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DP for children #2879472
08/14/19 07:58 AM
08/14/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 14
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Egret Offline OP
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Egret  Offline OP
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Guys help please advice.
A very difficult choice for a non-musician (lol).
I have been choosing the piano for a young beginner pianist for a very long time. My daughter is only 6.5 years old. She takes her first steps. And there is no certainty how far it will go along this road.
Initially, I considered ROLAND RP 501 (on the advice of my friend). Then in the store (on the advice of the local inhabitants) both of us liked the Roland HP 603 and 605. Although ... this is very arbitrary, since they all seemed the same to us, honestly))))
But I began to consider more expensive options: the HP series , new LX 705 in Roland, may be a Yamaha CLP 645.
And I was almost ready to give 2,000 euros for the piano.
But the seller today made me doubt, said that we should take it cheaper.
YDP 164 Yamaha or ROLAND RP 501 more than meet my needs.
"The experiment must be justified. 1000 euros is normal, 2000 euros is too expensive for the experiment.
And if the lessons become really serious, you will have to buy an acoustic piano".
This is seductive.
But it bothers me if training on a simpler piano in general affects skills?
Is it possible to learn a child (put her hands correctly / start enjoying music and sound) on simpler pianos? Is the child really the first 2-3 years of education will not feel the difference between DP for 1000 or 2000?
after 3-4 years of practice the piano will have to be updated ... this is unnecessary trouble, but will new technologies appear?
I don’t want to pay money for excess, but I don’t want to regret that we did not pay for enough. Miser pays twice.

Sorry for such a long text, but I already want to remove this problem from myself.

I'll be really grateful to everyone for any opinion and reasoning.

PS: we only consider the cabinets, the slabs in her opinion is not a real piano at all.

Last edited by Egret; 08/14/19 08:01 AM.
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Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879474
08/14/19 08:23 AM
08/14/19 08:23 AM
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Posts: 401
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Morten Olsson Offline
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If you like the Rolands then I say buy a Roland - you really can't go wrong with them.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879475
08/14/19 08:32 AM
08/14/19 08:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
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jamiecw Offline
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Hi,

I hope you get plenty of replies and advice but if I have to make one (advice), please do not buy the Yamaha YDP164 - the action, especially for a child, is too heavy (it's heavy for some adults even) and I would not want my child learning on that.

Here goes another suggestion, if you are more worried about the experiment not lasting, the R501R would be my choice because it has good action and the sound, for a learner, is adequate enough. In this scenario, and if your child carries on with lessons, you'd probably look for an upgrade in 3-5 years as an average (depending on how quickly they progress).

If you are more worried about training on the right piano and not worried as much if the experiment (your child does not want to learn anymore) does not last, then I would look towards either the HP603/605 or LX 705 (in order of how deep are you willing to dig into your pockets). Personally, the 603 would be fine with the scope of upgrading to an acoustic long into the future or the LX705 if you rather stick with digitals.

PS I advice the Roland because in my view, because they model the sound, this allows for better expression and any teacher worth half their salt will tell you that playing music is not just about pressing the right notes but how you convey and express the piece you are playing - ergo modelled sound in digital pianos give you the best chance to achieve this.

My two cents..

Last edited by jamiecw; 08/14/19 08:33 AM.
Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879479
08/14/19 08:41 AM
08/14/19 08:41 AM
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Posts: 401
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Morten Olsson Offline
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I agree that if you want a Yamaha and it's for a young child you should maybe consider the YDP-144 for the softer action.
I tried out a 144 recently and I though it sounded great. If I'm not mistaken it has the added benefit of a built in audio interface which could be a great addition for a child if you want to try using stuff like "Simply Piano" - my 7 year old loved Simply Piano for a while until she lost interest with the whole thing that is :-)

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879484
08/14/19 09:01 AM
08/14/19 09:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,033
Finland
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clothearednincompo Offline
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Originally Posted by Egret
[...] will new technologies appear?


Always.

