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Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
9190 #2870383 07/18/19 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by doudou
Kawai MP11 on K&M 18950 : 76,5 cm
[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by Abby Pianoman
I was referring to my K&M 18950 though. Cutting 5 Centimetres from each leg would give it a floor to keys height of 71 Centimetres. Which some consider to be a perfect height.

Originally Posted by 9190
The problem is K&M 18950 is too high even in its minimum height. And if you will put such keyboards like MP11 on it, the keyboard's level will be higher, than keyboards on most real acoustic pianos. That's why I wouldn't recommend this keyboard stand for real pianists. And I saw a lot of comments on this forum from people who complain about this issue. I'm sure that is K&M's fault.

That's why, like some people here, I would recommend K&M 18953 instead of K&M 18950. I wrote with more details here .

Upd: Oh, that's also for kids? The more do not recommend 18950!

Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I'm considering buying K&M 18950 stand now and I'm a little bit confused with the cited posts and I need an explanation.

On the manufacturer's site it's written that the minimum height of K&M 18950 is 60 cm, exactly the same as of K&M 18953.
https://www.k-m.de/en/products/keyb...0-table-style-keyboard-stand-black?c=171
https://www.k-m.de/en/products/keyb...able-style-stage-piano-stand-black?c=171
Can someone confirm this minimum height for 18950?

If it's true then 60 cm + 13 cm (MP11's height from bottom to white keys surface) = 73 cm.
73 cm seems ok, it's an upper limit of what is considered standard for a concert grand (710-735 mm). But then I dont' understand why @doudou and @Abby Pianoman mention 76-76,5 cm in their posts above. Any ideas?

Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Iaroslav Vasiliev #2870406 07/18/19 05:44 PM
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Добрый вечер, соотечественник.
That's probably because after my numerous Email attacks with criticism to them, they finally fixed that issue with too high minimum height (before the minimum height of K&M 18950 stand was 67 cm). In my Emails I provided to them many links to some posts on this forum, where people had issues with this, and my own thoughts and arguments as well. I won't bring here copies of my long Emails, but here are some K&M responds to me:

Quote
February 9, 2015:
Hello [my name],
thank you very much for your efforts. It helps a lot.
We will discuss this topic with r&d department as soon as possible.

kind regards
Michael Wamser
Product Manager / Customer Support


Quote
March 9, 2015:
Dear [my name],
thank you for your email and feedback regarding the keyboard table stand 18950.

Indeed this issue regarding the height is currently hitting us two three times. That’s why we are working on a solution for the future.

Nevertheless we sell this stand more than 20 years very successfully.

Thank you again for your interesting information.
We will keep you updated as soon as we will launch a new min. height.

kind regards
Michael Wamser
Product Manager / Customer Support


So, again, probably that long-term issue with K&M 18950 stand has finally been fixed. That's good to know.

Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
9190 #2870410 07/18/19 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 9190
Добрый вечер, соотечественник.
That's probably because after my numerous Email attacks with criticism to them, they finally fixed that issue with too high minimum height (before the minimum height of K&M 18950 stand was 67 cm). In my Emails I provided to them many links to some posts on this forum, where people had issues with this, and my own thoughts and arguments as well. I won't bring here copies of my long Emails, but here are some K&M responds to me:

Quote
February 9, 2015:
Hello [my name],
thank you very much for your efforts. It helps a lot.
We will discuss this topic with r&d department as soon as possible.

kind regards
Michael Wamser
Product Manager / Customer Support


Quote
March 9, 2015:
Dear [my name],
thank you for your email and feedback regarding the keyboard table stand 18950.

Indeed this issue regarding the height is currently hitting us two three times. That’s why we are working on a solution for the future.

Nevertheless we sell this stand more than 20 years very successfully.

Thank you again for your interesting information.
We will keep you updated as soon as we will launch a new min. height.

kind regards
Michael Wamser
Product Manager / Customer Support


So, again, probably that long-term issue with K&M 18950 stand has finally been fixed. That's good to know.

Wait a minute, I bought an 18953 based on your thread for my VPC-1. Are you telling me I could gotten the 18950 and it would have fit even better? cry

I have no problems with the 18953. It's as stable as a rock!

