2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
39 members (Colette2, Beowulf, David Lai, CosminX, clothearednincompo, CyberGene, barbaram, 8 invisible), 394 guests, and 414 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Tyrone Slothrop #2877179 08/07/19 05:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 396
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

As an audiophile, I think the binaural sound of N1X is a make/break feature. But this is also probably because 80+% of the time, I use headphones with my piano. Someone who mostly plays their piano without headphones would likely not care about the binaural sound feature of the N1X/N3X.


Hey, don't forget to include the NU1X in that list as well! If we are talking about comparisons and price the NU1X is best comparison and it appears to be a few thousand less in the US. Of course the new NV5 appears to give you the gazillion features that other DP's have and the Avante Grande series does not. Along with the soundboard.


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877185 08/07/19 06:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,423
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,423
I think the much more important feature of NV5 is optical sensors on the hammers. That would truthfully measure the actual velocity of the hammers. NU1X measures velocity under the keys and that's why it's difficult to predict whether the hammers is actually hitting the rail, hence the loud note issue. That issue has since been fixed (?) or at least alleviated but I would prefer a solution with hammer sensors since that's the most natural way to measure hammer velocity: at the hammers, right smile That doesn't make NU1X not expressive enough or something and with the supposed fix they should be on par, however for a peace of mind the NV5 offers the better solution. Well, there's one advantage with key sensors and that's the ability to measure key-off velocity (which in the NU1X is actually more elaborate than that since it measures continuous position of the key/damper and would produce effect such as half-dampening through the keys, in addition to the more ubiquitous damper-pedal one).

Originally Posted by Kawai James
CyberGene, one of the Novus' goals is to reproduce the keyboard touch of an acoustic piano as closely as possible, hence the inclusion of the damper mechanism

Sure, as I said that's a fair point. The graded hammer weighting is also a feature that's of dubious advantage to the pianist. On the other hand it's a fixed weight that won't change dynamically, whereas with the dampers you have changing weight for each key throughout your playing. I guess one easily gets used to it, most of us have played real uprights and grands and never thought of that smile So, I was just hypothesizing and sorry for intruding this thread which is about a very nice new instrument. Let's move to the other one created by TS.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
navindra #2877189 08/07/19 06:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,402
P
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,402
Originally Posted by navindra
Congratulations James and Kawai on the beautiful release of the NV5!

I'm glad I have more time to enjoy the NV10 before the NV20 comes out!


It’s called the NV15, navindra. wink

Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877240 08/07/19 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,127
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,127
I wouldn't hold "binaural audio" as an important requirement for a digital piano or VI.

Most binaural music and piano sound systems are lousy; there is plenty of binaural audio on the internet to try for yourself. You can test drive PianoTeq's binaural system. Binaural audio production is difficult and the type of headphone and ear shape have a major impact on the binaural effect.

That said, the new Yamaha CFX binaural system is well liked. I would speculate that is due principally to excellent recording and processing vs. the "binaural audio" effect. Kawai's newest audio is well liked also.

Another case to try out several different models (with several different headphones) to decide what is best for you regarding action and sound.

Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
newer player #2877277 08/07/19 11:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,422
G
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,422
Originally Posted by Pete14


It’s called the NV15, navindra. wink


James only said it would likely be a "multiple of 5." NV-20 fits that just as well as NV-15 smile

Originally Posted by newer player
I wouldn't hold "binaural audio" as an important requirement for a digital piano or VI.


That's kind of what I'm thinking. There are a lot of poor binaural implementations out there, and some really excellent plain stereo renderings. Seeing all the talk in the N1X thread about how pivotal binaural sampling is, i'm left wondering whether people are actually impressed with the binaural aspect of it, or if Yamaha produced a really nice patch that just happens to be binaural, but would be just as impressive non-binaurally?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877279 08/07/19 11:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,423
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,423
Indeed, I've tried the binaural patch in Garritan CFX and it's meh. And the regular stereo classic patch is so nice through headphones. So, it's not whether it's binaural, it's just that Yamaha probably created a great patch. But you can't deny how many people (me included) share the same weird feeling of needing to check whether the sound they hear is actually coming from the headphones or they forgot the speakers on. I still do that from time to time. Which comes to prove the binaural effect is working.

Last edited by CyberGene; 08/07/19 11:50 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Gombessa #2877280 08/07/19 11:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
Originally Posted by Gombessa
[That's kind of what I'm thinking. There are a lot of poor binaural implementations out there, and some really excellent plain stereo renderings. Seeing all the talk in the N1X thread about how pivotal binaural sampling is, i'm left wondering whether people are actually impressed with the binaural aspect of it, or if Yamaha produced a really nice patch that just happens to be binaural?

