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Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand #2878163
08/09/19 08:11 PM
08/09/19 08:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Boynton Beach, FL
Fantine56 Offline OP
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Fantine56  Offline OP
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Boynton Beach, FL
I purchased a new Kawai GL-10 baby grand in May (it's manufactured in Indonesia). The dealer is the largest Kawai dealer in south Florida and is regarded as a reputable.

After a few weeks, a buzz developed on the left-hand side of the piano. The dealer's piano service tech (who I think is very diligent) tried to fix it twice. He told me that he isolated the problem in the wood piece that runs horizontally in front of and below the keyboard (if he told me the name of this piece, I've forgotten it). If I understood what he was saying, there's a metal rod in that wood piece and if it's not cut to precise length, it can vibrate. After two failed attempts to fix the piano, the dealer agreed to exchange the piano for me, as they had gotten a shipment of three and had one on hand.

Fast forward to the new piano. I've had it about two weeks, it has been tuned, but now it has developed a high-pitched ringing when the G above middle C is struck. The piano tech is coming back on Tuesday to figure out WTH is going on.

I'm pretty depressed about the whole situation. I saved for months to purchase a baby grand, and so far, it's been a disaster. First the buzzing, now the ringing. The sound is very distracting when I practice, and I dread the possibility that I would have to get a third exchange, even if the dealer is willing to do that.

Does anybody have any ideas what is going on with the ringing? The new piano's serial number is only two number away from the first piano, which leads me to think there is problem with quality control in the factory. I'd love any suggestions or comments. Thank you.

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Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2878176
08/09/19 09:16 PM
08/09/19 09:16 PM
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Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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Chances are it is simply an errant damper felt somewhere. Either on the note itself or a lower note that is ringing sympathetically. Probably an easy fix.

Question: Is the ringing at the SAME pitch as the note played, or is it a higher (or different) pitch? It is possible itbis coming from a higher note too.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 08/09/19 09:18 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2878178
08/09/19 09:57 PM
08/09/19 09:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Boynton Beach, FL
Fantine56 Offline OP
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I think it’s a higher pitch.

Is it unusual for a new piano to have these issues?

Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2878184
08/09/19 11:02 PM
08/09/19 11:02 PM
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P W Grey Offline
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Well...yes and no.

How's that for a comprehensive answer?

The buzz is something that is almost totally unforeseeable. Buzzes happen in pianos because everything is vibrating. Sometimes the difference between something buzzing and not buzzing boils down to as little as .001". Plus, it could be dependent on relative humidity. There is a reasonably good chance that the buzz did not exist (audibly) at either the factory or the dealers showroom, and it just happens to occur at the relative humidity level in existence at your home. You just have to find it and fix it. Remember that there are literally better than 10,000 parts in your piano. Imperfect humans built it. Stuff happens.

On the ringing...once again it is possible that it did not exist prior to being moved to your home. Maybe someone accidentally hit something (like a damper head) in the move, or it could be that it just was not noticed. Depending on exactly what is causing it, the tech should be able to figure it out and take care of it.

Was it ringing BEFORE it was tuned, or only after? It could be a high undamped note frequency, now ringing sympathetically with a partial on the G. If it only happened after tuning it is likely.a result of the tuning and can be found and stopped one way or another. It could also be a longitudinal wave form (that would be harder to fix).

Dampers in a piano can be very finicky and very sensitive. Again, stuff happens. Let us know what the tech says.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 08/09/19 11:03 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2878280
08/10/19 09:11 AM
08/10/19 09:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Boynton Beach, FL
Fantine56 Offline OP
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Fantine56  Offline OP
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Boynton Beach, FL
The piano did not ring before it was tuned, but it was delivered to me in need of a tuning. Even my amateur ear could hear that. I completely understand that pianos can easily go out of tune when they are moved from a hot truck in south Florida to an air conditioned home in the summer. Luckily, my A/C keeps the humidity level in the house a constant 40-41%.

I'm going to call the dealer today and tell them that their tech has to come back for this issue, and hopefully, they will consider it part of the initial free tuning. Thank you for your input.

Last edited by Fantine56; 08/10/19 09:16 AM.
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2878320
08/10/19 01:52 PM
08/10/19 01:52 PM
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New Hampshire
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Delivery in need of tuning is SOP. The tuner should be able to track down the source within a few minutes. What will you do though, if it turns out that it is actually part of the normal sound of the piano? It is not uncommon for a pianist to question why certain notes in the treble start ringing when the ones right next to them do not. Then when it is shown to them that the dampers stop right there and everything above that point rings by itself they say: "Oh, I didn't know that".

That may not be the case with you, however it is possible that there is some correlation here. We shall see.

Of course...no buzz sounds belong in a piano. That's a given.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 08/10/19 01:53 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2879594
08/14/19 04:26 PM
08/14/19 04:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Boynton Beach, FL
Fantine56 Offline OP
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OK, so the tuner came yesterday, and basically told me that the piano is supposed to sound that way, and there wasn't anything he could do about it. He implied that I didn't know how a piano should sound, and that if my teacher didn't hear anything wrong with it, then there wasn't anything wrong with the piano. I pointed out that I went to my teacher for lessons, and he shrugged. In short, nothing got accomplished. I'll look for another tuner, preferably a RPT.

Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2879603
08/14/19 04:53 PM
08/14/19 04:53 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,550
Florida
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Originally Posted by Fantine56
OK, so the tuner came yesterday, and basically told me that the piano is supposed to sound that way, and there wasn't anything he could do about it. He implied that I didn't know how a piano should sound, and that if my teacher didn't hear anything wrong with it, then there wasn't anything wrong with the piano. I pointed out that I went to my teacher for lessons, and he shrugged. In short, nothing got accomplished. I'll look for another tuner, preferably a RPT.


