 02:35 PM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879718
08/15/19 05:23 AM
08/15/19 05:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 14
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Egret Offline OP
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No one knows if Roland plans to update the RP lineup?
It's a little depressing to buy not a new model...
And in a few months there will be a new model with improvements at the same price.
In this regard, YDP 164 is more justified, but, as written above, is not suitable for young children due to heavy action.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879769
08/15/19 06:41 AM
08/15/19 06:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,257
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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I wouldn't worry about a new model. There will ALWAYS be a new model. Always.

But the new model won't be much different than the old. The new one may have more features (maybe). But if you're worrying about features you ought not be buying a piano.

Any piano has all the features you need. There are 88 features and all pianos have them. Be concerned with touch and sound. Nothing else matters. Features don't matter. Forget about them.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879776
08/15/19 06:43 AM
08/15/19 06:43 AM
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Posts: 359
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Morten Olsson Offline
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Danmark
If you want something new and feel that the 164 is too hard (which may not be the case - has she tried it) then the 144 is a great instrument as well IMO.
And the built in audio interface really is great if your daughter wants to use iPad based learning such as Simply Piano.
If you don't care about iPad stuff then you can't go wrong with the Roland.

Re: DP for children [Re: MacMacMac] #2879813
08/15/19 08:03 AM
08/15/19 08:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
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jamiecw Offline
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UK
Originally Posted by MacMacMac

Any piano has all the features you need. There are 88 features and all pianos have them. Be concerned with touch and sound. Nothing else matters. Features don't matter. Forget about them.


+1

Mac is right - there is always a new model but much like a partner we (most of the times) prefer the one we've got. grin

At this point in time, with all current models considering, I'd be more concerned with getting started than waiting for the next model..we like playing music not playing the most recent piano, I have a 2.5 year old HP605 - I still love playing on it regardless of the fact that is has been superseded by a newer model.

Last edited by jamiecw; 08/15/19 08:04 AM.
Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879821
08/15/19 08:34 AM
08/15/19 08:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 14
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Egret Offline OP
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Egret  Offline OP
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OK
I won't think about it

probably, the feature set bothers me the least ...
do not think that it will be somehow really in demand at this stage.

The only question that still torments me is:
is there a difference in the action of the keys, in the sensations of playing (for a beginner and a child of course) in a piano of a different price league?
RP 501 (1200 DLL) and LX 705 (2200 DLL) for example?
Is it worth it to pay 1000 more or is it better not to empty the bank because the child doesn't feel the difference?
when I looked at the models, I liked the wooden keys more, purely tactile wood is nicer than plastic.
and this can be appreciated by the child (it was not for nothing that she liked HP 603 more than RP 501 (lol). But is that all? Will the remaining differences become clear to her only after 3-4 years of practice?

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879826
08/15/19 08:48 AM
08/15/19 08:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 184
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nicknameTaken Offline
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I tell you this: The Piano should fit to the student, like a pair of shoes. If the student doesn't like it, it won't motivate for long times.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879831
08/15/19 09:03 AM
08/15/19 09:03 AM
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caribou3 Offline
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Look at the new HP 704. It will have the same action as the Lx but less expensive. The 702 has the lower end action. Roland advertised this new line 702/704 for first time buyer (adult and kids).

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879833
08/15/19 09:17 AM
08/15/19 09:17 AM
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Posts: 515
UK
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jamiecw Offline
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UK
Originally Posted by Egret

The only question that still torments me is:
is there a difference in the action of the keys, in the sensations of playing (for a beginner and a child of course) in a piano of a different price league?
RP 501 (1200 DLL) and LX 705 (2200 DLL) for example?

There is a difference but this difference will not matter to a beginner - better action is appreciated once the pianist has advanced and is no longer considered a beginner. As a pianist progresses they tend to start learning and or practicing more advanced (difficult even) pieces that a better action will assist and compliment the player with said (advanced) pieces.

The PHA-4 on the RP501 is more than adequate for a beginner and it will only stagnate a players' ability way post the intermediate stages.

PS do not be mistaken that the extra 1000 more is just because of the action - for that extra 1000 on the LX705 you will get the latest sound engine which a lot here agree, sounds better, 4x more powerful speakers (vs 2x speakers on the 501), a traditional looking cabinet and the better action (and yes, to an intermediate/advanced player, the PHA50 action on the 705 is oodles better than the PHA-4 and they will most definitely appreciate the difference, to a beginner though I doubt it) and other features to justify the extra 1K price tag.

So, this goes back to my original email, you either start small and climb up (for example, 501 and if the child advances buy another piano once they get there) or you start big and cross your fingers the child wants to keep playing (this to me is a win if they stick with it because the more expensive piano means I do not have to spend money again - well until they start wanting a grand or an acoustic and that's another story:)).

It's a gamble - one that you and only you can make.

EDIT: PPS - the wood on the LX705 is strips of wood on either side of the key and it's just aesthetically nice but serves no other purpose, there are other pianos that have full wooden keys - the CLP645 has this on the white keys only and that makes the touch feel like it does on an acoustic. Either way, if one wants to learn the piano both types allow you to and do not contemplate too much on this.

Last edited by jamiecw; 08/15/19 09:25 AM.
Re: DP for children [Re: jamiecw] #2879836
08/15/19 09:31 AM
08/15/19 09:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,292
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by Egret

The only question that still torments me is:
is there a difference in the action of the keys, in the sensations of playing (for a beginner and a child of course) in a piano of a different price league?
RP 501 (1200 DLL) and LX 705 (2200 DLL) for example?