Have you listened to it yourself? CFX through N1X's internal speakers are.... ok. meh. I've said before I prefer the piano sounds of the NV10 through speakers. CFX through my HD800 headphones are awesome. Headphone to headphone comparison between NV10 and N1X - for me, the N1X through headphones is clearly much better.

I assessed first-hand both speakers sound and headphone sound of the NV10 and N1X before I bought my N1X, and the binaural sound decided me. It was that much better.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Pete14 #2877282 08/07/19 11:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 550
N
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by navindra
Congratulations James and Kawai on the beautiful release of the NV5!

I'm glad I have more time to enjoy the NV10 before the NV20 comes out!


It’s called the NV15, navindra. wink


laugh I’m thinking NV20 or NV30 first. NV15 might come afterwards if Kawai wants to expand the line up.

Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877291 08/07/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 99
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 99
Oh man. Time to convince my wife that we need both an upstairs piano and a downstairs piano. Seriously, this looks like a wonderful instrument. I can’t wait to try one out. Congrats James and Kawai!


Current: Yamaha NU1X, Pianoteq & Logic; Yamaha Reface DX & YC
Past: Yamaha CP4, CME UF8, Roland A80, Roland MK80, Yamaha P22 upright
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
CyberGene #2877306 08/07/19 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 113
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.


A piano store in the Netherlands lists the NV-5 for € 6180. For comparison the same store sells the NU1X for € 4380 and the N1X for € 7480. See prices. So it is approximately in between. This will probably be similar in the rest of Europe.


Yamaha P-115 -> Kawai CA-58 -> Kawai K-300 ATX3
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
pianogabe #2877311 08/07/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.


A piano store in the Netherlands lists the NV-5 for € 6180. For comparison the same store sells the NU1X for € 4380 and the N1X for € 7480. See prices. So it is approximately in between. This will probably be similar in the rest of Europe.

Although it lacks binaural sound, it has an authentic damper pedal and a soundboard, which may justify the 40% price premium over the N1UX.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877313 08/07/19 01:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 796
U
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 796
I do love this move from Kawai! cool

Finally a true competitor to the NU1X, I think that's great! I can't wait to try it out and see which one I like better.

One thing i already like is the design, i like the design without toeblocks even tough it's probably a bit more fragile, if you have kids for example. It looks great, that said.. personally i like the real acoustic cabinet from the CS11 even better, but they are both beautiful to me so no dealbreakers there. In my opinion the NV10 is the best looker out of the hybrid grands too, Kawai got the looks down, if you ask me.

I also very much appreciate the real damper system. Too early to jump to conclusions, but maybe that would make this the best digital (upright) piano if your goal is to practice playing acoustic as well as possible?

Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Tyrone Slothrop #2877327 08/07/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 396
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.


A piano store in the Netherlands lists the NV-5 for € 6180. For comparison the same store sells the NU1X for € 4380 and the N1X for € 7480. See prices. So it is approximately in between. This will probably be similar in the rest of Europe.

Although it lacks binaural sound, it has an authentic damper pedal and a soundboard, which may justify the 40% price premium over the N1UX.


It will be interesting to try it out, of course that assumes that I ever come across a Kawai dealer that would actually stock such a thing. Not sure about the damper pedal but for me when I was comparing the CA78 to CA98 I didn't think the soundboard was worth the additional cost. Definitely not worth a 40% premium.

For me I think the big difference is that it has all of the other stuff as far as controls and voices and such along with a touch screen. The NU1X UI, if you can call it that, is spartan at best. I actually like it because all I ever do is just turn it on and play but I know for a lot of people the lack of the other options is a deal breaker. Still nice to have another hybrid upright out there. I wonder how long until the Kawai N3X competitor is released? Can you say NV15?


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Peddler100 #2877336 08/07/19 01:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 234
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by oneilt130
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

As an audiophile, I think the binaural sound of N1X is a make/break feature. But this is also probably because 80+% of the time, I use headphones with my piano. Someone who mostly plays their piano without headphones would likely not care about the binaural sound feature of the N1X/N3X.


Hey, don't forget to include the NU1X in that list as well! If we are talking about comparisons and price the NU1X is best comparison and it appears to be a few thousand less in the US. Of course the new NV5 appears to give you the gazillion features that other DP's have and the Avante Grande series does not. Along with the soundboard.


Good points, well worth thinking about for people who are considering a future mid-range piano purchase. In our rural state in the U.S. there isn't a single store that yet stocks the NU1X, but I've played the NU1 and I rather liked it. Obviously the NU1X would be better, and is probably worth the $6,000 USD that its selling for, but there's one drawback to it that I'm not happy about--its limited voice selection. If I'm going to keep a new digital piano for as much as eight years before upgrading, this is going to be really irritating. Assuming the NV5 measures up (which I'm sure it will) that drawback will be nicely addressed.

