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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
CyberGene #2877288 08/07/19 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
...and then send it to Tyrone to export it with VSL D for me laugh

You sure can. Since I am just a beginner pianist, I just really don't think anything I am playing is exportable (except maybe for the quarterly PW Adult Beginner Forum recitals). Which is why rendering is really not so interesting to me, live playing is. So I would be happy to export on request more substantial works of more advanced pianists than me, on request! thumb


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877290 08/07/19 12:00 PM
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Awww, I wish they had a trial version so I could try it with my PC before buying it smirk though 200 GB of space sounds terrifying. That's more than the whole GTA franchise.

The problem with renderings (do I assume correctly that you first record your midi on something like pianoteq and then import this midi to VSL and render it with that sound if your PC is not strong enough for live run?) is that I always control the sound based on what I hear. I never just slap a preset over my recording, I play it again with what I hear...

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877292 08/07/19 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
The problem with renderings (do I assume correctly that you first record your midi on something like pianoteq and then import this midi to VSL and render it with that sound if your PC is not strong enough for live run?) is that I always control the sound based on what I hear. I never just slap a preset over my recording, I play it again with what I hear...

Yes, exactly, that's a problem and we've discussed it before. A good pianist would dynamically alter his playing and touch in response to what he hears from the piano, the way it builds-up the sound, the way half-pedaling responds, the way resonances are created... It's not such a simple task to record a MIDI file while listening to one piano/software and then just render it in another and expect a good result straight out. The MIDI specification is too vague and there's no standard. All that being said, the Bach piece above was actually from an e-competition which (correct me if I'm wrong) was recorded on a Yamaha Disclavier piano (a real grand piano with MIDI capabilities which can also replay the recorded files with solenoids that actuate the keys and pedals) and it seems that MIDI file sounds great when rendered with the VSL Steinway D, so with a bit of luck a rendering might not be the worst idea. Yet...


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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
CyberGene #2877294 08/07/19 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
The problem with renderings (do I assume correctly that you first record your midi on something like pianoteq and then import this midi to VSL and render it with that sound if your PC is not strong enough for live run?) is that I always control the sound based on what I hear. I never just slap a preset over my recording, I play it again with what I hear...

Yes, exactly, that's a problem and we've discussed it before. A good pianist would dynamically alter his playing and touch in response to what he hears from the piano, the way it builds-up the sound, the way half-pedaling responds, the way resonances are created...

Wow. The two of you even strengthen my feeling about why I'm more interested in VSTs for live playing than rendering!


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Tyrone Slothrop #2877298 08/07/19 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
The problem with renderings (do I assume correctly that you first record your midi on something like pianoteq and then import this midi to VSL and render it with that sound if your PC is not strong enough for live run?) is that I always control the sound based on what I hear. I never just slap a preset over my recording, I play it again with what I hear...

Yes, exactly, that's a problem and we've discussed it before. A good pianist would dynamically alter his playing and touch in response to what he hears from the piano, the way it builds-up the sound, the way half-pedaling responds, the way resonances are created...

Wow. The two of you even strengthen my feeling about why I'm more interested in VSTs for live playing than rendering!


Well, after playing on various pianos and digital pianos, I'm kinda more interested about what comes out of it right here, right now and how it responds to my command. I would appreciate if that would be the best sound there is, so I'm not that impressed with the possibility of "maybe sometime later" render my recording on something I didn't hear when I was playing it (I'm not even recording that much). That being said, that Bach recording is lovely. Honestly I couldn't tell what exactly that is (I would say "okay" if you said it was recorded on a real piano), but I guess that's normal with sampled sound (in some way it really is a real piano, except for the input which isn't a key, but a key attached to the electronics, attached to that sound). It would be much more impressive if we could achieve this with a simulation (like in Pianoteq) and in real time, without having to sample hudreds of GB. But hey, it's good to know how much "data" is a grand piano worth - about 200GB smile

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
CyberGene #2877314 08/07/19 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
Oh wow, that VSL D-274 is really beautiful, how do I get such sound? shocked shocked

Well, unfortunately it's expensive (€540 for the full versions and to my understanding it's the full version that his patch is made for? + €24 for the USB protection key) and requires rather powerful computer... So, it seems I will stay with my N1X smile But I may record some stuff on my N1X and then send it to Tyrone to export it with VSL D for me laugh


I use the cheapo version of the three Synchron pianos, and it never occurred that I needed more mic positions. I can't imagine any situation in which I'd use that many mics to record a piano. Some of the most popular ways for recording classical piano music are missing either way.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
johnstaf #2877318 08/07/19 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
Oh wow, that VSL D-274 is really beautiful, how do I get such sound? shocked shocked

Well, unfortunately it's expensive (€540 for the full versions and to my understanding it's the full version that his patch is made for? + €24 for the USB protection key) and requires rather powerful computer... So, it seems I will stay with my N1X smile But I may record some stuff on my N1X and then send it to Tyrone to export it with VSL D for me laugh


I use the cheapo version of the three Synchron pianos, and it never occurred that I needed more mic positions. I can't imagine any situation in which I'd use that many mics to record a piano. Some of the most popular ways for recording classical piano music are missing either way.

