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What if Chopin had MIDI? #2877346
08/07/19 02:38 PM
08/07/19 02:38 PM
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Posts: 4,068
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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Seriously, it was actually possible but they didn’t use it and it is such a missed opportunity! frown

I’m serious and here’s what I mean. I just came up with an idea for pretty easy solution that would allow for any of those classical composers/pianists, even baroque ones, to record their performances for us to listen today.

It works like how seismograph works or ECG, etc: attach a small pencil at the end of each key and run a rolling paper with constant speed. Each press of the key will draw a curve which ultimately represents position of the key in any moment hence you can derive velocity. Well, they wouldn’t have used it to reproduce music but we could’ve scanned the paper today and produce a MIDI file smile Nice, huh?


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877350
08/07/19 02:45 PM
08/07/19 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Seriously, it was actually possible but they didn’t use it and it is such a missed opportunity! frown

I’m serious and here’s what I mean. I just came up with an idea for pretty easy solution that would allow for any of those classical composers/pianists, even baroque ones, to record their performances for us to listen today.

It works like how seismograph works or ECG, etc: attach a small pencil at the end of each key and run a rolling paper with constant speed. Each press of the key will draw a curve which ultimately represents position of the key in any moment hence you can derive velocity. Well, they wouldn’t have used it to reproduce music but we could’ve scanned the paper today and produce a MIDI file smile Nice, huh?

Cool idea, but sadly, they obviously didn't have the foresight. Alas!


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877351
08/07/19 02:46 PM
08/07/19 02:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,162
Dublin
johnstaf Offline
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Seriously, it was actually possible but they didn’t use it and it is such a missed opportunity! frown

I’m serious and here’s what I mean. I just came up with an idea for pretty easy solution that would allow for any of those classical composers/pianists, even baroque ones, to record their performances for us to listen today.

It works like how seismograph works or ECG, etc: attach a small pencil at the end of each key and run a rolling paper with constant speed. Each press of the key will draw a curve which ultimately represents position of the key in any moment hence you can derive velocity. Well, they wouldn’t have used it to reproduce music but we could’ve scanned the paper today and produce a MIDI file smile Nice, huh?


That would be great!


Another thing, had someone had the spark of inspiration, sound recording would have been possible hundreds of years earlier, as it didn't require any advanced technology. Just clockwork and wax.

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877355
08/07/19 02:54 PM
08/07/19 02:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,068
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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Yeah, wax for audio recording! Easy to do (although as with my “MIDI” idea would have been hard to replay with their technology, hence nobody did it)


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877371
08/07/19 03:39 PM
08/07/19 03:39 PM
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navindra Online content
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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: navindra] #2877372
08/07/19 03:46 PM
08/07/19 03:46 PM
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Posts: 2
Allen, Texas
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Christopher Sajdak Offline
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This is pretty amazing:

Hear Debussy Play Debussy: A Vintage Recording from 1913
http://www.openculture.com/2013/01/...t_composers_playing_returns_to_life.html


Yamaha N3X, U1, Motif8
Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877379
08/07/19 04:02 PM
08/07/19 04:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,068
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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CyberGene  Offline OP
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I know about piano rolls but they were already good enough to be used for replaying them which would have been slightly more difficult in the early 19-th century.


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877441
08/07/19 07:45 PM
08/07/19 07:45 PM
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SE USA
WhoDwaldi Offline
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He would have done even more elaborate fiorituras. 😆


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Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877598
08/08/19 10:15 AM
08/08/19 10:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
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Andrew_G Offline
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Some composers did not need MIDI due to phenomenal memory. Mozart and Rachmaninoff are examples. Similar examples exist in mathematics and other human activities. For writing they were able to put in what is already formed in their mind, without any drafts.

A possibility of performing written music automatically, which is elementary today due to MIDI, could help them share and discuss a new music with non-musicians (though I think Chopin did not need this).

However...
This possibility provides to millions, independently of their musical knowledge, cultural, emotional or historical education, training or talent, a possibility to produce and share sound tracks.

Is this good? Yes and No!

Along with really good music today we are overwhelmed by a host of musical debris. Alas! This analogy leads me to inventing new terms: Musbris, Soundbris, Videobris...

In Chopin time this was impossible!




