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Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874660 07/31/19 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DiarmuidD

I've travelled to many continents and experienced many cultures. That is why I do not engage in lazy cultural and moral relativism. I do not regard my own opinion as infallible, yet I do have strong opinions. Those things are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. I think you lack context and a certain respect for decency. Go figure.

So, to go back to my rhetorical question - you think your opinion is the only possible and correct one? grin

And you're now attacking me too? smirk


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: bennevis] #2874662 07/31/19 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD

I've travelled to many continents and experienced many cultures. That is why I do not engage in lazy cultural and moral relativism. I do not regard my own opinion as infallible, yet I do have strong opinions. Those things are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. I think you lack context and a certain respect for decency. Go figure.

So, to go back to my rhetorical question - you think your opinion is the only possible and correct one? grin

And you're now attacking me too? smirk


Did you actually read what I said? I have liked many of your posts in the past but I think you need to read what I actually posted and alter your reply.

Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874664 07/31/19 06:19 PM
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As an Aussie, I have been following this thread with amusing interest!
I find it interesting and predictable that the style of one individual's communication can quickly be generalised into the cultural stereotype of a whole nation! The cultural behaviour of Australians is as diverse as the entire world or any other nation for that matter.

While I understand where Wayne is coming from, I agree that his method of delivery would have left me, as an Australian a bit upset, This has nothing to do with culture, and all to do with the individual circumstance.

A visitor to this country can have their impression flavoured by the few interactions they have with a limited number of residents. It is human nature to go away with the generalisation that all its citizens must view the world this way. As with all statistics, the greater the sample, the more accurate the data. As far as Bennevis's comments, the "too big for their boots" phrase, is probably related to a very common phenomenom we call "the tall poppy syndrome". This came about because Australia has historically been one of the most egalitarian society s in the world, peaking around mid last century. It is frowned upon if an individual or corporation becomes too large at the expense of everyone else or without genuine toil. Also Crocodile Dundee is as stereotypical as defining US culture by watching Hollywood movies! The softly softly approach is part of who I am, and the only people around me whom I care to share my life with. I believe there are just the same proportion of arrogant personalities in this country as any other.

Last edited by Deltajockey; 07/31/19 06:21 PM.

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Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874665 07/31/19 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DiarmuidD
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD

I've travelled to many continents and experienced many cultures. That is why I do not engage in lazy cultural and moral relativism. I do not regard my own opinion as infallible, yet I do have strong opinions. Those things are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. I think you lack context and a certain respect for decency. Go figure.

So, to go back to my rhetorical question - you think your opinion is the only possible and correct one? grin

And you're now attacking me too? smirk


Did you actually read what I said? I have liked many of your posts in the past but I think you need to read what I actually posted and alter your reply.

Actually, your last sentence in your previous post is precisely what my reply is directed at.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: bennevis] #2874667 07/31/19 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD

I've travelled to many continents and experienced many cultures. That is why I do not engage in lazy cultural and moral relativism. I do not regard my own opinion as infallible, yet I do have strong opinions. Those things are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think. I think you lack context and a certain respect for decency. Go figure.

So, to go back to my rhetorical question - you think your opinion is the only possible and correct one? grin

And you're now attacking me too? smirk


Did you actually read what I said? I have liked many of your posts in the past but I think you need to read what I actually posted and alter your reply.

Actually, your last sentence in your previous post is precisely what my reply is directed at.




Ok let me spell it out for you. When I said I do not regard my opinion as infallible that means I do not think my opinion is the only correct opinion possible. Look it up and stop being incorrectly pedantic. And when I said I think you lack decency in this matter I mean exactly that.

Last edited by DiarmuidD; 07/31/19 06:29 PM.
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874668 07/31/19 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DiarmuidD


Ok let me spell it out for you. .......... Look it up and stop being incorrectly pedantic. And when I said I think you lack decency in this matter I mean exactly that.

You're being rude now. Maybe you don't even realize it.

Think about it......... grin


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: bennevis] #2874670 07/31/19 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD


Ok let me spell it out for you. .......... Look it up and stop being incorrectly pedantic. And when I said I think you lack decency in this matter I mean exactly that.

You're being rude now. Maybe you don't even realize it.

Think about it......... grin


Oh the lady doth protest too much. You who defended such rudeness, now the accuser?

Last edited by DiarmuidD; 07/31/19 06:35 PM.
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874672 07/31/19 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DiarmuidD
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD


Ok let me spell it out for you. .......... Look it up and stop being incorrectly pedantic. And when I said I think you lack decency in this matter I mean exactly that.

You're being rude now. Maybe you don't even realize it.

Think about it......... grin


Oh the lady doth protest too much. You who defended such rudeness, now the accuser?

Me, a lady? grin


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: bennevis] #2874674 07/31/19 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD


Ok let me spell it out for you. .......... Look it up and stop being incorrectly pedantic. And when I said I think you lack decency in this matter I mean exactly that.

You're being rude now. Maybe you don't even realize it.

Think about it......... grin


Oh the lady doth protest too much. You who defended such rudeness, now the accuser?