Last edited by Jethro; 07/18/19 05:56 PM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Jethro #2870418 07/18/19 06:17 PM
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Jethro, I didn't know that they fixed this flaw since I had not been following the stands for a long time (going to come back to consoles in future). They also didn't inform me, as promised. But in any case, many people use 18953 with their VPC1, MP11 etc. And, as you rightly pointed out, they are great for each other.


KAWAI MP7; K&M 18953; Wenger Preface Conductor's Stand
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Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
9190 #2870526 07/19/19 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 9190
Добрый вечер, соотечественник.
That's probably because after my numerous Email attacks with criticism to them, they finally fixed that issue with too high minimum height (before the minimum height of K&M 18950 stand was 67 cm). In my Emails I provided to them many links to some posts on this forum, where people had issues with this, and my own thoughts and arguments as well. I won't bring here copies of my long Emails, but here are some K&M responds to me:

Quote
February 9, 2015:
Hello [my name],
thank you very much for your efforts. It helps a lot.
We will discuss this topic with r&d department as soon as possible.

kind regards
Michael Wamser
Product Manager / Customer Support


Quote
March 9, 2015:
Dear [my name],
thank you for your email and feedback regarding the keyboard table stand 18950.

Indeed this issue regarding the height is currently hitting us two three times. That’s why we are working on a solution for the future.

Nevertheless we sell this stand more than 20 years very successfully.

Thank you again for your interesting information.
We will keep you updated as soon as we will launch a new min. height.

kind regards
Michael Wamser
Product Manager / Customer Support


So, again, probably that long-term issue with K&M 18950 stand has finally been fixed. That's good to know.

Спасибо, соотечественник! smile

It's so cool to know that manufacturers pay attention to clients' feedback. My respect to K&M.

Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Nate32 #2870649 07/19/19 02:21 PM
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One more thing: if your keyboard is going to be on a hard floor, you will need something to keep the pedals from sliding around. A piece of neoprene rubber underneath works well. I got one off Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06ZZZ5W1L/ref=dp_cerb_3

Enjoy!


Kawai MP11SE
souped up Kawai GL10
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Nate32 #2870672 07/19/19 03:55 PM
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I own one of the K&M Omega style stands and it is also rock solid with the same weight support specs as the table stands discussed above. K&M arguably makes the best stands in the industry, but they are not inexpensive. I think On Stage stands provide the best value.

For a cheaper option, another rock solid option is the On Stage KS7350. Its street price has risen in recent years but it still can be found for under 100 US$. I also own one of these stands.

On Stage also has a table stand, the KS7150 that I expect is similarly rock solid but I’ve not personally used it. It can be found for under 80 US$ and actually has a deeper tabletop than the K&M tabletop stands (5.75 cm deeper). I expect it also will go lower than the competing K&M stands.


My chronological list of the top 20 composers: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Wagner, Verdi, Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Debussy, Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich.
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Nate32 #2870711 07/19/19 06:17 PM
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I can vouch for the Omega - got it for a VPC1 and currently using it for an ES8. Looks good and is solid. At about €120 I didn’t find it that expensive for what it is.

Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Nate32 #2870759 07/19/19 09:02 PM
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K&M stands must be cheaper in Europe than in the US. The Omega 18810 is $220 in the US. I think it was $180 when I purchased it 7 years ago. The On Stage KS7350 was $60 at that time.


My chronological list of the top 20 composers: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Wagner, Verdi, Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Debussy, Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich.
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Sweelinck #2870842 07/20/19 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
On Stage also has a table stand, the KS7150 that I expect is similarly rock solid but I’ve not personally used it. It can be found for under 80 US$ and actually has a deeper tabletop than the K&M tabletop stands (5.75 cm deeper). I expect it also will go lower than the competing K&M stands.

ONSTAGE KS7150 can't go lower, it's minimum height is 66 cm. The same is for PROEL EL260.

Concerning ONSTAGE KS7350, doesn't its middle section hinder your legs?

One more stand probably to consider is ONSTAGE WS8540 (80$ on Amazon). What do you think about it?
https://on-stage.com/products/view/12854/202406
Min Height 61 cm
Max Width 73 cm (53% of MP11's width, which is 138 cm)
Min Depth 35 cm
Weight Capacity 136 kg

Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Nate32 #2871327 07/21/19 11:36 PM
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Quote

Concerning ONSTAGE KS7350, doesn't its middle section hinder your legs?