Last edited by Andrew_G; 08/08/19 10:24 AM.
Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877609
08/08/19 10:23 AM
08/08/19 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,068
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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^ I think you missed the point entirely smile It's not for us to hear Chopin's compositions, we've already heard them millions of times in zillions of interpretations. MIDI is not used for music notation. What's really interesting is to see how Chopin himself played his pieces which would be apparent from a recorded MIDI performance containing his phrasing, legato, pedaling, tempos, rubato, general feel, etc. But maybe I wasn't clear in my original post, sorry if that's the case.


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877614
08/08/19 10:28 AM
08/08/19 10:28 AM
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Oh... sorry

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877658
08/08/19 12:45 PM
08/08/19 12:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,442
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Overall, musical standards have dropped considerably. At one time you had to compose a symphony to earn your degree. smile


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877664
08/08/19 01:07 PM
08/08/19 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 361
magicpiano Offline
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Yes, it would be very nice to know exactly how a great artist of the past played his own pieces. And how did Paganini played its Stradivari? I think no midi track that could record that...

Sometimes I wonder too, in a fantasy world, what if Chopin had tried a digital piano? Perhaps he would say: "The lid! Open the lid! Where does the lid open? It sounds so boxy!".

And what he would say of piano modeling, Pianoteq, piano sampling, etc.? Perhaps he would say: "What the... Give me my Pleyel! Or at least an Erard!". laugh

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: magicpiano] #2877667
08/08/19 01:21 PM
08/08/19 01:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,068
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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CyberGene  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Sometimes I wonder too, in a fantasy world, what if Chopin had tried a digital piano? Perhaps he would say: "The lid! Open the lid! Where does the lid open? It sounds so boxy!".

Ha, funny, I also often fantasize around that theme laugh Like for instance Bach suddenly appeared in my living room but alone and he sees the N1X, he somehow realizes it's a keyboard instrument, opens the lid and sees keyboard and is so fascinated but it doesn't make any sound! But he won't just stop, he would eventually press the power button, he will realize it's some weird instrument that makes unknown to him sound (in hist last years he played a few fortepianos) but never a clean sound such as the CFX sampling, never so heavy keys (?) which are then so dynamic and expressive. He would try the pedals and would realize the sustain pedal allows for some interesting effects which he's not ever imagined. His music has almost always been polyphonic but using the sustain pedal allows for some nice arpeggios to be created that span the entire keyboard, what he would improvise wink

I have also imagined if I'm somehow sent back in the past with my music library and I am allowed to show to Bach the classical music history, what pieces I should show to him, whether he would like them. What kind of modern music he might like: jazz, avant-garde, grandiose romantic symphonies laugh


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877676
08/08/19 01:39 PM
08/08/19 01:39 PM
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magicpiano Offline
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Or maybe he would say: "Oh my, why did they cut the back of this harpsichord? It is normal that it does not sound... It has no strings!"... laugh

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877705
08/08/19 02:39 PM
08/08/19 02:39 PM
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Jethro Online content
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He would say geez even a piano built as recent as the 1750's has more velocity layers than this crap.


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877707
08/08/19 02:48 PM
08/08/19 02:48 PM
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Pete14 Offline
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Bach would neither be surprised nor upset over this ‘machine’. He would sit in front of it and at some point, as CG says, press the power button. A sound is reproduced by subsequently pressing a key, and very matter-of-facty Bach goes to work on yet another masterpiece.
Chopin, on the other hand, would have a much harder time figuring out the power button, but eventually George Sand would figure it out and power-on the thing. Chopin would then sit and play a note. Hating the experience, he would label the machine ‘a diabolical entity’ that should never see the light of day. He would then go back to his Pleyel, and very sadly (he never smiled) compose yet another redundant etude!

Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: Jethro] #2877710
08/08/19 02:54 PM
08/08/19 02:54 PM
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Posts: 4,068
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jethro
He would say geez even a piano built as recent as the 1750's has more velocity layers than this crap.

Bach is known to play the harpsichord and the organ. They all have 1 layer. He would be more than happy with the 127 velocity layers of the N1X. He might even discover the obscure function + some key combination to change the touch to fixed and finally find peace smile


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877748
08/08/19 04:22 PM
08/08/19 04:22 PM
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Celestis
Granyala Online content
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Celestis
If the composers of old had modern technology?
The result would have been insane pieces no human could ever hope to play.

Midi for playback is one thing, Midi for editing/layering is a whole other ballgame.


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Re: What if Chopin had MIDI? [Re: CyberGene] #2877758
08/08/19 04:54 PM
08/08/19 04:54 PM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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We had midis back in the 1960s, along with minis and maxis. Did Chopin? smile

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