Thanks John! That’s useful info. And the full bundle is tempting since it includes three great pianos.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877320 08/07/19 01:20 PM
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Would I be able to play it live with 16GB RAM and i7 4790K? My PC is 6 years old but still packs a punch...

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Tyrone Slothrop #2877328 08/07/19 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ Thanks! Very tempted to buy the VSL Steinway D, with these settings it sounds exactly like a top-quality piano recording.

I agree! It sounds great but very wet! Although the 10 microphones setting, I am regretting not ordering 64GB of RAM for my custom-built computer. Because of sorrownightingale's links, I've reached out to my builder about swapping the 32GB RAM cards for 64GB... The processor will be fast enough - AMD Ryzen 3900X, 3rd gen - but I think 32GB will not be enough for 10 microphones.

OK. My builder has agreed to up my system RAM to 64GB from 32GB since there are still 2 RAM slots unused, although he insisted he wanted to read about where/who said I would need more than 32GB RAM, so I just sent him the VSL forum site. LOL. Amazing how hard it is sometimes to get people to take your money! laugh


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877331 08/07/19 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
Would I be able to play it live with 16GB RAM and i7 4790K? My PC is 6 years old but still packs a punch...

According to John and others you would be good with 16GB RAM and that CPU if you don’t use too many microphones simultaneously.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877337 08/07/19 02:02 PM
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CG: Some people say "enough is enough".
Others say "enough is whatever I can afford".
Tyrone says "it's never enough". smile

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877338 08/07/19 02:06 PM
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CyberGene...

My VSL D-274 patch 4Mics, Chopin Ballade Nº4 in F minor Op. 52,

Mp3

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao4ZOLlCXwBRhIdrr_iO74Kr9dfQ5g

Wav

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao4ZOLlCXwBRhIds7zeFb6EDZlmkzg

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877342 08/07/19 02:23 PM
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^ Another nice one! I’d be interested in hearing also renditions with VSL CFX. The demos on VSL website are so reverb heavy all is smeared.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
MacMacMac #2877349 08/07/19 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
CG: Some people say "enough is enough".
Others say "enough is whatever I can afford".
Tyrone says "it's never enough". smile

CyberGene, his lovely wife, and johnstaf have met me in person. Ask them if I seem like a person that says "it's never enough." Now my wife on the other hand... wink


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Tyrone Slothrop #2877352 08/07/19 02:48 PM
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Indeed, Tyrone, you might be creating a wrong online impression laugh But you’re also creating a wrong one about your wife! Cheers smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Tyrone Slothrop #2877356 08/07/19 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
CG: Some people say "enough is enough".
Others say "enough is whatever I can afford".
Tyrone says "it's never enough". smile

CyberGene, his lovely wife, and johnstaf have met me in person. Ask them if I seem like a person that says "it's never enough." Now my wife on the other hand... wink


My mother used to say that it was a good thing I was never rich, as I would have blown it all and ended up millions in debt. Perhaps I'm not the person to ask, but Tyrone is a very sensible man.
thumb

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
CyberGene #2877357 08/07/19 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
But you’re also creating a wrong one about your wife! Cheers smile

True! It's bad timing, as my wallet is running scared right about now, since she wants me to buy one of those little cars that can drive on the bicycle lanes in Amsterdam in the next few days. Ouch. I really wanted to say to her, "Dear, something that can drive in the bicycle lanes in Amsterdam that is about 50x cheaper is.... a bicycle!" laugh

For the price of a glorified 4-wheel moped with a plastic cover, I could buy a really nice, used acoustic piano smile


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877368 08/07/19 03:35 PM
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Jajajaj, Ok CyberGene...

VSL CFX Full Library 6 Mics patch Fantasy & fugue D minor:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao4ZOLlCXwBRhIdu26nlh0QIl2FO5g

VSL CFX Full library 5 Mics patch Ballade Nº4 in F minor op52 Chopin:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao4ZOLlCXwBRhIdt45n7WLNB2PklfA

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877382 08/07/19 04:15 PM
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^ Thanks. The Bach’s piece is a bit dry. It’s so much better on the D. However the ballade is fantastic with the CFX! It was already excellent with the D but it’s more coherent and alive on the CFX. Maybe it’s about the patches. But I’m already convinced CFX pianos are top-class source material smile Hopefully some day I may have the chance to play a real one even if for just 5 minutes.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2877387 08/07/19 04:33 PM
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My personal experience with VSL D is that I can’t reliably run more than 3 mics. I’m hosting Synchron piano in Logic Pro X and I’m using a 2017 15 inch Macbook Pro.

My bottleneck is the CPU. It’s fine to play slow passage but VSL is not handling fast passages well with 4 mics. It starts clicking after one page of fast passage which ruins the whole experience. With 3 mics I don’t get the same rich reverb that I get from Garritan so I ended up playing Garritan CFX.

I’m running the full version with 2 close mics and 1 high surround mic. It gives me a convincing close mic sound but the piano itself is a little bit bright.

Last edited by Harpuia; 08/07/19 04:35 PM.
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