But acoustic pianos have remained the same for the last 100 years or so and most modern digital pianos are already quite good imitations of the real thing.

Any of the Kawai models could also be a candidate for a moderately priced beginner/intermediate digital piano.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879498
08/14/19 10:00 AM
08/14/19 10:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 14
E
Egret Offline OP
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Egret  Offline OP
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thanx for help.
I cross out Yamaha YDP164, but what about CLP 645? too heavy action?

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879500
08/14/19 10:06 AM
08/14/19 10:06 AM
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Posts: 401
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Morten Olsson Offline
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Pretty expensive for a child that may or may not stay interested but a very nice instrument indeed.

I myself find the key action uncomfortable and a bit stiff in the initial movement - don't know if I would call it "heavy" exactly but there are definitely other actions that are "easier" to play.

The whole action thing is very subjective and I wouldn't get too hung up on it - I think any weighted action from a major player such as Yamaha, Roland, Casio or Kawai will be just fine but as a rule the Yamahas may feel a bit stiffer / heavier except for the cheapest ones like the P125 / YDP-144.

Again - if you liked the Rolands then get one of those - they are excellent instruments and should serve you for years.

Cheers

Re: DP for children [Re: Morten Olsson] #2879503
08/14/19 10:12 AM
08/14/19 10:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 185
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nicknameTaken Offline
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Yes, I'd rather take a Roland for 'abuse' rather than any other Piano smile
They are more sturdy imo.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879506
08/14/19 10:25 AM
08/14/19 10:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 500
magicpiano Offline
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As others already suggested, I would add Kawai digital pianos to the list of candidates. But I would consider Casio instruments too. Here in Europe they are much cheaper than the DPs of other brands, but the overall quality is comparable. Between € 900 and € 1000 you can buy a Casio AP-470 that is not bad at all, and it is a cabinet style piano. To me, spend € 2000 when you don't know if your daughter will continue with the piano is a little too much.

Personally, in your place, I would spend not more than € 5-600 for a slab piano (something like a Yamaha P125 or a Roland FP-30 are good products) and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road, I would sell the slab piano and upgrade to a better cabinet-style one (or maybe an acoustic!). And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.

Re: DP for children [Re: magicpiano] #2879509
08/14/19 10:32 AM
08/14/19 10:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,106
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Personally, in your place, I would spend not more than € 5-600 for a slab piano (something like a Yamaha P125 or a Roland FP-30 are good products) and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road, I would sell the slab piano and upgrade to a better cabinet-style one (or maybe an acoustic!).

+1

Quote
And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.

+1!!!! thumb


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: DP for children [Re: magicpiano] #2879517
08/14/19 11:00 AM
08/14/19 11:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,464
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,464
Raleigh, North Carolina
I think this makes sense:
Originally Posted by magicpiano
I would spend not more than € 5-600 for a slab piano (something like a Yamaha P125 or a Roland FP-30 are good products) and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road, I would sell the slab piano and upgrade to a better cabinet-style one (or maybe an acoustic!). And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.
I went that route thirty years ago ... except the "child" in question was not a child. She was my wife. And the student "quit", and I became the substitute.

We only spend $200 on a cheap Casio.

Seven years later came a $3500 used Kawai upright. And twelve years later a Yamaha Clavinova.

Re: DP for children [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2879522
08/14/19 11:18 AM
08/14/19 11:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
J
jamiecw Offline
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jamiecw  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
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UK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


Quote
And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.

+1!!!! thumb


Really? Great advice in principle, less so in practice, unless this 6 yr old has been playing piano since 2-3 yrs old and is Yuja Wang in the making I'd be surprised if they can tell the difference between actions let alone sound timbres...

Re: DP for children [Re: jamiecw] #2879532
08/14/19 11:58 AM
08/14/19 11:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,106
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2018
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Originally Posted by jamiecw
Really? Great advice in principle, less so in practice, unless this 6 yr old has been playing piano since 2-3 yrs old and is Yuja Wang in the making I'd be surprised if they can tell the difference between actions let alone sound timbres...