Because of how it angles, I have not found that to be a problem, but you would have to try it. I have used it at different times to support a Roland Jupiter-50 and Roland Juno Stage and used sustain pedals with both of them.

The K&M Omega is nice because there are not even front legs to get in the way like there are with table stands. Generally On Stage stands are very sturdy, but not as finely machined as K&M stands. K&M is probably the only manufacturer of an X-stand I would trust with a keyboard, but I don’t like X-stands generally.

The WS8540 is not suitable for a keyboard. It is useful for midi tone modules, mixers, and stackable electronic devices like a CD player in general.


My chronological list of the top 20 composers: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Wagner, Verdi, Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Debussy, Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich.
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Sweelinck #2871596 07/22/19 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Because of how it angles, I have not found that to be a problem, but you would have to try it. I have used it at different times to support a Roland Jupiter-50 and Roland Juno Stage and used sustain pedals with both of them.

I see. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The WS8540 is not suitable for a keyboard. It is useful for midi tone modules, mixers, and stackable electronic devices like a CD player in general.

You think it's too narrow for MP11? I see there is a wider version: ONSTAGE WS8550
https://on-stage.com/products/view/12820/459134
Seems to be a perfect fit for MP11's dimensions.


CORRECTION for future readers:
MP11 height from the bottom to the surface of white keys is 105 mm
But the 4 rubber legs of MP11 are located so wide apart that none of the stands mentioned in this thread is wide enough to contain them, so it may be more appropriate to say that MP11's height is 92 mm (excluding rubber legs)

Last edited by Iaroslav Vasiliev; 07/22/19 07:36 PM.
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Nate32 #2871629 07/22/19 08:52 PM
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I’m not sure about the WS8540/8550. I thought I owned the WS8540 based on the picture, but I have a similar-looking product from QuikLok. It does not look convenient to me for a large, heavy keyboard, stability aside.


My chronological list of the top 20 composers: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Wagner, Verdi, Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Debussy, Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich.
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Sweelinck #2877883 08/09/19 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
I’m not sure about the WS8540/8550. I thought I owned the WS8540 based on the picture, but I have a similar-looking product from QuikLok. It does not look convenient to me for a large, heavy keyboard, stability aside.

You was absolutely right, Sweelinck. Yesterday I had a chance to test that WS8550 and I was not fully satisfied with it. It wobbles a little bit. The cause is the mechanism that fastens extending legs, it's not 100% firm and it allows keyboard to move a little bit to the left and right when playing ff. Under the weight of Mp11 it moves probably just for 5 mm, but still it's not perfect. Wobbling becomes worse when legs are extended.

Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Nate32 #2879641 08/14/19 08:55 PM
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The 18810 is the most stable stand I've came across...if you let it down to the bottom it should get u close to ac pno height with the MP11...I checked a lot of stands and most wouldn't get it down low enough...I can't remember what height as I actually returned the MP11 for a RD2000, but it wasn't bad. They have a fold up version (18820) and electric one (that goes up and down itself) now also (18800 Omega-E); it looks cool, silly money though.

Last edited by Spno; 08/14/19 09:01 PM.
Re: Kawai MP11 stands?
Spno #2879686 08/15/19 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Spno
The 18810 is the most stable stand I've came across...if you let it down to the bottom it should get u close to ac pno height with the MP11...I checked a lot of stands and most wouldn't get it down low enough...I can't remember what height as I actually returned the MP11 for a RD2000, but it wasn't bad. They have a fold up version (18820) and electric one (that goes up and down itself) now also (18800 Omega-E); it looks cool, silly money though.


I agree. I use a 18810 for my MP11SE with 18811 stacker on top for a clonewheel. I bought the 18810 after the MP11SE was too high to play comfortably. It is a stable stand. One thing to consider if you're going to use the stackers for 2nd and 3rd tier is that in my case, putting a 61-key Viscount Legend Solo on 2nd tier, is that the 18811s block a port. Don't remember which from the top of my head, but there's no config of the 18810 + 18811s that does not block some port or another on the back. You can however configure the 18811s so that the 2nd tier won't block access too the MP11SE's controls. I was worried a bit about that, as the MP11SE is pretty deep.

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