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Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
bSharp(C)yclist #2874504 07/31/19 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
It looks like rach3master's setup, the classic mic perspective is being used. Does the upgrade from Lite to Full with ambient mics make a difference?


IMO, the ambient mics are THE main difference between Lite and Full. Ambient mics provide the most realistic reverb in any VST I've heard (because it IS real). I notice that Rach3Master actually uses the reverb module within CFX, but most of the people I've talked to don't even bother with reverb when using CFX full.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2874531 07/31/19 02:01 PM
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So, regarding playability, is the Garritan CFX playable at least as the internal sound of the Yamaha digital pianos? I mean, it's clear that the sound is better, but what is the feeling for the player? Digital pianos internal sounds are lacking in realism, compared with the best piano VST sounds, but they are very playable (no lag, you don't feel sudden changes of velocity layers, etc.). And the best thing to me is that you turn on the piano and after 2 seconds you can already play... You don't have to turn on a computer, wait for the full loading of the operating system, load a DAW, load a VST, etc...

It would be nice to build a mini-PC that you keep it permanently connected to your digital piano, so that you have just to power on the piano and the PC and then, after max 7-8 seconds, you can play with your preferred VST already configured with your best settings.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2874754 08/01/19 03:01 AM
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You need to have a good velociy curve to make Garritan CFX playable. After tweaking it, I don't feel much sudden changes of timbres. However, the pedal is lagging behind. As a comparison, I found the 2009 CFIIIS in the first generation AvantGrand a little bit more playable than Garritan CFX.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Harpuia #2874755 08/01/19 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
You need to have a good velociy curve to make Garritan CFX playable. After tweaking it, I don't feel much sudden changes of timbres. However, the pedal is lagging behind. As a comparison, I found the 2009 CFIIIS in the first generation AvantGrand a little bit more playable than Garritan CFX.

Have you tried my fix?


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Gombessa #2874762 08/01/19 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
It looks like rach3master's setup, the classic mic perspective is being used. Does the upgrade from Lite to Full with ambient mics make a difference?


IMO, the ambient mics are THE main difference between Lite and Full. Ambient mics provide the most realistic reverb in any VST I've heard (because it IS real). I notice that Rach3Master actually uses the reverb module within CFX, but most of the people I've talked to don't even bother with reverb when using CFX full.



In my opinion the player mic positions in the full version are the best when using headphones. For me, that and the ambient mics are both important reasons to have the full version.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Harpuia #2874835 08/01/19 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
You need to have a good velociy curve to make Garritan CFX playable.

Following an informal poll and the stated settings of PW members, it seems that most people here are keeping "velocity curve" at default and "dynamic range" in roughly the 70% to 90% range (rach3master runs her nice recordings at 100%).

Originally Posted by Harpuia
As a comparison, I found the 2009 CFIIIS in the first generation AvantGrand a little bit more playable than Garritan CFX.

Some Yamaha dealers hinted that the AvantGrand runs more than the standard 128 velocity layers (say 1024); I have seen some dealer videos on YouTube but have never seen any sold evidence. I don't know if more velocity layers matter. PianoTeq can run HD velocity layers with a few keyboards; I haven't seen many people claiming Pianoteq's extended velocity layers improved playability.

The AvantGrand's dedicated on-board electronics could very well out-perform a MIDI computer VI system. It is entirely possible Yamaha sends out a slower, serial signal to your computer; that could be limited by the serial MIDI protocol and speed limitations of the old 5-pin DIN cable and/or USB protocol, etc.)

You have some good tools to tweak VI performance (velocity curve, dynamic range, reduce latency (maybe with good ASIO drivers, a decent audio interface, small buffers, a fast computer (fast CPU and decent SSD)).

For reference, Philip Johnston has some nice piano recordings; he plays and records using the AvantGrand N3 on-board sounds. However, the sounds we hear are MIDI recordings played through Garritan CFX; he has posted his Garritan settings at PW.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2874993 08/01/19 06:06 PM
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My new video featuring the Garritan CFX:


Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2875774 08/03/19 05:47 PM
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I would love to hear a comparison using the same MIDI of Garritan CFX and the latest Pianoteq Bechstein(it uses their latest tech).