Me, a lady? grin


In my haste I paraphrased Shakespeare. My apologies smile

Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874678 07/31/19 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DiarmuidD


In my haste I paraphrased Shakespeare. My apologies smile

No need to apologize.

The Bard is always welcome in any forum, any thread. thumb

Anyway, our little 'spat' has provided an entertaining diversion for PW readers cool.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: bennevis] #2874679 07/31/19 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by DiarmuidD


In my haste I paraphrased Shakespeare. My apologies smile

No need to apologize.

The Bard is always welcome in any forum, any thread. thumb

Anyway, our little 'spat' has provided an entertaining diversion for PW readers cool.



This is true. I had no idea this thread would get so lively. All the best too you sir, you have been a gentlemen on this forum for many years smile

Last edited by DiarmuidD; 07/31/19 07:00 PM.
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: sroreilly] #2874693 07/31/19 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sroreilly
Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
All of you sound like something terribly bad would happen if James got his hands on one of Stuart's pianos...well, as far as I know, we live in democracy (not sure about down there, but here in the US we definitely do) and nobody, not even a manufacturer, can tell anyone "you can NOT review my piano". Now let's rephrase what you just said in a sighty different way...

Since he's not an expert on movies, his review of this movie can pose potential problems for the movie maker, no, it's he has every right not wanting his movie to be reviewed by this youtuber.
Since he's not a pro gamer, his review of this videogame can pose potential problems for the game maker. No, we shouldn't allow him to play this game.
Since he's not a pro racer, his review of this car can pose potential problems for the car manufacturer. No, it wouldn't be wise to allow him to drive this car.

Whether you like it or not, we live in a free world where people can do what they want, as long as they don't break laws. If Stuart didn't want his piano to be reviewed, he shouldn't've let it out of the assembly line. Stuart's hissy tantrum might only hinder the review, but James might eventually find a willing owner anyway. What will Mr. Stuart do then? Show up at the owner's house and threathen him not to make the review?



I think there are some misinterpretations here. In his letter, Stuart makes clear three things:
1) all his pianos in the US are privately owned and he cannot guarantee any access to them
2) he has issues with the James' YouTube channel and quality of "reviews"
and
3) If he were to address these issues, he might be willing to put effort into helping James find one of his pianos to review

He never says anything to the extent, "you can't review one of my pianos even if you were to find one" or imply that he would take any action against James reviewing one of his pianos.

To be quite honest, if James had found one of his pianos before this event, I am most certain he would have given it a rave review. Looking through his reviews, the obvious trend is that pianos are reviewed to be better by him in direct correlation with the price tag on said piano. In other words, he just assumes the more expensive pianos are better. Following this trend, a Stuart and Sons Piano would undoubtedly be given much praise.


Misinterpretation? Label me ignorant but if the first words that someone used to describe me were mole rat and moocher I’m pretty sure he’s saying he just doesn’t like me.

But who knows maybe James should look on the bright side like Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber. Stuart did say if the format changed maybe they would talk. So perhaps he still has a chance!



Last edited by Jethro; 07/31/19 07:55 PM.

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Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: Jethro] #2874704 07/31/19 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jethro
But who knows maybe James should look on the bright side like Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber.

His reviews remind me of Lloyd as well! thumb


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Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: jeffscot] #2874707 07/31/19 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffscot
Originally Posted by Jethro
But who knows maybe James should look on the bright side like Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber.

His reviews remind me of Lloyd as well! thumb

grin ha



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: Jethro] #2874743 08/01/19 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Jethro


Misinterpretation? Label me ignorant but if the first words that someone used to describe me were mole rat and moocher I’m pretty sure he’s saying he just doesn’t like me.

But who knows maybe James should look on the bright side like Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber. Stuart did say if the format changed maybe they would talk. So perhaps he still has a chance!




I'm afraid that, again, you are misinterpreting. The letter reads that the pianos in the states are owned privately and thusly not available to mole raths (not rats, by the way) and moochers, and then reads something to the effect, as you may appreciate. Mr. Stuart's English does not ever call James either of these things but states rather that he expects James would appreciate the fact that as these instruments are privately owned they are not made publicly available to "people who are attracted to shiny things" or "people who make use of things that are not theirs". I think those are fair approximations for "more raths" and "moochers".

NOTE: I wanted to quote the letter plainly, but I can no longer find where the youtuber posted it. Perhaps he removed it?

Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: sroreilly] #2874746 08/01/19 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sroreilly
Originally Posted by Jethro


Misinterpretation? Label me ignorant but if the first words that someone used to describe me were mole rat and moocher I’m pretty sure he’s saying he just doesn’t like me.

But who knows maybe James should look on the bright side like Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber. Stuart did say if the format changed maybe they would talk. So perhaps he still has a chance!




I'm afraid that, again, you are misinterpreting. The letter reads that the pianos in the states are owned privately and thusly not available to mole raths (not rats, by the way) and moochers, and then reads something to the effect, as you may appreciate. Mr. Stuart's English does not ever call James either of these things but states rather that he expects James would appreciate the fact that as these instruments are privately owned they are not made publicly available to "people who are attracted to shiny things" or "people who make use of things that are not theirs". I think those are fair approximations for "more raths" and "moochers".