One of our PW piano teachers also lives in Boynton Beach . You might want to drop her a PM and see if she can recommend a tech

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/users/22302/morodiene.html

Last edited by dogperson; 08/14/19 04:54 PM.

"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2879928
08/15/19 02:59 PM
08/15/19 02:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,534
Southeast US
ShiroKuro Offline
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Is it possible that there is something in the room (some metallic) that is responding to that particular note (or its frequency)? I had a problem with a particular note causing a fairly unpleasant buzzing noise. My tuner at the time worked with me and we tried all kinds of things.

Then in a moment of divine inspiration, I took the floor lamp, that was next to the piano, and moved it about 1 centimeter farther away from the piano. The ringing stopped.

My tuner and I shared a good laugh!

So, your problem may not be something external to the piano, but it might, so it's worth experimenting.

The other thing is that, this is a new piano right? It will change over time. Also, back to the humidity question, that may be influencing it more than you realize, so keep your eye on that.

Finally, I would say, believe, have faith, that this will be restored or that the piano will "grow" out of it, because the piano will change subtly every time it's tuned, and each time it will get a little better. I'm sure that, eventually, you'll be able to get rid of that buzzing!

Good luck!


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

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Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2879934
08/15/19 03:21 PM
08/15/19 03:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 159
Portland, Oregon, USA
Emery Wang Online content
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Light bulbs are also a culprit for me. Either the lamp next to the piano, or the recessed bulb in the ceiling above.


Kawai MP11SE
Kawai GL10
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2880064
08/16/19 03:28 AM
08/16/19 03:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
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North Vancouver
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Perhaps the coiled end of the string is vibrating .This happened to a friend.The technician wrapped the end of the string up or something and it stopped the ringing totally.Suggested this to the technician.

Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2880121
08/16/19 08:01 AM
08/16/19 08:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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Fantine56,

What were you playing on prior to purchasing this Kawai?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: P W Grey] #2880768
08/18/19 12:24 AM
08/18/19 12:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Boynton Beach, FL
Fantine56 Offline OP
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Fantine56  Offline OP
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Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by P W Grey
Fantine56,

What were you playing on prior to purchasing this Kawai?

Pwg


Only stringed instruments. I’m an adult beginner and this is my first piano.

Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2880835
08/18/19 07:39 AM
08/18/19 07:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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It is very common for a beginner to question why strings up above about note 67 or so ring without stopping, whereas the notes right below do not. The reason is simple in that there are no dampers on those notes higher up...as part of the design. Every piano on the planet has this feature. There are good reasons for it.

These strings will ring sympathetically with notes played below (particularly when it is well in tune) as will any wire segments that are not muted off. This includes wire between the tuning pins and speaking length, as well as any rear segments left unmuted according to the specific model and design of the piano.

If there is one note in particular that seems to be annoying this can usually be dealt with by finding the offending string(s) and muting them. Occaisionally entire sections of wire need to be muted. This is done on a case by case basis.

In general, piano makers attempt to design their instruments for maximum resonance. Maybe you prefer a somewhat less resonant sound? It is possible. If you trust another musician's judgement you might have him/her come over and give their opinion and evaluate that before getting into a war with the dealer. Just a suggestion.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2880844
08/18/19 08:25 AM
08/18/19 08:25 AM
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I would put in another vote for having an experienced pianist come over and listen with you. When I first got my acoustic I heard all kinds of sounds that I thought were some kind of problem. I asked my music teacher to come over and listen to it and he told me it was beautiful, that's what a piano is supposed to sound like.
Are you able to make a recording of the sounds you hear? That would help a lot making a diagnosis.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2880933
08/18/19 12:41 PM
08/18/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Boynton Beach, FL
Fantine56 Offline OP
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Fantine56  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2019
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Boynton Beach, FL
I want to thank everyone who responded to help me. I did move both lamps out of the piano room, and the ringing persists.

I have gotten a few names of piano tuners in the area that I will be calling in the near future, although I don't think that any of them are RPTs.

My late mother's cousin is an excellent pianist and has the best ear I've seen -- she can go to a musical that she's never heard before and come home and play the score by heart. I will get her over here to listen once she returns from her summer refuge up North.

I liked Peter's suggestion of muting the offending string (it appears to be the middle string for G above middle C). I'll talk to the tuner when he comes over.

I'm not sure how much help my piano teacher will be. While I think she's a great choice for a beginner like me, she has only digital instruments in her house, so I'm not sure how well she would be able to evaluate an acoustic piano.

Again, I really appreciate all the input from everyone. I'll post updates as they occur.

Last edited by Fantine56; 08/18/19 12:42 PM.
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2880952
08/18/19 01:21 PM
08/18/19 01:21 PM
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New Hampshire
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You would be correct in your assessment about your teacher given the circumstances.


Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: P W Grey] #2880986
08/18/19 02:30 PM
08/18/19 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
You would be correct in your assessment about your teacher given the circumstances.


Pwg

Hear Hear.

Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2881684
08/20/19 02:55 PM
08/20/19 02:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Boynton Beach, FL
Fantine56 Offline OP
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Re: Need help w/ Kawai GL-10 baby grand [Re: Fantine56] #2881738
08/20/19 04:54 PM
08/20/19 04:54 PM
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Portland, Oregon, USA
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Can't open for some reason, says "Owner prevented downloads for this audio file."


Kawai MP11SE
Kawai GL10
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