There is a difference but this difference will not matter to a beginner - better action is appreciated once the pianist has advanced and is no longer considered a beginner. As a pianist progresses they tend to start learning and or practicing more advanced (difficult even) pieces that a better action will assist and compliment the player with said (advanced) pieces.

However, in a culture where the acoustic piano is king, better keyboard action at least gets you in the game. I would agree with you except that the OP already described the environment he is in and what the piano teachers in that environment mostly think. Better action is approaching the action of an acoustic. Worse action is becoming less acoustic-like. The OP should really get the best action he can afford. Sound can be fixed with speakers and VSTs but the keyboard action will forever be the same as he took home on the first day.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: DP for children [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2879852
08/15/19 10:11 AM
08/15/19 10:11 AM
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jamiecw Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

..However, in a culture where the acoustic piano is king, better keyboard action at least gets you in the game..


That's fair enough - and furthermore, if the pockets dig deep getting the best is what I believe in.

I am wondering, if indeed acoustic is king, can you be absolutely certain that even the Hybrid NV5 will get you in the game or will the acoustic always prevail...I would think once a purist always a purist but then again I have never been and the few Russians I know do not play piano.

Re: DP for children [Re: jamiecw] #2879931
08/15/19 03:06 PM
08/15/19 03:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 507
Just outside London UK
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Originally Posted by jamiecw

I am wondering, if indeed acoustic is king, can you be absolutely certain that even the Hybrid NV5 will get you in the game or will the acoustic always prevail...I would think once a purist always a purist but then again I have never been and the few Russians I know do not play piano.


I haven't tried the NV5, but I doubt it. I've said this before, but I get to play an acoustic (upright - Knight K10) piano my father bought and I played on as a kid, but didn't touch in the intermediate time before my daughter had it in her house. I get to play it approximately once a month. Initially I didn't like as much as my Kawai CA67, but as my fingers got more sensitive, it started to really grow on me - mainly because of when playing one can feel the sound through the fingers and around and through your body.

Now I am aiming to purchase my own acoustic grand when my three year boundary of restarting is reached (Personal target - I have had many hobbies in my life, but apart from one - Programming, all have tapered off around the two year boundary never to restart). Before reaching that conclusion, I have had an opportunity to really try top end digitals (I live a short way away from Bonners Music in Reigate) side by side with acoustic grands. The ONLY piano to come close to being as pleasurable as an acoustic grand was the Novus NV10. I tried Kawai CS11, Roland LX17, Yamaha N1X as well. Only the N1X and the NV10 had an action that truely compared and although the Novus sound was good it still wasn't quite there for me.

So I have come to the inconvenient (for my wife - and for the remodelling of my dining room) conclusion that at my age I deserve to play as much as I can on an acoustic grand and keep my CA67 for practicing on with headphones

Last edited by akc42; 08/15/19 03:08 PM.
Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879939
08/15/19 03:52 PM
08/15/19 03:52 PM
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Posts: 384
UK
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ZeroZero Offline
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I am not a teacher, I really dont know the piano market however I would like to make a couple of points. Buying too cheap for a child can be a big mistake. The reason a good piano is good is because it responds to you, it gives something back to the player, even a child can feel this. Playing an unresponsive piano can kill a child's eagerness to learn. Having said this, there are some really good pianos these days that are very reasonable price. Get some advice from a large music store, such as Digital VIllage. I second the vote for Roland above

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879947
08/15/19 04:14 PM
08/15/19 04:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 974
New York City
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LarryK Online content
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New York City
I discovered that it was easier to sell my wife on putting an acoustic upright in the living room than it was to convince her to let a DP go in the same space. A beautifully finished upright looks good as a piece of furniture, while most DPs do not look good in that way. It has to do with the cheap cabinets used in DPs and the fact that they’re small, which to my mind is not a good thing because all pianos are about the same length, it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.

Last edited by LarryK; 08/15/19 04:15 PM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: DP for children [Re: LarryK] #2879948
08/15/19 04:18 PM
08/15/19 04:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,292
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by LarryK
...it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.

Depends on the style. When every inch counts like the interior re-design I just kicked off, vertical space also matters. For example, my designer talked to me today about putting my queen bed on a 6' platform to recover the space under it. I never had a bunk bed as a child but I get to call dibs on the top bunk as an adult! Woot!


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: DP for children [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2879956
08/15/19 04:38 PM
08/15/19 04:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 974
New York City
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LarryK Online content
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LarryK  Online Content
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Joined: Feb 2019
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New York City
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
...it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.

Depends on the style. When every inch counts like the interior re-design I just kicked off, vertical space also matters. For example, my designer talked to me today about putting my queen bed on a 6' platform to recover the space under it. I never had a bunk bed as a child but I get to call dibs on the top bunk as an adult! Woot!


Once, we stayed in a friend’s apartment in Paris while they were out of town. We discovered that the bed was a little over a foot from the ceiling. It was a miserable way to sleep because we couldn’t sit up, and we risked breaking a leg getting up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. If you have 8’ ceilings, you’ll only have two feet to sit up in. I wouldn’t recommend a raised bed.

When our friends got back to Paris, I committed a terrible faux pas by making a joke about that horrible bed, and that ended the friendship. They were German and sensitive to slights. I shouldn’t have spoken the truth, it slipped out as a joke but it didn’t go over well.

I just meant that, generally speaking, if you have the length for a keyboard instrument, you’ll have the depth and height, at least, I do in NYC.

Last edited by LarryK; 08/15/19 04:41 PM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
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