NOTE: I wanted to quote the letter plainly, but I can no longer find where the youtuber posted it. Perhaps he removed it?

Interesting - the letter has been removed (it was never there in full - no header or footer, just the middle part - nor did he publish his email request, he just read part of it).

James needs to do himself a favour and remove the entire YouTube video - like some CarReview YouTubers - when they start making disagreeable posts - they lose all credibility.

Personally - I wouldn't "SUBSCRIBE" to James - but I'd buy a Stuart & Sons piano in a heartbeat.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874756 08/01/19 02:08 AM
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Both letters are still there as posted 4 days ago.

Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: DiarmuidD] #2874758 08/01/19 02:18 AM
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Can't believe this is still going on !
I think young James should join PW. You do not
know me James .,But I shall stand up for you !

Re: For anyone that likes a good internet spat... [Re: pianoloverus] #2874759 08/01/19 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by JJHLH
Valentina Lisitsa is amazing! Imagine someone declining her application to play at a nursing home recital. This piece alone has nearly 10 million views. https://youtu.be/4QB7ugJnHgs
No one said they declined because they didn't think she was good enough.

Any comparison between Lisitsa and James makes little sense to me. She was an accomplished pianist long before she became popular but James is far from an expert on pianos. While I enjoy his enthusiasm, I feel he thinks he knows a lot more about pianos than he actually does.

Well show us a youtube of you playing Fantasy Impromptu!
Come on Pianoloverus show us !!! Let us finally see how well you play !!?

Come with us troll hunting.... [Re: Skjalg] #2874760 08/01/19 02:38 AM
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As many folk on these fora will know, I have owned a Stuart & Sons piano for a number of years. Having followed and participated in discussions on and around contemporary piano development, it has become clear to me and to others I have communicated with that there are two extremes of responses to any given conversation, whether in private (such as email) or via a public platform.

1. The first may be characterised by thoughtful and intellectually rigorous (and often vigorous!) arguments and points of view which help us to delve deeper into the subject and subsequently enrich views and knowledge.
2. The second may be characterised by a knee-jerk response which ignores the subject of the discussion and simply aims to assert the responder’s point of view no matter what the arguments may present.

There are many folk exploring what I might call the piano principle – in other words, what does the piano ‘mean’ in both a technical and musical context and how does this relate to the 21st century? This has been brilliantly brought out by Dr Ziad Kreidy (www.ziadkreidy.com) who published his “Keys to the Piano” - a bilingual edition of 20 essays written by contemporary thinkers and experts on matters piano, including some who are known to and contribute to these fora. Although not mentioned in this book specifically, one of the big problems that has subsequently come out of this is the realisation of the potential of the internet in general to influence and manipulate views to reflect either the ‘knee-jerk’ response or else to protect vested interests. It is telling that many of the contributors to Dr Kreidy’s book work independently of mainstream piano manufacturers.

Subsequent to the release of Keys to the Piano, Wayne Stuart discussed with me the need to develop a thesis, as a sequel to it, on the role of social media platforms in piano related topics.

A few days ago he received an enquiry from a James Pavel Shawcross seeking the private contact details of owners of his pianos in the US for review on his personal, cult based, YouTube postings. He had been informed by a third party of the general location of such instruments. He invited Stuart to view his YouTube postings. Not surprisingly, Stuart was less than impressed with the caliber and quality of the reviews and the delivery format. Which I might add, I’m of a similar opinion which also, seems to be shared by others in this PW thread unlike the almost universal condemnation of Stuart’s frank rebuttal on Shawcross’ YouTube channel. The almost immediate call to arms by Shawcross to his loyal troll henchmen swamped the YouTube thread with gratuitous condemnation of Stuart’s right of reply. The stance to protect the Guru at all costs was predictable and particularly odious.

So we decided to have some fun bearing in mind the need for evidenced based research for the proposed thesis. We would test a theory that the majority of people who followed this (and maybe other) site(s) would be more inclined towards the knee-jerk reaction option referred to earlier.

Thus, we decided to go troll hunting.

We couched Wayne’s access rebuttal to James Pavel Shawcross in such a way as to make it clear why he was rejecting the approach, but to add appropriate language in such a manner that the trolls would take umbrage and only see that language and not the point behind it.

Did we get the response we anticipated? Yes, we did. Firstly, a private email was printed in full on YouTube. This is a clear violation of the most basic of netiquette rules. Then, the trolls came out in force. Some private and outrageously crazy emails were fielded and appropriately responded to. And then, it pops up here on PianoWorld. And the same thing occurred, although more people in this forum being a non Shawcross troll cohort, have been able to see through the wording and get the point of Stuart’s response. Also, they have acknowledged the humour therein.

So we have achieved what we set out to achieve. We teased out the trolls. I would like to thank everyone for participating in our experiment. It has actually been very rewarding in a number of ways, not the least of which is the possibility of further academic work to investigate the forces that have to be surmounted in the globalised music industry to be successful in the digital age and the rise of social media demigods and trolls, i.e. fake news. President of the USA Donald Trump Esq.

Regards
Chris


Stuart & Sons 2.2 metre #25
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