Does anyone have them both and could help us on this? It would be great to hear them side by side.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2875784 08/03/19 06:12 PM
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I'm happy to say that with the release of VSL Synchron Pianos my continuous quest for the best has finally been put to rest. Pianoteq 7 or 8 is what I might test.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2875882 08/04/19 04:38 AM
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+1 Ravenscroft 275
+1 Pianoteq

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2875909 08/04/19 07:20 AM
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1) D-274 VSL Synchron Pianos
2) Yamaha CFX VSL Synchron Pianos
3) Garritan CFX
4) American D Ivory II or Ravenscroft 275

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2875979 08/04/19 11:41 AM
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Grandeur
Vintage D
Kawai EX Pro
I'm not sure where to place the Garritan CFX on my list. I've only had it for a week, and I've not had much time to spend with it yet.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2875981 08/04/19 11:49 AM
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I just ordered Garritan CFX (full) based on recordings I’ve heard from members of this forum, which I thought were pretty impressive. Looking forward to trying it out.


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
MacMacMac #2875985 08/04/19 11:58 AM
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Update ... To put my list in perspective I should point out that I have many more virtual instruments.
On which I've spent too much money, only to toss them into the bin.
This was only a list of what I use today:
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The Grandeur
Vintage D
Kawai EX Pro
I'm not sure where to place the Garritan CFX on my list. I've only had it for a week, and I've not had much time to spend with it yet.

Here's a list of ones that I'm not using anymore.
The list is incomplete, though, because I've binned some, and I cannot remember the names.
Also there were many online freebies made by non-professionals that were utterly forgettable, and are not listed here.

This is NOT a list of crap pianos. Some of these are quite good. (But many are stinkers.)
Native Instruments Berlin Concert Grand
Galaxy Vienna Grand
Galaxy II Steinway
The Gentleman
The Giant
The Maverick
Fazioli Ebony Concert Grand
Ivory 1 (Steinway, Bosie, Fazioli, Yamaha)
Garritan CFX Concert Grand
Old Black Grand
Galaxy Steinway
Native Instruments New York Concert Grand
8DIO 1969 Legacy Piano
8DIO 1928 Steinway
8DIO 1929 Legacy Piano
Pianoteq 2,3,4,5,6 (free demos)
CinePiano Steinway
Imperfect Samples Steinway Walnut Grand
Imperfect Samples Old Black Grand Pleyl
Imperfect Samples White Baby Grand
Imperfect Samples Fazioli Ebony Concert Grand
4Front TruePianos
Art Vista Virtual Grand Piano
Sound Magic Piano1
Sound Magic Imperial Grand
Sound Magic Thor
Salamander Piano
Summer Piano
Ivy Audio Piano in 162
Cinesamples Piano in Blue
Alicia's Keys

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2876106 08/04/19 06:56 PM
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@MacMacMac do you own Ivory II or American Concert D? I think those are still respectable choices today, especially the American Concert D, in terms of playability. But granted, they don't cut it anymore when it comes to sound quality and pedal down samples and multiple mics etc..

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
Chordo24 #2876122 08/04/19 07:51 PM
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I never bought Ivory II nor the American D. My initial experience with Ivory was version 1. All four of the pianos in Ivory 1 were WAAAAY better than my Clav's piano sound.
But after finding other, much better virtual instruments I was no longer keen to own the Ivory line. So I never bought Ivory 2. (The Ilok was also a turn-off.)

As for the American D ... I already own too many Steinways.

I'd be more interested in a better Fazioli. Mine is the Ivory 1, and it is dry and lacking in soul ... which I thought was its nature, until I heard a YT video of a Faz. Now I know better.

I could use a better Bosendorfer, too. I have the Ivory 1 Bosie, and the much better Galaxy Vienna Grand. But I want better still. smile

I've just bought the Garritan CFX. I need to spend more time with it. But I think that it (plus the Kawai EX Pro) will satisfy my need for Japanese pianos.

Re: Which VST is best to buy NOW?
MacMacMac #2876591 08/06/19 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Update ... To put my list in perspective I should point out that I have many more virtual instruments.


Very good point MacMacMac. Mentioning one's favorite VST makes most sense if we know which ones they are compared with.


Yamaha P-115 -> Kawai CA-58 -> Kawai K-300 ATX3
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