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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877898 08/09/19 02:08 AM
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What if Chopin was given a VPC1 with Pianoteq Playel? What would he say?

"This crap thing is NEVER a Playel. Crap plastic sound!"

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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: Harpuia] #2877903 08/09/19 02:41 AM
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If Chopin could hear Pianoteq he'd drop dead on the spot.
Today, were someone to bring such equipment to Pierre Lachaise we could witness the rolling-over-in-the-grave phenomenon.
Originally Posted by Harpuia
What if Chopin was given a VPC1 with Pianoteq Playel? What would he say?
"This crap thing is NEVER a Playel. Crap plastic sound!"
But ... getting back to Chopin's early- and mid-19th century time ... I think he'd first have to wait for more than half a century to get some electricity to power the thing.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: Harpuia] #2877918 08/09/19 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
What if Chopin was given a VPC1 with Pianoteq Playel? What would he say?

"This crap thing is NEVER a Playel. Crap plastic sound!"


The correct spelling of this historical piano is "Pleyel". It was built in 1835, and has a marvelous and very delicate sound, very different from the sound of modern pianos. Personnally I think Chopin would have loved the Pianateq version, but who am I to to tell what Chopin would say?

In any case, could you tell what you find wrong in the F. Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante Op. 22 demo that you can listen on our demo page
https://www.pianoteq.com/kremsegg2 ?

Last edited by pianophil; 08/09/19 04:16 AM.
Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877921 08/09/19 04:31 AM
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Today is the 77th anniversary of Leningrad première of Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7

The circumstances were far from the usual. Read through that, you won't be sorry. One can hardly keep his eyes dry while reading about such a heroism!

Sorry for the offtopic, couldn't find better place for that, so it's my thread after all wink


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878142 08/09/19 06:33 PM
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Rachmaninoff's Window in Time was reproduced from such a thing as piano roll. A wonderful piece indeed! But this is very individual. A great composer does not always mean a great performer (and vice versa). I am not sure, but probably baroque performing standards was not as such high as now. I believe we have capable composers/performers like Mozart or Bach as of now. It's just time that dictates different standards and needs.

Midi is very limited technology, btw. Only 255 gradations of velocity. It's like looking at VGA monitor which is probably enough for playing tetris as Midi is sufficient for electronic music.

Last edited by midenok; 08/09/19 06:42 PM.
Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: midenok] #2878260 08/10/19 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by midenok
[...]Midi is very limited technology, btw. Only 255 gradations of velocity. It's like looking at VGA monitor which is probably enough for playing tetris as Midi is sufficient for electronic music.
Standard MIDI allows 127 velocity variations. Anyway I think it's more than enough to feel all the volume and timbre dynamics your ear needs to feel the player expressiveness. The problem is the quality of the sound source engine in creating those 127 variations.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878276 08/10/19 08:52 AM
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Yes, 127 is enough. More than enough. If you hear a problem it's the sound source, not the loudness resolution.
A piano is not a VGA monitor, and we don't play Tetris on a piano, do we? smile
Originally Posted by midenok
Midi is very limited technology, btw. Only 255 gradations of velocity. It's like looking at VGA monitor which is probably enough for playing tetris as Midi is sufficient for electronic music.


Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: MacMacMac] #2878328 08/10/19 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, 127 is enough. More than enough. If you hear a problem it's the sound source, not the loudness resolution.
A piano is not a VGA monitor, and we don't play Tetris on a piano, do we? smile
Originally Posted by midenok
Midi is very limited technology, btw. Only 255 gradations of velocity. It's like looking at VGA monitor which is probably enough for playing tetris as Midi is sufficient for electronic music.



My Casio has HiRes MIDI which is like 4K HDR to your VGA.

Pete14

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878331 08/10/19 02:30 PM
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And ... does it make a difference? Piano has sound.
4K video has picture.
There's no relationship.
Originally Posted by navindra
My Casio has HiRes MIDI which is like 4K HDR to your VGA.
It's irrelevant, except for marketing people bent on deluding the gullible.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878336 08/10/19 03:17 PM
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Yes, having more than 127 velocity values for a piano sound it's like having a 8K resolution on a smartphone display. Totally useless... But I'm sure in the near future we will see 8K smartphones too.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: magicpiano] #2878395 08/10/19 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
But I'm sure in the near future we will see 8K smartphones too.


Along with the usual group of people claiming they can see the difference. A bit like audiophiles.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878402 08/10/19 07:39 PM
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I am a bit puzzled by this discussion. I have an hard time to hit the same note twice with the same velocity... then 127 levels is enough for me... but the designer of the Piano Phoenix by Adele H seems to have requirements by professional at 1300 levels. I have no clue how the extra levels are used (more between levels ? More less than 1 level ? Etc. )


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: Frédéric L] #2878403 08/10/19 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
II have an hard time to hit the same note twice with the same velocity...


Isn't that an argument for more rather than fewer velocities?

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878408 08/10/19 08:40 PM
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That surely is not an argument for more. It only serves to show that either 127 is enough ... or that Frederic (and I) lack consistency of touch.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878409 08/10/19 08:48 PM
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I'd like to see someone on here posting a video of them playing the same note with 127 different audible amplitude variations.

I'd wager not many could manage more than about 12.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878411 08/10/19 09:17 PM
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Martha Argerich is known for playing over a thousand audible variations on a single note! She currently holds the record.
Barenboim is a close second (clocking in at 879 audible variations).

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878454 08/11/19 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Martha Argerich is known for playing over a thousand audible variations on a single note![...]

Audible from who? Some extraterrestrial being? confused

Let's make a simple experiment: make a MIDI file in which a C4 note is played first at velocity 100, then, at velocity 101. After some seconds, the same 2 notes are played 10 times but in a random order... Do you think you are able to tell without doubts which is the C4 at velocity 100 and which is at 101 ? Of course we have to use some piano engine that realistically generates different timbre and volume for each velocity (we can use Pianoteq).
If you are able to distinguish between the two velocities, then we need more than 127 of them. Otherwise, 127 variations is good and 1000 (or more) is just marketing (as the 8K display for a smartphone).


Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: Pete14] #2878460 08/11/19 06:42 AM
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Is that a fact? Or is it "I read it on the internet so it must be true"?
Originally Posted by Pete14
Martha Argerich is known for playing over a thousand audible variations on a single note! She currently holds the record.
Barenboim is a close second (clocking in at 879 audible variations).

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: MacMacMac] #2878467 08/11/19 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Martha Argerich is known for playing over a thousand audible variations on a single note! She currently holds the record.
Barenboim is a close second (clocking in at 879 audible variations).

Reference?

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Is that a fact? Or is it "I read it on the internet so it must be true"?
Originally Posted by Pete14
Martha Argerich is known for playing over a thousand audible variations on a single note! She currently holds the record.
Barenboim is a close second (clocking in at 879 audible variations).

I googled and couldn’t even find an Internet reference, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one.


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2878471 08/11/19 07:25 AM
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As if though you’re not used to Pete’s humorous style smile


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