2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
81 members (accordeur, Abdol, 8ude, BeWater, anotherscott, brdwyguy, 19 invisible), 702 guests, and 578 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2870108 07/17/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,731

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,731
Any updates on this? Has anyone found out what the activation and annual subscription fees are?


January is National Slavery and Human Trafficking Awareness Month
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2874215 07/30/19 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
Any updates on this?


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
NobleHouse #2877828 08/08/19 07:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by dogperson
It should give anyone pause for thought before buying a Spiro piano. A lot of money that might be wasted on resale.
I’m surprised we have not had a Steinway reply to this thread with some good news; the silence is concerning


The silence from Steinway really is deafening!


Glad I moved from all Steinway pianos to Baldwin pianos. Sold my -S and -O models and never look back to Steinway. Once I have the SD-10s, there is no turning back.

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
Kurtmen #2877829 08/08/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Kurtmen
Quote
If we had a system installed in our Bosie 225, how much would that cost (to essentially duplicate the resolution of the Spirio R for both recording and playback)?

My two cents, Don't wreck your piano. Buy yourself a high definition sound system then listen to every single orchestra and pianist in the world. Watching the keys move gets old very fast, unless you have a restaurant or hotel with guests everyday. If you entertain at home hire a pianist.


Sound advice by Kurmen. With less than $5K you can buy an excellent hi-fi vintage system that will sound like an orchestra is coming to your house.

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2878346 08/10/19 02:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 218
I
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
I
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 218
I had a feeling back in 2014, when Paulson took over and Steinway bought Wayne Stahnke's technology, that they were catering to the rich. We're seeing this unfold (in one way). I think Steinway is trying to make a quick buck off the rich by selling them exotic and fancy instruments that serve little more than their "own little toys." This may be good in the short term but it certainly is not in the long term, as demonstrated by this debacle. What worries me is that (and I don't know if this is true) Steinway may have shifted their business culture away from vetting for their instruments' quality and more towards churning out more Apple-like pianos.

(In my fantasy world, a group of musicians and music-lovers come together to raise enough capital ($1 Billion!) to buy Steinway from Paulson and return their focus to musicians.)

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2878433 08/10/19 11:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
A
Silver Supporter until Feb 1 2020
Full Member
Offline
Silver Supporter until Feb 1 2020
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
I think that Steinway has always (at least as long as I have been alive - since World War II) catered to the rich. They have spent a lot to promote their brand as the top piano in the world (at least in their minds and the minds of the general public in the US).

When Paulson bought Steinway, their sales had plummeted by around 50% because of the 2007 recession/depression and other factors. The introduction of the Spirio has opened their market to a new group of customers, who don't necessarily play piano, but like the idea of the Steinway in their home, with music performed by internationally known artists. The statistics seem to indicate that close to half of Steinway sales are from Spirio models. Another way to look at it is that the sales of non Spirio models have had little increase since their fall in sales, and the Spirio been responsible for almost doubling their sales.

Brand new Steinway Grands are well within the reach of the top few percent of the population, like those who purchase top end cars or watches. In the US, with about 100 million households, this is around 5 million of those households for the top 5% in income (for example the threshold for the top 5% in the US is an annual income of $300K/yr.). According to the web, Steinway makes about 1000 pianos in the US and a similar number in Germany, a small fraction of number of households that can afford one. I don't think Piano Forum is the place where these people typical look to learn about these six figure pianos.


Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
astrotoy #2878461 08/11/19 05:45 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,323
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,323
Originally Posted by astrotoy

When Paulson bought Steinway, their sales had plummeted by around 50% because of the 2007 recession/depression and other factors. The introduction of the Spirio has opened their market to a new group of customers, who don't necessarily play piano, but like the idea of the Steinway in their home, with music performed by internationally known artists. The statistics seem to indicate that close to half of Steinway sales are from Spirio models. Another way to look at it is that the sales of non Spirio models have had little increase since their fall in sales, and the Spirio been responsible for almost doubling their sales.



Just because a large percentage of their sales contain Spirio does not mean they have had an increase in unit sales, astroboy. Remember that before Spirio, Steinway Hall provided (and recommended) PianoDisc systems on their pianos for years, so the idea of having a beautiful piano that plays for you is not new to Steinway.

I DO believe they have had an increase in unit sales, but not by 50%. However, the average gross number has most certainly risen. A Spirio is much more expensive than any other player system, even the Disklavier Pro, which has more capabilities.

