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How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos #2874907
08/01/19 01:03 PM
08/01/19 01:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 8
Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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cribeiroalexander  Offline OP
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I have a piano with weak hammer butt springs, weak enough that they dont let off when they key is pressed softly and just rests on the strings not allowing them to vibrate. How do you replace the hammer butt springs on an asian type piano, thanks.

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Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2874917
08/01/19 01:27 PM
08/01/19 01:27 PM
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Oakland
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We discussed this, with my solution, here.

However, you may have a problem with the backcheck distance being too short.


Semipro Tech
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: BDB] #2875017
08/01/19 06:49 PM
08/01/19 06:49 PM
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Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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The piano you guys are talking about has a spring rail, my doesnt have spring rail, my piano action has the string loops on the butt flange with the spring hooked on it like the Yamahas. I wish my piano had a spring rail it would have been easier for me to work, like you mentioned i could have done the whole action in hour, but not with my piano
action unfortunately
Thanks👍

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875023
08/01/19 07:04 PM
08/01/19 07:04 PM
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The method I suggested replaces the loops with a rail, but the springs are on the butt, not on the rail.

Spring rails themselves take much longer than replacing the springs on a loop system. With the loops, you remove the thread that holds the springs in place, put a new spring there, and replace the thread, which is the hard part. Someone long ago suggested using dental floss for the thread. That might work.

Since you have a Yamaha, is it the springs which are bad, or the loops? The loops are a common problem, but they can be replaced somewhat easily. One of the difficulties is cutting the thread to length, but if you carefully wrap the thread around a piece of cardboard the width of the length of the loop 44 or more times, and then cut the cardboard and the thread exactly in half, you will get threads exactly the right size, enough for an entire set.


Semipro Tech
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: BDB] #2875025
08/01/19 07:09 PM
08/01/19 07:09 PM
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Posts: 8
Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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Yeah everything is fine the loops are really good condition, the only problem is that the springs are too weak (not allowing the hammers to let off), and i want to replace them with stronger ones, and there is no video on how to replace those on the loop system .

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875030
08/01/19 07:26 PM
08/01/19 07:26 PM
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If you think that it is easy to source different springs, you are out of your depth. How much experience do you have?


Semipro Tech
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875036
08/01/19 07:47 PM
08/01/19 07:47 PM
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Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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Im not very experienced all the maintenance ive done was by me educating myself through youtube(howardpianoindustries) and websites it is my first acoustic piano i bought it off someone on offerup, anyway i have successfully done lots of work on the piano, i tuned the piano and i realigned the hammers i aligned the dampers and had them leveled(strings were vibrating after letting of the pedal or key)lubricated key pins and balance rail pins, adjusted back checks lubricated the jacks and the hammer butt felt, whats left for me to do now is to do some voicing, but ill leave that to the professionals since its a hard and delicate task to complete, i can source the hammer butt springs from Howardpianoindustries right here: https://www.ebay.com/i/121207736938...PxNBJK8ZvbAWbUoxiU2MAhJS7TRoCfi0QAvD_BwE

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875085
08/01/19 09:28 PM
08/01/19 09:28 PM
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New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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It is relatively easy to replace those springs. You will need to acquire a supply of the soft cord that holds the spring in. Howard industries should be able to supply it.

1) Remove the butt

2) Drill out the soft cord holding the current spring in

3) Twist the end of the new cord to a point and harden it with CA glue or hot hide glue

4) Put tge new spring in place and thread the cord through the hole, then the spring, then the opposite hole.

5) Pull it through to the end and cut flush with a razor blade.

Done

Repeat 87 more times. Then go have lunch.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875087
08/01/19 09:38 PM
08/01/19 09:38 PM
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Oakland
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I do not think that the cord is glued, nor should the replacement be glued.

I also am dubious whether the new springs would be better than the old.


Semipro Tech
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: P W Grey] #2875088
08/01/19 09:43 PM
08/01/19 09:43 PM
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Posts: 8
Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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Yeah i did notice it had a cord instead of a pin, it made sense of why it didnt slide out when i tried to push it out, is there is specific name for this cord so i can look up in his store, Thanks

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875093
08/01/19 09:49 PM
08/01/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 8
Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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Yeah im going to purchase them, and ill test in a couple of spots to see if they are any better, and if it lets off the way it should, then ill continue the process

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875199
08/02/19 08:12 AM
08/02/19 08:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,606
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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New Hampshire
Have you tried simply strengthening the spring?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: P W Grey] #2875538
08/03/19 05:02 AM
08/03/19 05:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
France
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ulrichg Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
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France
I do as P W Grey

Originally Posted by P W Grey

1) Remove the butt

2) Drill out the soft cord holding the current spring in

3) Twist the end of the new cord to a point and harden it with CA glue or hot hide glue

4) Put tge new spring in place and thread the cord through the hole, then the spring, then the opposite hole.

