Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano

Yes, RME BFP is more better than N1x built in DAC (only very basic 44.1kHz/16bit).

So why is it that 44.1 kHz is not adequate. (It is, ya know.)

A lot of VIs run at 48KHz. That is a standard for movies so running native 48KHz would prevent rounding issues. That said, I don't think a lot of piano VIs are running 48KHz (e.g. limited offerings from PianoTeq, Production Voices, 8Dio, Bechstein)

Also, some argue that 48KHz material allows the filters at DAC can behave a bit better at higher audible frequencies.

For options. My brain gets tired hearing the same sound everyday. It nice to switch things up, it's like playing a new piano.

God Bless,
David

Some audiophiles think they have super sensory hearing and can discern a difference by introducing a very expensive cable into the audio chain.

Evidently, those with gifted bionic ears can also hear the difference between 48 and 44KHz

God Bless,
David

I think bit depth is more important than bit rate.
44.1 kHz is already more than enough for human hearing ... even for the very young, with the best hearing.
With age I think even 25 kHz would be adequate. But that's not available, so 44.1 it is. Or 48. I don't care. Either one works.

@David B: There are even those who insist upon 96 kHz ... and beyond ... for rendered audio. Silly stuff.

44.1Khz is not the problem, but 44.1kHz with 16bit is worse than normal standard 44.1kHz/24 bit.
And most high grade DAC can provide oversampling such as 88.1Khz or higher to increase the output quality.
Any N1x user can make a test, using USB line feed the digital audio into N1X and to compare the output with RME BFP or other high quality DAC analog line out with same VST source. He can hear the difference.

For whether enough for human hearing........for me, I just upgrade my Y/S Ur242 sound interface to RME ADI2 DAC, every person around me can easily hear the output difference from my CA98 by VSL D274.
This is not psychology, believe the facts and science .

Of couse, any DP has built-in audio interface and support USB audio input Wil be convenient for customer. But it doesn't mean good enough, especially for VST users.

I watched this famous YouTube video on audio myths and was fascinated.

https://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ

It gave me reassurance that, other than very good speakers (which can make a big difference), it’s probably wise not worrying about trying to improve audio performance since it likely won’t be noticeable. A computer may be able to measure the difference but human hearing isn’t capable of perceiving it.

At 41:15 there is good demonstration comparing a cheap $25 Soundblaster sound card vs an Apogee 8000. I did this test blind and couldn’t tell any difference, but forced myself to choose one and it was the cheap sound card.

At 45:08 there is a discussion of analogue vs digital.

Most enlightening for me was at 45:51 which shows how bit reduction affects sound. How many bits do we really need? I didn’t perceive any degradation until the bit rate was reduced to around 10 bits. So 16 seems like more than enough.

I've heard this as well, but have never really experienced it with a decent upright. Is there an explanation for why this is? Does an upright lack absolute range in the high/low end, or is it just more difficult to control?

If you can map the entire playable range of velocities in the action, you can achieve the same dynamic range as in any digital or acoustic silent grand, but if an upright has a more compressed range, it seems to follow that you could have more difficulty hitting the velocity you're intending.

I like the compressed dynamic range of upright pianos. It makes it a bit more predictable, especially for pianists who are not that experienced. It’s not even compressed per se. Rather, grand pianos have extended range. I just think that grands can achieve almost deafening volumes whereas uprights hit a plateau above certain velocities.

Two things:
1. You cannot upgrade a UR242 to an RME ADI2 DAC. You must outright replace the UR242.

2. I agree that bit-depth matters. But being able to distinguish the sound of the UR242 from that of the RME ADI2 only proves that ... you can distinguish the sound of the UR242 from that of the RME ADI2.
There are multiple differences between the two, and you've not identified which differences produce the difference in what you're hearing.And, by the way ... you've cited no science at all. You've only said that you can hear a difference. Perhaps there's some science to be had, but you've made no mention of such.

It's different with each instrument, but it's mainly noticeable at pp and ff (or greater) dynamics. The uprights tend to max out and no amount of force gets more sound beyond that point. Same for pp, you can get to piano, but pp is either impossible or at best, inconsistent.

So again, I'm curious how the NV5 compares to an acoustic - perhaps it partially resolves this limitation.

When I was researching DP's I broke them down into 3 different sections that end up making the whole DP, Keyboard, Sound Generation and Sound Projection. There are many many permutations of different approaches so solving each of those problems in DP's. I never thought about acoustics that way because for the most part the decision to get an upright or a grand determined the choices. You couldn't mix an upright action with a grand sound generation and sound projection.

I think in the acoustic world the difference between a upright and a grand is a sum of all the parts not just the keyboard. In the DP world it's different. You can have a upright action paired with the same sound generation engine and sound projection of a hybrid with a grand action. In the simplest comparison you have a NU1X with an upright action compared to the N1X with a grand action. If you were to use headphones as your sound projection choice and use the CFX Binaural sound then after the keyboard they are using similar components. I think CyberGene can answer this best since he's played both. This isn't to say that the action doesn't make a difference in other aspects of play, from everything I have read here and other places there are techniques and skills that are best accomplished with a grand action.

Now with the NV5 coming out there will be a second point of comparison. It will be interesting to see if anyone compares it to the NV10. So far it looks like the specs are similar so the comparison would be the same as the NU1X to the N1X

Before anyone jumps in I realize my comparision is in the simplest form and that if you are playing through the on board speakers there are definite differences between the two as well as the sound generation once you get past the CFX Binaural sample. What I was wondering about if you kept all things equal except the keyboard how does the difference between the two keyboards affect sound in particular the aspects that Morodiene mentions.

So, for the uninitiated or for the ones dying to see more, a new vid on the NV5:

https://youtu.be/-MopWhN0SDM (it's all in Japanese though)...at 3.21 she talks about the pedal, is this the part where if using the sustain pedal the DP gives the impression of the dampers being lifted making the action slightly lighter?

PS. on the above grand vs upright action, between the CS11 and the NV5 which would it be?

the price is 590000 yen on the video (5000€), on kawai site it was 650 000

Do the actions of the K-200/300/500/600/800 really differ that much? They all seem to be using the "Exclusive Millennium III Upright Action with ABS-Carbon Composites" action.

According to Thomann, they'll be having it in stock within 3-4 weeks:
Kawai NV5 - Thomann

I hope that is the case, this however says that it will be released the 4th of October (I had to use Google translate):
Kawai NV5

So, it seems we have only briefly touched on the release date of this in the United States. Can anyone confirm a release date for this year? I am very close to purchasing a Yamaha N1x (yes I know it's a grand action vs. an upright action), and would love to try this before I commit. Thanks!

Only the K500 and upwards feature the Extended key length & Neotex key surfaces. Longer keys make playing easier and provide a more even response from the front to the back of the playing surface

Thank you for the info! It would be interesting to know if the NV-5's action is based on the K-500 and upwards then. Something tells me it is not though.