My 2 cents,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Visit our Online Store
The Science Channel documents our piano restoration
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2878559 08/11/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
A
Silver Supporter until Feb 1 2020
Full Member
Offline
Silver Supporter until Feb 1 2020
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
Rich, thanks. I think one of the major attractions of the Spirio is that it comes with all the performances of Steinway artists, including some videos which are coordinated with the performances on the keyboard. Watching Josef Hoffman and hearing him play ("live") was quite amazing. All of this is free to the buyer of the Spirio for the lifetime of ownership (to answer an earlier post about licensing price). I believe that most buyers of the Spirio are not very price sensitive. They discover pretty quickly that Steinway doesn't discount and they want it. Yamaha (even with its CF line) doesn't have the cachet of Steinway.

When we bought our Yamaha S400E we ordered the Disklavier mechanism (this was before the Disklavier Pro was on the scene), so we could record our playing. However, we had to buy the discs for any artist we wanted to hear. For classical artists, the major name we recognized was Earl Wild. There was one album by George Shearing which we also bought.

In some ways, branding in pianos is similar to watches. To the general public (even the wealthiest 5%), the name Steinway is like the name Rolex. Yamaha is like Seiko. Seiko has their Grand Seiko line which are comparable in quality (some argue better) and price to Rolex, but people still want a Rolex. The cognoscenti know the more exotic brands like Boesendorfer and Fazioli, but they are little known to the general public, much like watch brands Richard Mille and Vacheron Constantin.


Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2878587 08/11/19 02:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
AstroToy - yes all well and good. If I were to buy your S400E with the Disklavier system installed I would expect that we would negotiate in or out the discs you bought for the system and would expect to have additional artists discs available from Yamaha. If the discs were no longer available and I couldn’t buy more that were compatible I would expect to pay you significantly less if the Disklavier couldn’t be updated and usable to me as the new owner. Apparently Yamaha had the foresight to see that their Disklavier equipped pianos might have 2nd and 3rd owners who might enjoy using the Disklavier features. I don’t care how rich you are if you’re buying an expensive Tier 1 Piano with the new Spirio entertainment system you would be concerned that the Spirio system could be transferred to a second owner who would have to buy a Spirio subscription from Steinway. Is that how it works or has anyone heard from a Steinway dealer how that’s situation handled?


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
j&j #2878797 08/12/19 06:39 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,323
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,323
Originally Posted by j&j
AstroToy - yes all well and good. If I were to buy your S400E with the Disklavier system installed I would expect that we would negotiate in or out the discs you bought for the system and would expect to have additional artists discs available from Yamaha. If the discs were no longer available and I couldn’t buy more that were compatible I would expect to pay you significantly less if the Disklavier couldn’t be updated and usable to me as the new owner. Apparently Yamaha had the foresight to see that their Disklavier equipped pianos might have 2nd and 3rd owners who might enjoy using the Disklavier features. I don’t care how rich you are if you’re buying an expensive Tier 1 Piano with the new Spirio entertainment system you would be concerned that the Spirio system could be transferred to a second owner who would have to buy a Spirio subscription from Steinway. Is that how it works or has anyone heard from a Steinway dealer how that’s situation handled?



Also, Yamaha offers hardware and software updates on the Disklavier, so a 10 or 20 year old Dasklavier could have many of the cutting edge capabilities they are currently known for, like Disklavier TV, remote lessons, live streaming events, over 30 channels of streaming music, etc.

The software updates are at no charge. The hardware update could be up to a couple grand, depending on installation.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Visit our Online Store
The Science Channel documents our piano restoration
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2878804 08/12/19 07:19 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,281
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,281
No one has heard from the OP, a dealer or Steinway management re the transfer of Spiro to a new owner.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
Rich Galassini #2878813 08/12/19 08:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini


Also, Yamaha offers hardware and software updates on the Disklavier, so a 10 or 20 year old Dasklavier could have many of the cutting edge capabilities they are currently known for, like Disklavier TV, remote lessons, live streaming events, over 30 channels of streaming music, etc.

The software updates are at no charge. The hardware update could be up to a couple grand, depending on installation.

Thank you Rich! That’s quite comforting to Yamaha customers, future Disklavier owners, and Yamaha dealers certainly. thumb


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
Rich Galassini #2878859 08/12/19 10:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
A
Silver Supporter until Feb 1 2020
Full Member
Offline
Silver Supporter until Feb 1 2020
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by j&j
AstroToy - yes all well and good. If I were to buy your S400E with the Disklavier system installed I would expect that we would negotiate in or out the discs you bought for the system and would expect to have additional artists discs available from Yamaha. If the discs were no longer available and I couldn’t buy more that were compatible I would expect to pay you significantly less if the Disklavier couldn’t be updated and usable to me as the new owner. Apparently Yamaha had the foresight to see that their Disklavier equipped pianos might have 2nd and 3rd owners who might enjoy using the Disklavier features. I don’t care how rich you are if you’re buying an expensive Tier 1 Piano with the new Spirio entertainment system you would be concerned that the Spirio system could be transferred to a second owner who would have to buy a Spirio subscription from Steinway. Is that how it works or has anyone heard from a Steinway dealer how that’s situation handled?