Remember, magicpiano said, "...and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road,.." This child is 6.5 now and in "some years" will be 9-10. A great age to be assessing keyboard feel. When I bought my N1X, there were a number of families in the showroom with their kids trying out the different piano keyboards.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879533
08/14/19 11:59 AM
08/14/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 68
New York
K
KL NY Offline
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New York
Have you check any used piano in your area?
I bought a used YDP-140 about ... 6-7 years ago and just upgrade to a Kawai CA58 recently. The YDP140 served us well, my daughter still taking lesson. I dont think you need acoustic to play well. And it depend on why you want her to play. Some parents want their kids to pass grade 8 exams. To me , I just want my children know to play piano, enjoy the music, it not that matter how well they perform. If she can play well on a DP, she will play well on a acoustic piano. Of course, if one day your daughter came to you and asked for a acoustic piano, then you consider to get one.

May I ask why dont you want to buy a acoustic piano? If you can afford it and have room , I think that is the way to go.

For the piano choice, I don't like Roland sound, it feel too thin and digital. I think a Yamaha Arius like YDP 144 is enough if your budget is tight.. if not, go for CLP 645, that can last years.

Re: DP for children [Re: jamiecw] #2879534
08/14/19 12:02 PM
08/14/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 500
magicpiano Offline
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magicpiano  Offline
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Posts: 500
Originally Posted by jamiecw
Really? Great advice in principle, less so in practice, unless this 6 yr old has been playing piano since 2-3 yrs old and is Yuja Wang in the making I'd be surprised if they can tell the difference between actions let alone sound timbres...

I wrote "after some years"... That is, she should begin to learn the piano first and then, after some years of practice (exactly "how many years" depends from the child progress and desires for a better instrument...), she should be able to tell which action and sound timbre she would prefer.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879540
08/14/19 12:23 PM
08/14/19 12:23 PM
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Posts: 515
UK
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jamiecw Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
Ah, I thought when you said "And in this case.." it meant in the present case not the future one...my bad!

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879558
08/14/19 01:18 PM
08/14/19 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 14
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Egret Offline OP
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Egret  Offline OP
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Thank you all very much.
I understand that the majority shares the point of view of my seller today: to buy cheaper, and then after 3-4 years to decide on the circumstances.
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. One teacher (not our, Thanks God) says that:
“everyone is very mistaken when they buy the piano easier and cheaper, and then if the child plays, then ... then they buy something better. He won’t play! If there’s no good instrument, then the child will never play. First a good instrument, and then ... maybe he will play, if talent, or maybe not "(lol)
But first a musical instrument.
At the same time, of course, she are only talking about acoustics, you can’t even pronounce DP (lol)
This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...
Therefore, I worry that there will be an insufficient instrument, she will not learn.
I can not afford acoustics for several reasons. This issue with great torment, I decided for myself))) will be the DP.
it seems too much rubbish in my head))))))

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879561
08/14/19 01:23 PM
08/14/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,106
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Posts: 7,106
Originally Posted by Egret
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. ... This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...

It wasn't always this way- My wife was in a music school in Moscow at a time when few had pianos in their homes - nevermind grand pianos. After all, where can one fit a grand piano in a kommunalka?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879562
08/14/19 01:30 PM
08/14/19 01:30 PM
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Posts: 401
Danmark
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Morten Olsson Offline
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A modern DP is a perfectly fine instrument - some people are stuck in the past.
I vastly prefer playing acoustics but that’s just as much down to me being weird smile

My first piano was a Roland F140 and I enjoyed the heck out of that.

Re: DP for children [Re: Egret] #2879563
08/14/19 01:35 PM
08/14/19 01:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 14
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Egret Offline OP
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Egret  Offline OP
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Tyrone Slothrop Of course this is crazy.
but nevertheless, I did not hear that some teacher allowed to train at home on the DP. Parents do it as if against advice))

Last edited by Egret; 08/14/19 01:35 PM.
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