Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
89 registered members (Compañero, ando, 20/20 Vision, anotherscott, cmb13, AWilley, astrotoy, Abdol, ColoRodney, 20 invisible), 3,139 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Your brain on piano #2877893
08/09/19 01:10 AM
08/09/19 01:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 733
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 733
Sweden
I liked this one, even though they did not describe the brain activity needed for doing all of this simultaneously in a coordinated way - which I think is the biggest challenge of playing the piano. Of course, it is a gross simplification (for instance, proprioception activates many more areas than just the cerebellum), and before we all get too happy: even a simple thing as pouring yourself a cup of coffee activates many brain areas. Still, it's a nice picture.

[Linked Image]


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2877931
08/09/19 05:09 AM
08/09/19 05:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 414
India
Tech-key Offline
Full Member
Tech-key  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 414
India
Interesting picture, Animisha! It does sometimes feel like you are juggling all the planets in the solar system, while riding a unicycle cry

Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2877951
08/09/19 06:36 AM
08/09/19 06:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 240
U
U3piano Offline
Full Member
U3piano  Offline
Full Member
U

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 240
It's hard to say, since there are always other factors in life, but i think i actually do feel sharper, and have improved memory since i started to play piano alot.



Umm, there was something else i wanted to add.. but i forgot.

Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2877953
08/09/19 06:37 AM
08/09/19 06:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,153
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,153
Canada
Proprioception. That seems to be the part I have to work on the most. Interesting picture.

Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2877956
08/09/19 06:44 AM
08/09/19 06:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,774
Northern England.
peterws Offline
7000 Post Club Member
peterws  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,774
Northern England.
Playing one o' Tchaikovsky's sonatas totally did my head in. I am no longer the man I was . . . I started emitting strange smells, wild eyes, mood swings; and just looking at the music created terror.
But, too late! I was hooked.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2877958
08/09/19 06:49 AM
08/09/19 06:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,843
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
2000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,843
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Great picture. Brings many concepts to life.


[Linked Image]
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2877967
08/09/19 07:12 AM
08/09/19 07:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 308
Southeast USA
P
Progman Offline

Full Member
Progman  Offline

Full Member
P

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 308
Southeast USA
That's awesome. I just tell people it's diabolically difficult!


Progman
Baldwin Console + Kawai ES100
Alfreds bk 1 + Teacher
Long Live ELP
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2877975
08/09/19 07:33 AM
08/09/19 07:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,179
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,179
Compared to other instrumentalists, only a pianist has perfectly developed motor skills in all limbs as well as perfect posture: no crooked neck & shoulders like a violinist/violist or splayed legs like a cellist - and perfect symmetry (perfectly developed shoulders, arms, hands & fingers, R=L), no puffy cheeks (like brass players) or lips (like woodwind players), no hunched posture (like bassists) or deafness (like percussionists).

In fact, a pianist is perfection personified. thumb

That's assuming, of course, that you don't play like Glenn Gould....... wink


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878010
08/09/19 09:49 AM
08/09/19 09:49 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,024
Florida
cmb13 Online content

Silver Level
cmb13  Online Content

Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,024
Florida
Very nice diagram, cool concepts!


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

YouTube

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions
Grieg Sonata - Andante molto

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878013
08/09/19 10:21 AM
08/09/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,301
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
Gold Subscriber
Stubbie  Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,301
Midwest USA
It is a wonder, isn't it!

The only other instrument that might surpass it in complexity is the organ, when there are foot pedals to be played as well as four or more keyboards and stops to maneuver.


[Linked Image]
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878015
08/09/19 10:28 AM
08/09/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,204
Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline

3000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline

3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,204
Georgia, USA
And the diagram doesn’t include playing from memory. Recalling exactly what to do at precisely the right time...

Sam

Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878042
08/09/19 11:46 AM
08/09/19 11:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 702
Sheffield, UK
K
KevinM Offline
500 Post Club Member
KevinM  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 702
Sheffield, UK
I worked up a sweat this morning practising arpeggios, playing both hands over four octaves trying to gradually up the tempo. Perhaps it doesn't really help fitness but does highlight how unfit I am.

I'd be a much better player if Spatial was true.

Last edited by KevinM; 08/09/19 11:47 AM.

Mendelssohn Song without Words Op19,2 and 19,6, Jensen Sehnsucht Op8,5. Chopin Nocturne C# Minor. Schumann Hasche Mann from Kinderszenen Op15,3. https://soundcloud.com/sheffieldkevin
DP: Kawai MP11SE. HP: Superlux HD681 EVO
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Stubbie] #2878066
08/09/19 01:20 PM
08/09/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 733
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 733
Sweden
Originally Posted by Stubbie
It is a wonder, isn't it!

The only other instrument that might surpass it in complexity is the organ, when there are foot pedals to be played as well as four or more keyboards and stops to maneuver.

Stubbie, as far as I know, organs usually don't have weighted keys, and that subtracts a bit from its complexity. However, even without weighted keys, I think you are right.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878074
08/09/19 01:36 PM
08/09/19 01:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 150
Detroit
F
Fidel Offline
Full Member
Fidel  Offline
Full Member
F

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 150
Detroit
I prefer kinesthetic awareness to proprioception but whatever, to-may-to / to-mah-to.

It's a great chart and I'd like to know where to get a wall size version.

Last edited by Fidel; 08/09/19 01:37 PM.

"the lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne." -- Chaucer.
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878075
08/09/19 01:42 PM
08/09/19 01:42 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,442
Florida
dogperson Offline

Silver Subscriber
dogperson  Offline

Silver Subscriber
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,442
Florida
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Stubbie
It is a wonder, isn't it!

The only other instrument that might surpass it in complexity is the organ, when there are foot pedals to be played as well as four or more keyboards and stops to maneuver.