Also, Yamaha offers hardware and software updates on the Disklavier, so a 10 or 20 year old Dasklavier could have many of the cutting edge capabilities they are currently known for, like Disklavier TV, remote lessons, live streaming events, over 30 channels of streaming music, etc.

The software updates are at no charge. The hardware update could be up to a couple grand, depending on installation.


Great to know. I asked my dealer (whom we bought our S400E with a disklavier) whether I could upgrade to a Disklavier Pro, and he said I needed to trade in my piano for a new one. So I can upgrade to a Disklavier Pro for a couple thousand. That sounds great. Our Disklavier is from 1992 so we have the floor standing model console.


Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2878865 08/12/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,100
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,100
I just tuned a Chinese Baldwin with a player in it. The owners do not have a remote for it, and there is no information on what system it is. I cannot find information on the internet about it. This is the problem with player systems. There is no assurance that there will be support for them beyond what the original purchaser gets.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
astrotoy #2879022 08/12/19 10:07 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,323
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,323
Originally Posted by astrotoy
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini


Also, Yamaha offers hardware and software updates on the Disklavier, so a 10 or 20 year old Dasklavier could have many of the cutting edge capabilities they are currently known for, like Disklavier TV, remote lessons, live streaming events, over 30 channels of streaming music, etc.

The software updates are at no charge. The hardware update could be up to a couple grand, depending on installation.


Great to know. I asked my dealer (whom we bought our S400E with a disklavier) whether I could upgrade to a Disklavier Pro, and he said I needed to trade in my piano for a new one. So I can upgrade to a Disklavier Pro for a couple thousand. That sounds great. Our Disklavier is from 1992 so we have the floor standing model console.



No - I am sorry that I misled you astrotoy. You can update a Disklavier to get additional capabilities, but you cannot do things like improve the sensitivity of the present system in terms of recording, saving, sharing, and replaying the performance. Send me the model of your Disklavier by pm, along with the serial number of your piano and I am happy to let you know what hardware updates would do for you.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Visit our Online Store
The Science Channel documents our piano restoration
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
Kurtmen #2880580 08/17/19 10:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 731
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 731

Originally Posted by Kurtmen
If you buy a desktop with an operating system by Microsoft, you pay a yearly fee for the use of Office360. If the desktop is sold, the new user technically will have to renew at some point the lease on the software.


This is why I use Open Office freeware.

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
swampwiz #2880596 08/17/19 11:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
Originally Posted by swampwiz

Originally Posted by Kurtmen
If you buy a desktop with an operating system by Microsoft, you pay a yearly fee for the use of Office360. If the desktop is sold, the new user technically will have to renew at some point the lease on the software.


This is why I use Open Office freeware.

This is the ongoing question when you mix software with completely acoustic instruments. Exactly what happens 10 or 20 years down the road? It’s tantalizing to think that your piano can be part of your networked entertainment system and can play background music for guests while we’re still working in the kitchen. You have some of the great pianists entertaining your guests on your own piano. That’s a really strong sell, especially for those of us still practicing trying to measure up to our own pianos. Yeah, I’ll admit it. My piano is the stronger better partner in my piano playing and practicing partnership. Always has been always will be. It would be a kick to have Elton John or Lady Gaga remotely play my piano.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2881728 08/20/19 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,689
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,689
Video on the Steinway Spirio referencing this thread from ThePianoforever


Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
newer player #2881737 08/20/19 03:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by newer player
Video on the Steinway Spirio referencing this thread from ThePianoforever


Neat. PW is famous (or infamous). wink


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue
steinwayman18 #2881758 08/20/19 04:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,041
Wow! I still can’t believe Steinway & Son’s Management or marketing hasn’t responded with THEIR side of the story. We are talking about a really expensive piano equipped with a very expensive player system. Completely locked for anyone except the original owner? Really??

Last edited by j&j; 08/20/19 04:37 PM.

J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Parents wanting more work - student not ready/interested
by Kyle J. Smith - 01/18/21 06:24 PM
Kurzweil ka130 vs Casio px770 vs...
by Ninchie007 - 01/18/21 04:45 PM
Refurb or Trade for a Rebuild
by brdwyguy - 01/18/21 04:22 PM
VST Spreadsheet not Available on Sticky Thread
by Harpuia - 01/18/21 02:57 PM
Roland FP Advice
by LongTimeNoSee - 01/18/21 01:49 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,365
Posts3,048,581
Members100,115
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4