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2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. #2878911 08/12/19 02:05 PM
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KC Wolf Offline OP
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Hello everyone,

I am a long term lurker and have always enjoyed reading the forum. Thank you all for the fun.

I am currently in a dilemma of choosing between two pre-owned Estonia 168 (2005 vs 2015). While 2015 vintage is a fantastic piano due to all the improvements in the past 10 years, 2015 vintage also costs twice as much as the 2005 Estonia (130% more to be exact). The 2005 one does have "Laul Estonia Tallinn" printed on the metal plate, so it is already an improved version from pre 2001.

My daughter (9 yo) and I both play. I am an advanced beginner. My daughter has been learning for 3 years and making nice progress. We currently has a 50 inch Italian upright. Owning a grand has always been my dream although, in reality, it's probably not necessary given my level.

So would you choose 2015 or 2005 Estonia 168? Why?

2005 is well within my budget. 2015 is a bit stretch but not impossible. Both sound beautiful. I cannot really tell the difference in action responsiveness (yet, hopefully one day i or my daughter will)

So should I choose 2015 vintage because it is one of the best pianos one can get.

Or should I choose 2005 vintage since it's a very good piano at a very good price level.

Pls help. Any thoughts are TRULY appreciated!

Regards,
KC


Last edited by KC Wolf; 08/12/19 02:10 PM.
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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2878914 08/12/19 02:11 PM
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WeakLeftHand Offline
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Originally Posted by KC Wolf
Hello everyone,

I am a long term lurker and have always enjoyed reading the forum. Thank you all for the fun.

I am currently in a dilemma of choosing between two pre-owned Estonia 168 (2005 vs 2015). While 2015 vintage is a fantastic piano due to all the improvements in the past 10 years, 2015 vintage also costs twice more than 2005 Estonia (130% more to be exact). The 2005 one does have "Laul Estonia Tallinn" printed on the metal plate, so it is already an improved version from pre 2001.

My daughter (9 yo) and I both play. I am an advanced beginner. My daughter has been learning for 3 years and making nice progress. We currently has a 50 inch Italian upright. Owning a grand has always been my dream although, in reality, it's probably not necessary given my level.

So would you choose 2015 or 2005 Estonia 168? Why?

2005 is well within my budget. 2015 is a bit stretch but not impossible. Both sound beautiful. I cannot really tell the difference in action responsiveness (yet, hopefully one day i or my daughter will)

So should I choose 2015 vintage because it is one of the best pianos one can get.

Or should I choose 2005 vintage since it's a very good piano at a very good price level.

Pls help. Any thoughts are TRULY appreciated!

Regards,
KC



What exactly are the prices, if you don't mind me asking? I'm also eyeing the Estonia 168 right now, but a new one. My knee jerk reaction would be to get the 2015 one. I was also offered a 2005 Estonia 190. I will go play it but also a little concerned about the vintage, like you, and like everyone else who does a little research. That uncertainty may bother some people (like me), but it may not bother someone else. And of course, money talks, so...

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 08/12/19 02:12 PM.

Kawai K-500
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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2878918 08/12/19 02:35 PM
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KC
You don’t mention the two prices, where you live and whether these are being sold in the same condition. Are the same variables included in the price: moving, tuning, any limited warranty? Has a tech inspected them to tell you what work has been done and/or needs to be done? In being a pre-owned piano, of course age is a factor but condition of the individual piano is a huge factor that needs more than the just the age to be evaluated. A tech can help you evaluate the wear of the individual piano and what work, if any, will be needed.

Don’t be afraid of a pre-owned piano; just be aware of exactly what is under the hood.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2878919 08/12/19 02:36 PM
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If they both sound beautiful to you and you cannot tell the difference in the action I would go with the 2005. You could also get a more advanced player to play both for you and get their input. Regardless of which one you but it is still worth it to have a tech check it out. Good luck.

Rich


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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: Rich D.] #2878923 08/12/19 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich D.
If they both sound beautiful to you and you cannot tell the difference in the action I would go with the 2005. You could also get a more advanced player to play both for you and get their input. Regardless of which one you but it is still worth it to have a tech check it out. Good luck.

Rich

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If you still can’t decide ask yourself which one would you feel was a missed opportunity if it sold to someone else. That’s after the piano tech has given each the OK. Best of luck in you and your daughters piano adventure.


J & J
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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2879238 08/13/19 01:12 PM
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While Estonia did not stop refining the design of the L168, it was already much improved by 2004 and really a quite fine piano. After 2010, there were more changes to other models in the Estonia line, and we've seen some important changes yet again in the very newest L168's to arrive.