Stubbie, as far as I know, organs usually don't have weighted keys, and that subtracts a bit from its complexity. However, even without weighted keys, I think you are right.


Organ keys, IMO, add complexity: the sound disappears as soon as your finger leaves the key. Want to play legato, you need to substitute fingers so that you replicate a sustain sound by crawling from one key to the next. . Want to play soft, you can’t do it with your fingers, but rather your foot. I was never a great organist as a kid—- just ‘good enough’ to play for church but I found the organ to more complex in terms of getting the sound the way I wanted. Feet? OMG, a really great organist moves their feet all over the pedals at a million miles an hour. I just did simple pedaling.

Maybe someone with more equal experience between the organ and piano will have a different opinion.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: dogperson] #2878083
08/09/19 02:07 PM
08/09/19 02:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 789
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 789
South Wales
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Stubbie
It is a wonder, isn't it!

The only other instrument that might surpass it in complexity is the organ, when there are foot pedals to be played as well as four or more keyboards and stops to maneuver.

Stubbie, as far as I know, organs usually don't have weighted keys, and that subtracts a bit from its complexity. However, even without weighted keys, I think you are right.


Organ keys, IMO, add complexity: the sound disappears as soon as your finger leaves the key. Want to play legato, you need to substitute fingers so that you replicate a sustain sound by crawling from one key to the next. . Want to play soft, you can’t do it with your fingers, but rather your foot. I was never a great organist as a kid—- just ‘good enough’ to play for church but I found the organ to more complex in terms of getting the sound the way I wanted. Feet? OMG, a really great organist moves their feet all over the pedals at a million miles an hour. I just did simple pedaling.

Maybe someone with more equal experience between the organ and piano will have a different opinion.

Yes, moving the feet does add a bit to the complexity and the fingering messes you up when it comes to playing the piano! On the other hand you cannot create the dynamics in the same way as you can on a piano.

Last edited by Colin Miles; 08/09/19 02:08 PM. Reason: additional comment

Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878096
08/09/19 03:08 PM
08/09/19 03:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,042
W
Whizbang Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Whizbang  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,042
Originally Posted by Animisha
even a simple thing as pouring yourself a cup of coffee activates many brain areas


No, no. You have it wrong. The brain areas are only activated AFTER you have had your coffee.


Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878101
08/09/19 03:17 PM
08/09/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,179
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,179
IMO, the piano is far more complex to play and difficult to play well than the organ (or harpsichord).

The weighting & balance of notes in chords & textures, the precise colouring & nuances (achieved purely by aforementioned weighting and articulation and use of all the pedals - singly or together, including half pedal and flutter pedalling) and the advanced effects achievable on it (different kinds of staccato, ghost notes by depressing keys silently while playing others, even stroking the strings while depressing some keys etc, etc) are all impossible on an organ. On a piano, you need to have perfect control of each individual finger in order to get the sound quality you want. On an organ, you just need good finger independence.

That's why pianists transition easily to organ but not vice versa. In fact, most organists were once pianists, but rapidly lose their pianistic skills if they don't return to the piano regularly.

I played the organ at school occasionally during services or choir practice (- never having had any lessons on it), when the organ scholar was indisposed. He never really played the piano, and whenever he tried to play it, it sounded really rough - uneven voicing, ghost notes, other notes sticking out. Yet on the organ, he sounded like a professional, and his foot technique was of course better than mine. We once had fun challenging each other to play Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor (BWV 565) on both instruments......my rendition (with a few necessary transpositions) on the piano was much, much better than his on piano, whereas our respective organ renditions were more closely matched. (We both agreed on the results wink ).

A lot of an organist's work is done beforehand - deciding on the stops and the keyboard to use, and (especially if an unfamiliar organ) knowing exactly where the stops are.

BTW, someone mentioned finger switching on organs - advanced pianists use it all the time on the piano too. Sloppy pedalling or using the pedal when finger switching to achieve desired legato should have been used is rampant amongst lazy amateurs (or those who haven't mastered that art)......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Your brain on piano [Re: Animisha] #2878109
08/09/19 04:05 PM
08/09/19 04:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 242
Connecticut, USA
MichaelJK Offline

Full Member
MichaelJK  Offline

Full Member

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 242
Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted by Animisha
and before we all get too happy: even a simple thing as pouring yourself a cup of coffee activates many brain areas. Still, it's a nice picture.


I'm curious: what is it about this picture that makes you happy?

Re: Your brain on piano [Re: bennevis] #2878128
08/09/19 05:13 PM
08/09/19 05:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,262
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,262
Originally Posted by bennevis
I played the organ at school occasionally during services or choir practice (- never having had any lessons on it), when the organ scholar was indisposed. He never really played the piano, and whenever he tried to play it, it sounded really rough - uneven voicing, ghost notes, other notes sticking out. Yet on the organ, he sounded like a professional, and his foot technique was of course better than mine. We once had fun challenging each other to play Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor (BWV 565) on both instruments......my rendition (with a few necessary transpositions) on the piano was much, much better than his on piano, whereas our respective organ renditions were more closely matched. (We both agreed on the results wink )

OT, but I was most surprised to read that Dudley Moore was the Organ Scholar at Magdalen College, Oxford, when he was student at Oxford. The idea of an Organ Scholar seems antiquated to me. (Sorry, you organ lovers out there! laugh )


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  BB Player 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Dead key on Korg Concert 6000
by Infinity. 09/19/19 09:15 PM
Finally Got Good Settings for My Casio GP-500
by Tenor1. 09/19/19 06:54 PM
How to present yourself....
by Duaner. 09/19/19 06:48 PM
Regulating WNG Action
by 20/20 Vision. 09/19/19 06:15 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,111
Posts2,871,168
Members94,458
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1