5) Pull it through to the end and cut flush with a razor blade.

Done

Repeat 87 more times. Then go have lunch.

Pwg


Don't misunderstand : the cord isn't glued in the hole, that's the end that is glued to have a hard tip to go through holes.

I didn't read if someone mentioned it, but it's two types of hammer butt-spring : left, and right ; which one you use depends of the side of the groove.

You also may have to adapt the length and the angle of the spring before installing, with nose pliers for example


Ulrich Guillerm, Piano technician, owner

Ti Piano

France
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: P W Grey] #2875874
08/04/19 03:23 AM
08/04/19 03:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 8
Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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cribeiroalexander  Offline OP
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Miami, Florida
Yeah i strengthened them, it did improve but they are still a tad bit sloppy, repition is still slow compared to other uprights i played. i also noticed in the other uprights that the hammer bounce is much more controlled, to test the theory i detached their springs from the loop in the school upright i played again, and it started doing what my piano does i reattach it and its back to normal, which bring me into the conclusion that the culprit of this issue is the hammer butt springs. anyway, i strengthened it by bending the springs in an angle and partially solved the problem is more bearable at least the hammers no longer rest on the string when the key is pressed softly.

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875884
08/04/19 04:43 AM
08/04/19 04:43 AM
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Posts: 1,651
Canberra, ACT, Australia
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Chris Leslie Offline
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Just a thought: Have the butt loops been previously replaced but they are far to long?


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2875919
08/04/19 08:59 AM
08/04/19 08:59 AM
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Posts: 2,606
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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Good point Chris. Had not thought of that one.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: Chris Leslie] #2876046
08/04/19 03:18 PM
08/04/19 03:18 PM
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Posts: 18
France
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ulrichg Offline
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France
Originally Posted by Chris Leslie
Just a thought: Have the butt loops been previously replaced but they are far to long?


Is a bit what I pointed out when I wrote "You also may have to adapt the length and the angle of the spring before installing, with nose pliers for example". Too long for the loop, it won't do many strength. You must check the lenght and the angle. When the spring is "free" from the loop, and you push a little on it, he must return to above 90° from the shank, rule of thumb. By testing the springs this way you will test their resistance and aging as well : if you feel it like plastic, subject to break, change it

I do not have rule of thumb for the length, either I copy the old if it works and looks well, or I adapt

One must keep in mind that if he must reduce the length, he will add twists to the spring. If the twists are too thick, the spring won't enter the groove, he needs to remove ones twists by loosing the other part of the spring.

Last edited by ulrichg; 08/04/19 03:21 PM.

Ulrich Guillerm, Piano technician, owner

Ti Piano

France
Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: Chris Leslie] #2876597
08/06/19 02:12 AM
08/06/19 02:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 8
Miami, Florida
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cribeiroalexander Offline OP
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cribeiroalexander  Offline OP
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Miami, Florida
By the way everything in this piano is original from factory, its not going to be anymore though because i have to replace one spring, i broke one by mistake in the strengthening process, so one hammer is spring-less ): , but everything is looking good i resolved the issue that really bothered me a lot in my playing, i strengthened them a little bit more yesterday and repition has gotten better, trills now have better articulation, i tested it with Waltz in A minor and Fantaisie Impromptu and results are noticeable i wish i had a done a before and after and a tutorial. im sure im not the only one who had this problem. Im suprised the original owner did not notice this problem, or unless the original owner used it for a couple of years and probably stopped playing and neglected it, when i first got it many keys were sticking or had a very slow return and was almost a whole step out of tune, the solution was simple i bought the piano protek and lubricated all the key pins and balance rail pins and it fixed the problem. FYI: This piano is a Kingsburg KU109 Built in 1997

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: cribeiroalexander] #2876624
08/06/19 04:39 AM
08/06/19 04:39 AM
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Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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Nice website, ulrichg. Et encore, le Fujan!

Re: How to replace Hammer butt springs on asian type pianos [Re: David Boyce] #2876627
08/06/19 05:06 AM
08/06/19 05:06 AM
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ulrichg Offline
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France
Originally Posted by David Boyce
Nice website, ulrichg. Et encore, le Fujan!


Thanks David ! It's still work-in-progress grin


Ulrich Guillerm, Piano technician, owner

Ti Piano

France

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