If the NV5 is priced within $500 of the NU1X in America, I'll try both models out extensively, and I think Kawai is going to have the upper hand. It means driving hundreds of miles to a major city to find these pianos, but there's nothing to be done about it.

Last edited by ADWyatt; 08/07/19 01:51 PM.
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877363 08/07/19 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,365
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,365
Since James confirmed (j/k) that the N3X was the best hybrid grand *for now*, I'd put money on that coming out as the NV20 rather than the NV15. Knowing marketing folks as I do, 20 sounds more like a "1-up" over the NV10. So there you go, my prediction is the next Novus to come out will be the NV20 which will be a grand cabinet with Millennium III action and then "something" else added to make it more compelling than just a cabinet change. A haptic vibration system perhaps?


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877367 08/07/19 03:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,226
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,226
I wouldn't expect any follow-on NV pianos for a while. The NV10 hasn't been out two years yet, and the NV5 hasn't even shipped.

Look at the Avant Grand line. Three main tiers with two or three revision/replacements over a span of about ten years.

I don't think the next NV is imminent. The market won't support too many ... and Kawai knows it.

Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
MacMacMac #2877391 08/07/19 04:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wouldn't expect any follow-on NV pianos for a while. The NV10 hasn't been out two years yet, and the NV5 hasn't even shipped.

Look at the Avant Grand line. Three main tiers with two or three revision/replacements over a span of about ten years.

I don't think the next NV is imminent. The market won't support too many ... and Kawai knows it.

Well, for the Avantgrands the press releases for the different models were dated:
  • N2 & N3: May 7, 2009
  • N1: Jan 13, 2011
  • NU1: Sep 17, 2012
  • N3X: Jan 19, 2017
  • NU1X: Jan 25, 2018
  • N1X: Jan 24, 2019

So the initial 4 models of the Avantgrand were announced over a span of 40 months. For Kawai, the NV10 was announced Oct 20, 2017 and the NV5 was announced today - so 2 models in the Novus line over 22 months. So there certainly seems to be room to release another, probably more advanced Novus, in the next 12-18 months. Say an NV10 but with the addition of a soundboard, and maybe a bell or two more. This would not be a replacement of the NV10, but a new product like the NV5 - one at the higher end. There might be a reasonable hope by the time of your retirement, there might be an NV15 or NV20 kicking around.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Tyrone Slothrop #2877400 08/07/19 05:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,422
G
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,422
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Have you listened to it yourself? CFX through N1X's internal speakers are.... ok. meh. I've said before I prefer the piano sounds of the NV10 through speakers. CFX through my HD800 headphones are awesome. Headphone to headphone comparison between NV10 and N1X - for me, the N1X through headphones is clearly much better.


Is the binaural output on the N3X as well? If so, then I have. If not, then no.

But your question doesn't really get at what I was positing--is it the "binaural" nature of the AGs that people like so much, or is it just the quality of the patch? Whether I've heard or liked the binaural output on the AG is somewhat irrelevant, IMO. Some seem to be quick to list "lack of binuaral sound" as a minus on the Novuses (Novi?), but that feature could be completely orthogonal to what they actually want (a realistic, convincing piano sound through headphones, perhaps one that they like better than the existing SK-EX rendering output, even if it's traditionally recorded). Again, taking Garritan CFX as an example, I tried the binaural recording perspective one, and never bothered to use it again. So if that was the patch included in the NV5, it would fulfill "binaural audio" requirement, but perhaps still end up being "meh."


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
Kawai James #2877407 08/07/19 05:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,423
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,423
I think someone confirmed (maybe even Jeff Hurchalla) that the binaural patch in Gartitan CFX is messed up with distant and close microphones having swapped left/right channels which is the reason for it not sounding good. And the binaural Nord patch is a big hit. So I think “binaural” might be good exactly because it’s binaural. Pianoteq isn’t a good example because they have other more important things to improve, so their binaural mics might not be representative (or well implemented at all) on how good binaural is.

Last edited by CyberGene; 08/07/19 05:36 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano
CyberGene #2877408 08/07/19 05:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,695
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I think someone confirmed (maybe even Jeff Hurchalla) that the binaural patch in Gartitan CFX is messed up with distant and close microphones having swapped left/right channels which is the reason for it not sounding good.

Wow! That would completely trash it! But if they have the original recordings from each mic, am I wrong in thinking they could fix this?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Page 3 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano Books
by Colette2 - 05/26/20 04:39 AM
CFX Grand Config File
by gfd - 05/26/20 01:34 AM
Why do I find recording so painful?
by ClsscLib - 05/25/20 11:11 PM
IMTA Levels question
by GHN - 05/25/20 10:59 PM
Unknown piano?
by Steven-dam - 05/25/20 10:19 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics199,189
Posts2,962,158
Members97,191
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4