Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895

Thanks karvala for ur sharing!
I think the feelings are just what we need, the sound of history.
That's the charm and diversity the VSTs can provided.
I will try it tmr.

Amen!

I'm downloading it right now. It will take about 13 more hours because of my slow internet.

I'm looking forward to the Karvala Blüthner patch.

God Bless,
David

Thank you for the first impressions and for the hint regarding the bundle price. That is indeed a nice price. I hadn't planned on getting this but for that price I might go for it.

Great first impression Karvala.

I'm still undecided about buying it - just a little bit unconvinced about the playability (the samples are half the size per mic compared to the CFX and D).
It has probably half the number of layers of the CFX (or D) but as you seem to hint at it's probably the right technical choice - period instruments have a more limited dynamic and timbre range.

It would be a great addition for classical period music though: the Pathetique in the demos sounds so 'right' on this piano!

This has always puzzle me because I've never been exposed:I've never seen or heard a piano from the late 19th century (or mid 19th ... or early 19th) ... so I don't know what such a piano sounds like. Are there any such pianos around anymore?

Not sure. A quick read of VSLs info pages indicates number of samples per mic is 25% bigger and installed size in GB per mic is 100% bigger (Concert D vs Blüthner).

Not sure why the installed size in GB per mic is so different. I would guess the Concert D having: 25% more samples (partly due to more keys?), more pedal options, longer samples? Assuming no change in file format (e.g. 44.1/16) or compression scheme.

PER VSL
The Concert D full library has
11 "microphone positions",
219,417 samples,
266.3 GB installed size.

The Blüthner 1895 full library has
"8 microphones",
124,464 samples,
98.6GB installed size.

CALCULATED (Assuming 88 keys for both pianos)
Installed size per mic position 24.2GB vs 12.3GB. About 97% more.

VSL states the Concert D has, "Almost 20,000 samples per microphone position" (I calculate almost 16,000 for Blüthner 1895). About 25% more.

FYI VSL states the Concert D has, "over 4,000 samples per key" (I calculate 291,417/88 = 2493; maybe VSL is counting the stereo mics 2x?)

That `Half size` you mention here is more than any other sample piano on the market has, every VSL piano is a sample and velocity monster, and every one of them are very playable.

newer player, good points - I didn't consider the number of samples.
The smaller installed size, compared to the D, it's probably due to the shorter sustain, as you mention.

See what you did? Now you've taken away my doubts and I HAVE to get a copy...

The release samples are presumably smaller as well, owing to the shorter reverb time.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the comments.



Happy to share once I've created some.



Yes, but not many of good quality and in good condition. Early 20th century Broadwood uprights in shoddy condition are found in practically every village hall in the UK and sound horrendous for the most part. Late 19th century concert grands in top condition are indeed a rarity, though, and often in collections. I used to play the pianos in the Finchcocks collection occasionally; they're mostly earlier than that but they do have some late 19th century instruments there too.



Playability is surprisingly good considering the source material and definitely doesn't feel to be limited by the sampling. I find that period instruments with somewhat unpredictable tone and dynamics are inherently more limited in their playability anyway, and that feels like the only limitation here.

Music from the classical period is indeed fun on it (even if not entirely authentic!); it somehow adds to the atmosphere. You might appreciate the additional clarity the lower reverb/resonance brings when playing Bach or Scarlatti as well. It's also fun to play Rachmaninoff or Debussy with the notion that this is the type of instrument they might have been using themselves (also not strictly accurate, since it wouldn't have been over 100 years old when they were playing, but still!). It is a bit of a novelty instrument, but of the various period instruments I have it's the only one that goes beyond that and has potential for everyday use.



Yeah, I agree this is likely to be the case. The reverb time is significantly shorter.

Here are a couple of youtube videos from the Chopin Competition on Period Instruments. These are rare and perfectly restored instruments.

The piano is an Erard, built in 1837 - twelve years before Chopin death in 1849 - so quite representative of the state of the art at the time:
Chopin Sonata in B flat minor

Here the piano is a Pleyel - Chopin's favorite - built in 1842:
Chopin Polonaise in A flat major

Thanks for these links Erard. I have to admit I find it hard to enjoy the sound of these recordings. My ears have gotten used to contemporary grand pianos too much. It fells to me as if something is lacking. Very interesting that Chopin wrote on such instruments.

I also bought the Bluethner...
Guys, would it be possible scale tunning on synchron pianos?, Bluethner with Werckmeister or Kirnberger tunning for Bach would be great!!

I’ve been interested in this topic for a long time, since Chopin is my favorite composer but ultimately I never managed to like those period instruments, and so I share the same feeling. To me they sound almost like honky-tonk or ragtime pianos and it’s interesting indeed that Chopin wrote on such instruments.

Yes, it is possible - you have to enter the deviation in cents on each group of notes (all the As, all the A#s etc.) for the historical tuning.
On the main screen, click on Edit, then click on Tuning on the right over the virtual keyboard. Click on a note selector (white/grey area over the keyboard) and now you can modify the value in Note tuning (in cents).

It's quite a cumbersome process, but it is doable. This tuning facility is not meant to be used for historical tunings, but to tune the piano to your liking.
I asked Paul about historical tunings, and he replied that "a more advanced tuning option with different tuning-tables is on our to-do-list".
This was over a year ago.

You have to tune each note individually. There's no simpler way.

It's even more extreme of course for "authentic" Mozart. I prefer a concert grand.

I like the Blüthner, as it's mostly a modern piano.

I'm really enjoying this Bluthner. It has a nice clarity and smoothness to it. It doesn't have the power in the low end like the VSL CFX does, but it feels very authentic. It almost feels more acoustic than the other VSL pianos I have. I think it might have to do with the smaller studio they sampled it in and probably because I play 6ft acoustic grands on occasion. It feels more intimate like this is actually a piano you'd have in your home. Also, the Aliquot system really adds a beautiful resonance to the upper register.

I'm waiting for Karvala to send me his patches because he really brings out the best in my VSL pianos. For now, here is a modified version of the Player/Sur preset. I've added the Ribbon and Condenser mics but kept everything else the same. It diminishes some of the clarity, but adds more body to the piano and sounds more powerful coming through my speakers at home.

Here is a simple little hymn I arranged using some basics from my Duane Shinn course.



God bless,
David

Nice playing David!

Well played David - I can hear you are really 'feeling' this instrument. Great tone & depth. This Bluthner could be my first foray into VSL!