Among other differences, one of the more noticeable changes in the firmness of the action. The design of the action in 2004 was noticeably firmer than more recent versions.


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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2879310 08/13/19 04:39 PM
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Estonia’s not-yet-improved pianos of earlier vintage have frequently been criticized here but surprisingly not by their owners. Sure, the newer designs are clearly superior but we have sold many ‘older’ Estonia grands with absolutely no problems. The pianos are still much enjoyed by their owners and have always had beautiful tone. So, I would recommend to go for the older model. This however, only after having it checked out by a good, unbiased technician. Interestingly, its mostly the competition and their aligned tuners who criticize Estonia. Plus counting in perhaps a few hundred dollars for good service after owning it. If you offer this the technician he will surely accept and recommend the piano. Even if he is from the competition. So goes the business....😌
Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 08/13/19 04:44 PM.

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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: Norbert] #2879348 08/13/19 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
This however, only after having it checked out by a good, unbiased technician. Interestingly, its mostly the competition and their aligned tuners who criticize Estonia. Plus counting in perhaps a few hundred dollars for good service after owning it. If you offer this the technician he will surely accept and recommend the piano.
I would hope/expect that any good technician would not recommend any piano just because he has been promised money for a good service later. That would be highly unethical.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/13/19 06:06 PM.
Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2879592 08/14/19 03:22 PM
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Quote
I would hope/expect that any good technician would not recommend any piano just because he has been promised money for a good service later. That would be highly unethical.


Yes it is. Unfortunately money is not the only reason for it. In some areas the PTG wields lot's of local power and they're using it to what they see as their advantage. The advantage being tuning & servicing tons of "examination pianos" by another maker. And that's just the beginning....Other dealers in similar situations will understand this.
Ours can be a very cliquey, highly biased business....

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 08/14/19 03:25 PM.

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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: Rich D.] #2879597 08/14/19 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich D.
If they both sound beautiful to you and you cannot tell the difference in the action I would go with the 2005. You could also get a more advanced player to play both for you and get their input. Regardless of which one you but it is still worth it to have a tech check it out. Good luck.

As owner of a 190 made in 2005 I can attest it is a fine instrument. However, as Sam Bennett alluded the action is a bit heavy and I've noticed newer Estonias feel lighter. So if the weight of the action is importantt to you opt for the newer Estonia.

Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: Steve Chandler] #2879599 08/14/19 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
Originally Posted by Rich D.
If they both sound beautiful to you and you cannot tell the difference in the action I would go with the 2005. You could also get a more advanced player to play both for you and get their input. Regardless of which one you but it is still worth it to have a tech check it out. Good luck.

As owner of a 190 made in 2005 I can attest it is a fine instrument. However, as Sam Bennett alluded the action is a bit heavy and I've noticed newer Estonias feel lighter. So if the weight of the action is importantt to you opt for the newer Estonia.


Steve:

My Estonia 190 was made in March, 2004, and I don't find the action even a bit on the heavy side; others have voice similar views, saying that it is easy to play and very easy to control. It may be that I had some regulating done about five years ago that, while not lightening the action any, that I recall, certainly made it much more even across the entire keyboard.

I would love to try a new 190 or, better, a 210.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2885683 08/31/19 09:04 PM
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Thank you, everyone, for your kind replies.

We ended purchasing 2005 Estonia 168 and are very happy with the decision. Despite some visual imperfections on the case, our very capable technician confirmed the piano was in a great shape and had been hardly played. The price was right and the seller was local. (2015 Estonia would need long distance shipping).

The piano sounds so beautiful. The action feels just right, ( not too heavy, not too light). Now, we just have to wait for it to settle in before a tuning.

Thank you again for all your help! 😊

KC

Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2885689 08/31/19 09:34 PM
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Happy Estonia, KC Wolf!


Rich Galassini
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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2885728 09/01/19 02:24 AM
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Congratulations on your purchase. Your daughter is very lucky to get such a nice instrument in the house, as are you ;-)
In my experience children attach very much to the instrument from 9 years onwards. Hopefully it will be an interest she will enjoy for life.

Happy playing!

_Skjalg

Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2885738 09/01/19 03:28 AM
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Congratulation on your new Estonia! Happy playing!

Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2885815 09/01/19 09:52 AM
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Congrats on your new piano. Enjoy your new journey!



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Re: 2005 or 2015 Estonia 168? Pls help. [Re: KC Wolf] #2885831 09/01/19 10:23 AM
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Congratulations on your new Estonia! Please post pictures after delivery! In fact, you might want to video the delivery. It is a special day!


J & J
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